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I Am Not Your Teacher

yuvgotmel

yuvgotmel

Well-Known Member
doppelgänger;848272 said:
Interesting. What do you make of the very next line, though: "Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."?

Also, he did tell Thomas three things out of earshot of the others? What do you think they might have been?
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By the way, doppelganger, thank you for posting this excellent thread...And most of all, thank you for reminding me of that verse.

What you are referring to is the same thing that I mentioned here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=838059&postcount=25

Jesus came as both Lucifer and the Enlightened.
“‘But the rulers stood in front of what they call the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which is actually the enlightened Afterthought. They stayed there so that Adam would not behold its fullness and thus discover Adam’s own shameful nakedness.

I was the one, though, who caused them to eat.’

I said to the Savior, ‘Lord, was it not the snake that instructed Adam to eat?’

The Savior laughed…”

~from “The Secret Book of John” Chapter 11, Verses 14~18
​
 
Pariah

Pariah

Let go
gracie said:
actually, it sounds like the intoxication is used as a positive allusion. Thomas is the one who has drunk from the "waters of eternal life"- Jesus chooses him to pull aside, not the others. Thomas seems to be understanding something about words and the Word. and with his final warning to the other disciples, something perhaps about the burning away of ego and self through those words- the disciples would react in anger, and the fire would consume them in reponse.
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I interpret similarly, but not completely. Yes, intoxication can used positively, in the sense that he is drunk on knowledge, but assuming this to be a Gnostic gospel, it could also be interpreted negatively. As in, Thomas has become drunk on the waters instead of also asserting himself as a valued means to Gnosis or enlightenment. Thomas is still a slave, still in bondage, if all he accepts are the teachers of "masters".

Halcyon said:
Thomas has understood Jesus's message, there is nothing more for Jesus to teach Thomas.
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Well said.

Sunstone said:
I have to agree with Doppleganger here. That's to say, I take the message of Thomas to be that the student has become the master -- a direct contradiction of the notion that only Jesus was the master. Not only for the reasons D cited earlier in this thread, but also because that line of thinking (i.e. that realization is possible for anyone) is more in line with the spirit of Gnosticism than is the notion that only Jesus is the master.
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As I stated above, being drunk can insinuate Thomas' love for knowledge and his dependence on it. Jesus probably told Thomas to do what he did, expound upon earlier ideas without removing them completely.

Halcyon said:
Their answers represent the three spiritual states of man - Hylic, Psychical and Pneumatic. Peter as the Hylic takes Jesus as face value, as a simple prophet. Matthew looks a little deeper into Jesus's message and sees him as a philosopher. Thomas sees deepest, see Jesus's true nature and as such is unable to describe what he sees, as Gnosis is indescribable.
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I thoroughly enjoyed this idea and interpretation. Gnosis, enlightenment, nirvana... are impossible to describe, and yet mystics of all traditions seem to understand each flawlessly. I wonder why.
 
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