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Jesus was not crusified!

Blindinglight

Disciple of Chaos
It is Historical fact that Hitler was a lunatic, a crazy man. He did not practice the spirit of Christ. INstead he hated Jesus Christ's own people and sought to kill them. What isdisgusting is that the Catholic Church at this time was anti-sematic as well...but that does not mean they were doing the will of God. God simply allowed it.

Hitler killed out of bigatry, and racism. He killed for land, and for ethnic and religious cleansing.
It is historically speculated Hitler had Parkinsons, but not a lunatic. If you study his methods and speaches, he actually was a very intelligent person, and was blessed with a silver tongue.
How do you KNOW that he didn't accept Jesus? How do you KNOW he didn't pray to God for guidance? How do you KNOW he never said "Jesus, I am a sinner, please forgive me."? Being a lunatic, mad man, insane, or anything else like that does not mean you cannot accept a religion for your own.
Hitler sought to wipe out more than the Jews. The Gypsies was another group he targeted.

Did God kill mroe than Hitler?
Your own Bible will show this question to be answered as a yes.

God has the right to take the lives of his own creation. That does not justify the wars we wage, or that God wants us to kill each other.
I suppose if you create, you can destroy it, but don't you think such harsh actions are necessary? To kill everyone but Noah and his family just because they don't meet his expectations? To completly destroy two cities for being immoral? For Ordering the anhilations of various tribes, down to the last child? I do not see this as a God who loves and is merciful.
 

JayHawes

Active Member
It is historically speculated Hitler had Parkinsons, but not a lunatic. If you study his methods and speaches, he actually was a very intelligent person, and was blessed with a silver tongue.
How do you KNOW that he didn't accept Jesus? How do you KNOW he didn't pray to God for guidance? How do you KNOW he never said "Jesus, I am a sinner, please forgive me."? Being a lunatic, mad man, insane, or anything else like that does not mean you cannot accept a religion for your own.
Hitler sought to wipe out more than the Jews. The Gypsies was another group he targeted.


Your own Bible will show this question to be answered as a yes.


I suppose if you create, you can destroy it, but don't you think such harsh actions are necessary? To kill everyone but Noah and his family just because they don't meet his expectations? To completly destroy two cities for being immoral? For Ordering the anhilations of various tribes, down to the last child? I do not see this as a God who loves and is merciful.

When God was loving and merciful those people chose to object him, to ignore him, and to worship their own and do their own thing. It is not that God is not merciful and loving but he is also a Judge, and a just God. And he gave to those people just what they deserved. He told them to do something, he allowed them out of free will to choose to serve him, and they didn't. They reaped the resutls. Becuase they brought it on themselves. Just as you and I must make the same choice. God will make a judgement, and you can accpet his mercy and grace and love and follow him. Or you can rebel and face his vengence, either way. You'll pay for your actions and choices.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
The Qur'an is using different metaphors to say the same thing as the Gospel.

The Spirit went to God, and the flesh is immaterial.

Regards,
Scott
 

JayHawes

Active Member
The Qur'an is using different metaphors to say the same thing as the Gospel.

The Spirit went to God, and the flesh is immaterial.

Regards,
Scott

No, They view the Holy Spirit as being Gabriel. While Christians view the Holy SPirit as the third person of trinity, the presense of God. There is no way to allegorically reconcile these, both cannot be right, becuase the Holy Spirit is not an angel.
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
Where did the body of Jesus go then, if it did not return to God? I am sure that the followers would have known where the body was at?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
No, They view the Holy Spirit as being Gabriel. While Christians view the Holy SPirit as the third person of trinity, the presense of God. There is no way to allegorically reconcile these, both cannot be right, becuase the Holy Spirit is not an angel.

No, they view Gabriel as the Messenger of God to Muhammad.

The "Holy Spirit" is the bounty of God,, in which all Creation is immersed. You can no more escape the Holy Spirit's presence than you can wink yourself outof existence.

The Holy Spirit of God is what caused Creation and it is what maintains Creation from instant to instant.

By the way, there are Christians in the world who are NOT Trinitarian.

Regards,
Scott
 

lew0049

CWebb
It is historically speculated Hitler had Parkinsons, but not a lunatic. If you study his methods and speaches, he actually was a very intelligent person, and was blessed with a silver tongue.
How do you KNOW that he didn't accept Jesus? How do you KNOW he didn't pray to God for guidance? How do you KNOW he never said "Jesus, I am a sinner, please forgive me."? Being a lunatic, mad man, insane, or anything else like that does not mean you cannot accept a religion for your own.
Hitler sought to wipe out more than the Jews. The Gypsies was another group he targeted.


Your own Bible will show this question to be answered as a yes.


I suppose if you create, you can destroy it, but don't you think such harsh actions are necessary? To kill everyone but Noah and his family just because they don't meet his expectations? To completly destroy two cities for being immoral? For Ordering the anhilations of various tribes, down to the last child? I do not see this as a God who loves and is merciful.

And how do you know Hitler's faith/lack thereof is not in line with yours?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Hitler was probably a Sociopath, but that does not equal 'lunatic'.
It might have been Parkinsons and it might not. He did not develop problems with his hand until after the bomb blast that nearly killed him in 1944. It could well have been the result of skull trauma.

Regards,
Scott
 

lew0049

CWebb
Okay it is not possible to believe in both the Bible and the Quran... I have been reading some of the Quran today and other writings and here are a FEW big differences - I would write more but I'm leaving in 10 minutes.

Although most of what the Quran teaches is loving each other and peace, the Quran gives people perfect justification is killing others for self defense, and at other times more. There are numerous passages in Suras that state this, to name a FEW: 2:190-193, 8:12-14, 7:96-99, 9:38-41. There are many more is Suras. It is important to know that is many english translation to "fight" means to kill in Arabic. Additionally over 10% of the Bukhari Hadiths mentions jihad or holy war. You can even look at Mohammad when he became a leader in the city of Medina - personally he led ATLEAST 27 invasions.
Okay, as far as the Bible is concerned, there is violence in the Old Testament, for example the Israelites killing the inhabitants of the Canaan. Nevertheless, there is a BIG difference in this example as the Bible clearly states that the people in Canaan deserved to die b/c of evil deeds such as child sacrifice. Later in Jeremiah, God serves punishment against the Israelites as well for there evil practice.

Now, when you read the differences regarding this, the Bible states that each of the circumstances to kill was in a limited time frame, and a specific reason given by God. This is far different than in the Quran where there are GENERAL commands to kill - enemies of Islam at any time and any place. You can even look at the differences when Jesus is quotes in the NT - he is 100% loving and never promotes violence in any way.
The Bible says turn your other cheek or love your enemies whereas the Quran even states not to be friends with Christians or Jews (Suras 3:118, 64, 5:51, 6-:1-3)
The Bible says to give charity to people outside of your faith whereas the Quran says to give charity to only Muslims.

I am only writing this to show some differences in the Bible and Quran and not to offend an Islams :)

Good quote I ran across -

Jesus warned, "The time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God" (John 16:2-4).
 

benign6

Member
No, They view the Holy Spirit as being Gabriel. While Christians view the Holy SPirit as the third person of trinity, the presense of God. There is no way to allegorically reconcile these, both cannot be right, becuase the Holy Spirit is not an angel.
Term Spirit has been used in bible to decribe Angels.
Term Holy Spirit describes Angel who used to bring Message of God to Prophets:-

It was same Holy Spirit that revealed God’s message to Moses.= ISAIAH 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?


Same holy Spirit brought message to Muhammad.(Quran:16:102 Say, the holy Spirit has brought revelation from your God is truth, in order to strenghten those who believe and as a guide and good news to Muslims)

===================================================
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52706
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Okay it is not possible to believe in both the Bible and the Quran... I have been reading some of the Quran today and other writings and here are a FEW big differences - I would write more but I'm leaving in 10 minutes.

Although most of what the Quran teaches is loving each other and peace, the Quran gives people perfect justification is killing others for self defense, and at other times more. There are numerous passages in Suras that state this, to name a FEW: 2:190-193, 8:12-14, 7:96-99, 9:38-41. There are many more is Suras. It is important to know that is many english translation to "fight" means to kill in Arabic. Additionally over 10% of the Bukhari Hadiths mentions jihad or holy war. You can even look at Mohammad when he became a leader in the city of Medina - personally he led ATLEAST 27 invasions.
Okay, as far as the Bible is concerned, there is violence in the Old Testament, for example the Israelites killing the inhabitants of the Canaan. Nevertheless, there is a BIG difference in this example as the Bible clearly states that the people in Canaan deserved to die b/c of evil deeds such as child sacrifice. Later in Jeremiah, God serves punishment against the Israelites as well for there evil practice.

Now, when you read the differences regarding this, the Bible states that each of the circumstances to kill was in a limited time frame, and a specific reason given by God. This is far different than in the Quran where there are GENERAL commands to kill - enemies of Islam at any time and any place. You can even look at the differences when Jesus is quotes in the NT - he is 100% loving and never promotes violence in any way.
The Bible says turn your other cheek or love your enemies whereas the Quran even states not to be friends with Christians or Jews (Suras 3:118, 64, 5:51, 6-:1-3)
The Bible says to give charity to people outside of your faith whereas the Quran says to give charity to only Muslims.

I am only writing this to show some differences in the Bible and Quran and not to offend an Islams :)

Good quote I ran across -

Jesus warned, "The time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God" (John 16:2-4).

And thousands of Crusaders set o0ut for the Holy land guaanteed by their clerical leaders that God justified that war.

By your reasoning the army under Charles Martel was not justified to defend Christendom against Islam at the Battle of Tours.

Regards,
Scott
 

lew0049

CWebb
And thousands of Crusaders set o0ut for the Holy land guaanteed by their clerical leaders that God justified that war.

By your reasoning the army under Charles Martel was not justified to defend Christendom against Islam at the Battle of Tours.

Regards,
Scott

That is not relevant to my point. Even if it was, it was a specific and limited instance, different from that of the Quran. I addressed this in the post.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"That is not relevant to my point. Even if it was, it was a specific and limited instance, different from that of the Quran. I addressed this in the post."

That means that war is sometimes justified? From a christian point of view? Is that what you are saying?

Regards,
Scott
 

JayHawes

Active Member
God many times backs up Israel during their wars. So are their just wars? Yes. Is there any good war though? I say no. Men may be justified in whatever they may be fighting for, whether right or wrong, whether for the rich or poor, whether for religion or faith (thers a difference), whether for King or people. This is not a Christian view, it is a human view, a human view influenced by logic. Was WWII justified? I'm sure it was for the allies who had a just cause for wanting to end the war, and regain peace. For Hitler, was it just? It just depends on whether or not we observe his motives. As for wars concering Islam, was it just? Not saying this becuse i am Christian but i think not. Umar had not right to force religion on people. Was Mohammed just at attcking Mecca, maybe he was. But is any war fueled by relgion just? No, unless it is fuled by a true God, and for most in this world there is only one true God. Although man may become his own god in the fact that he serves himself first.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
God many times backs up Israel during their wars. So are their just wars? Yes. Is there any good war though? I say no. Men may be justified in whatever they may be fighting for, whether right or wrong, whether for the rich or poor, whether for religion or faith (thers a difference), whether for King or people. This is not a Christian view, it is a human view, a human view influenced by logic. Was WWII justified? I'm sure it was for the allies who had a just cause for wanting to end the war, and regain peace. For Hitler, was it just? It just depends on whether or not we observe his motives. As for wars concering Islam, was it just? Not saying this becuse i am Christian but i think not. Umar had not right to force religion on people. Was Mohammed just at attcking Mecca, maybe he was. But is any war fueled by relgion just? No, unless it is fuled by a true God, and for most in this world there is only one true God. Although man may become his own god in the fact that he serves himself first.

So war is sometimes just and proper.

Why is it a crime that Islam defines what is just war and what is not?

The Baha`i Faith specifies that it is up to man to establish an international tribunal where the security of all is guaranteed by all: A nation invanded must be aided by all the other nations.

It's called Collective Security in the human world.

As to Umar, I agree "Compulsion in religion is forbiddedn!" according to the Qur'an. Umar broke the law of Islam when he went out and forced conversions.

Largely Islam did not have to force conversions, and the Qur'an defines what the government may do justly.

I seenothing wrong with it.

Regards,
Scott
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
My Dear Fellows! My dear Christian Fellows….
I was also a Non Muslim, I have accepted Islam and I want to say all of you….
Is this verse is not enough for you?????
That The Jesus was not crucified, he is still alive and will come back and will remain till the end (means till Hereafter).

Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."



Why will he come back???
Because to tell you O people of creating misconception about the Jesus Christ.



Jesus was indeed crucified, He said so Himself! Believe the eye-witness accounts, not a false prophet who came 500 years later:

Matthew 26


1And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, 2Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Matthew 27:35
And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Matthew 28:5
And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mark 15:24
And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Mark 15:25
And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
Mark 16:6
And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Luke 23:33
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.

Luke 24:6-8 (King James Version)

6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. 8And they remembered his words,

Luke 24:20
And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
John 19:16
Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
John 19:18
Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
John 19:20
This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
John 19:23
Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
John 19:41
Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 4:10
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
2 Corinthians 13:4
For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
 

lew0049

CWebb
"That is not relevant to my point. Even if it was, it was a specific and limited instance, different from that of the Quran. I addressed this in the post."

That means that war is sometimes justified? From a christian point of view? Is that what you are saying?

Regards,
Scott


I am merely showing a major difference between the Quran and Bible. To be honest, I don't know if a war is ever justified. Nevertheless, Jesus said love everyone, even your enemies, yet the message found in the Quran is very different (see the quotes I mentioned earlier)
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I am merely showing a major difference between the Quran and Bible. To be honest, I don't know if a war is ever justified. Nevertheless, Jesus said love everyone, even your enemies, yet the message found in the Quran is very different (see the quotes I mentioned earlier)

Do you have any historical background on what the lands of Arabia were like culturally, religiously, and socially before the time of Muhammad?

If not, I would recommend the book Muhammad and the Course of Islam, by H. M. Balyuzi.

Mr. Balyuzi was not a muslim, but a baha`i and his skill as an historian is amazing. Anyway, it's a good reference, on Islamsince its inception and it provides a good basic knowledge of what pre-Muhammad Arabia was like--with its large colonies of Jews and Christians as well as pagans.

You can get it free as part of the Ocean Religious Resource Library at Ocean.org It includes basic texts and references for Christianity, Judaism, Baha`i, Sikh, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Buddhist, and Daoism/Confuscionism.

In the Baha`i part of the library Mr. Balyuzi's books can be downloaded and read.

Do some research about what the world of Arabia was like before Muhammad, and then judge them fruits His religion has borne.

Regards,
Scott
 

athanasius

Well-Known Member
My Dear Fellows! My dear Christian Fellows….
I was also a Non Muslim, I have accepted Islam and I want to say all of you….
Is this verse is not enough for you?????
That The Jesus was not crucified, he is still alive and will come back and will remain till the end (means till Hereafter).

Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."



Why will he come back???
Because to tell you O people of creating misconception about the Jesus Christ.


Jesus was not "crusified"!

My God don't you mean crucified?:yes:
 

summia

Scriptural reader
I hav got this material from the book name “ The Collegeville Bible commentary: Based on the new American Bible” by Roberrt J, kerris
In which Roberrt has clearly explains in detail that Jesus was not crucified at pages from 977 to 979.
Here is link…

http://books.google.com.pk/books?id=fJR0wYP12ZEC&dq=verses+from+the+bible+that+jesus+was+not+really+crucified&pg=PA977&ots=KYmSieExS6&sig=oxUwNa4HdcMyRwcgKK2M7zttU30&prev=http://www.google.com.pk/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dverses%2Bfrom%2Bthe%2Bbible%2Bthat%2Bjesus%2Bwas%2Bnot%2Breally%2Bcrucified%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3D&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1#PPA980,M1

Think ! is A non Muslim want to clearify the Muslims???
No! actullay Roberrt wants to clearfy the TRUTH....
 
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