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Problems at Church

JayHawes

Active Member
The traditional singing the psalms to chant is a beautiful experience that has sadly lapsed from most churches. People don't even understand pointing these days.

However the Psalms are actually a Jewish tradition But as they tend to only have a chanter these days. I don't think any one sings them in this fashion any more. " O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph."

A traditional Catholic Latin mass Is a Joy to witness.
As is a full sung Anglo Catholic Communion service.

It does not take clapping and an orchestra or dancing in the isles.
to create a joyous worship. Or to be inspired By Gods spirit.

But if that is what some people feel they need. so be it. amen.

Interesting:yes:
 

JayHawes

Active Member
Where do I begin? Every Sunday all you hear is how they're supposedly going to Heaven and how all other groups of people are supposedly going to Hell and how they want to oppress and conform people to become part of the collective mind that is their church. The whole time I keep thinking to myself "Who do you think you are?"

Not to mention if you're not an exact copy of them, they'll shun you. Or if you have a differing thought or opinion, they will harass you endlessly until you conform to their thinking. If you're different from them, they look down upon you and and consider themselves better. No thanks.


My faith has taken somewhat of a nose dive as of late. Church would be counter productive and a waste of mine and the pastor's time. I'd rather not be a hypocrite. Voicing my opinion would get me a ban or a forced withdrawl for sure.

Plus I don't feel the need to affiliate with any church to have a relationship with God. I can do that myself.

So do you suppose that there is more than one way to GOd? and that Eternal Salvation is false?....I do agree however that we as Christians cannot condemn anyone to hell, our commanded was to preach, not to tell people if you dont be Christian you're going to hell...whether or not its true :rolleyes:
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
JayHawes said:
So do you suppose that there is more than one way to GOd? and that Eternal Salvation is false?....
I certainly believe those things to be possible. What's in you heart, motives and intent are far more important than confesion of belief in my opinion.

JayHawes said:
I do agree however that we as Christians cannot condemn anyone to hell, our commanded was to preach, not to tell people if you dont be Christian you're going to hell...whether or not its true :rolleyes:
I agree.
 

Baerly

Active Member
I was just wondering, do any Christians here or anyone who visits a Christian Church have any problems with what their Church does, or what goes on in it, or maybe a question of doctrine?
Hi, NOPE I don't have any problem with doctrine. I belong to the church of Christ and doctrine is the law of Christ (Gal.6:1-3) (James 1:25). That law [ N.T.LAW] is not to be added to or subtracted from (Rev.22:18,19) (1Cor.4:6) ( Deut.4:2). So it [law] is set in stone, either we accept it or reject it (John 12:48).

We are not to teach any other doctrine (1Tim.1:3). If a person tells me there is many doctrines and it doesn't matter which we follow, I get very concerned because the devil is the one who has many doctrines, NOT CHRIST (1Tim.4:1).

Jesus told us to speak the same thing (1Cor.1:10) (Phil.3:16), so I know it can be done. Jesus also said, if we loved him we would obey his commandments (John 15:10,14) (1John 3:22-24). May we all have the strength to stand up and do just that.

missionprinting.us - and click on publications

in love, Baerly - (1Peter 4:11)
 

Baerly

Active Member
Theres nothing wrong with guitars or saxophones, those who play them, specialize at that instrument, and if they choose to praise God by playing that instrument (or dancing, or being joyous) why would any Christian object to it?

...................................................................
Heb 10:25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together:run: , as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

While I appreciate the O.T scriptures you posted, we are not governed by them (Heb.9:15). We are now under the N.T Law (Heb.8:6-13). This new and better law says nothing about playing an instrument in worship. The Lord did say pluck the heart (Eph.5:19). This we must do to be able to sing. The thought comes from the heart or mind, before it ever comes out the mouth.

When I read about how God dealt with Nadab and Abihu in (Lev.10:1-4),it concerns me greatly. The O.T does help us to understand about the relationship between man and God (1Cor.10:11) ( Rom.15:4). In fact the whole chapter of (1Cor.10) gets my attention. It teaches me to obey the Lord the way he said to do something,for the reason he said to do it,when he said to do it. I do not want to be a castaway (1Cor.9:27).

missionprinting.us - click on publications

in love, Baerly
 

Baerly

Active Member
I left my congregation over a year ago now. It seemed that many believed in WWJB (Who Would Jesus Bomb) and I just can't be a part of that. I have been to 20+ churches since then, but have not found a home. Go figure.

Scuba Pete, are you actually NetDoc? Just wondering,it said something like that on you posts.

I would like to be able to suggest some churches in your area if that would be possible.

I also would like to study the bible with you some. If this is possible,just let me know.

missionprinting.us - click on publications
Baerly
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I am NetDoc... Always will be. I flirted with a name change and I don't think it would work on my site: www.ScubaBoard.com.

Sure, send me some churches I should try.

As for Bible study, I am always open to that.
 

JayHawes

Active Member
While I appreciate the O.T scriptures you posted, we are not governed by them (Heb.9:15). We are now under the N.T Law (Heb.8:6-13). This new and better law says nothing about playing an instrument in worship. The Lord did say pluck the heart (Eph.5:19). This we must do to be able to sing. The thought comes from the heart or mind, before it ever comes out the mouth.

When I read about how God dealt with Nadab and Abihu in (Lev.10:1-4),it concerns me greatly. The O.T does help us to understand about the relationship between man and God (1Cor.10:11) ( Rom.15:4). In fact the whole chapter of (1Cor.10) gets my attention. It teaches me to obey the Lord the way he said to do something,for the reason he said to do it,when he said to do it. I do not want to be a castaway (1Cor.9:27).

missionprinting.us - click on publications

in love, Baerly

Although good thought, the verses I quoted were not law, they were confessions of people who praised God, and were experts at doing it. The Law, refers to the first 4 books of Moses. The Scriptures i quoted were of course from the Psalms ( All the books of the OT minus the Prophets and the Law). Never does Jesus Christ dismiss the claims in these books. Equally he says though:
Mt 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
 

Baerly

Active Member
Although good thought, the verses I quoted were not law, they were confessions of people who praised God, and were experts at doing it. The Law, refers to the first 4 books of Moses. The Scriptures i quoted were of course from the Psalms ( All the books of the OT minus the Prophets and the Law). Never does Jesus Christ dismiss the claims in these books. Equally he says though:
Mt 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Hi again, the Law of MOSES was given ONLY to the Jews according to (Ex.34:27,28).

Within those verses we learn that the law of Moses contained the 10 commandments.

So only Israelites were under the O.T.Law (or 10 Commandments).

The Gentiles continued under Patriarchal Law until (Acts 10).

Gentiles were never under the 10 commandments. People today are not under the 10 commandments. The reason being that Jesus fulfilled the O.T.Law and took it out of the way. (Heb.8:6-13) (2Cor.3) (Col.2:14-16) (Heb.9:15-17) (Eph.2:13-16).

Also the O.T.Law did not forgive sins (Heb.10:4).

Forgiveness is only found under the N.T.Law (Heb.8:12).

Jesus did restate some of the same principles again in the N.T Law. It is for this reason that we follow some of the same principles that was found in the O.T.Law. We follow them now because they are the commandments of The Lord (1Cor.14:37), [His New Testament will] (Heb.9:15-17].

When Paul makes the above statement he gives creedence to all scripture wrote by the apostles. What the apostles wrote was what Jesus spoke while living with them (John 14:26 ; 16:13) .

Baerly
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
You were doing SO WELL until you said this:
What the apostles wrote was what Jesus spoke while living with them
I triple dog dare you to support this scripturally. They wrote FAR MORE than what Jesus told them.

BTW, if you seek to be justified under ANY LAW, then Christ died for nothing! We don't need laws: we just need a new heart!
 

Baerly

Active Member
You were doing SO WELL until you said this:I triple dog dare you to support this scripturally. They wrote FAR MORE than what Jesus told them.

BTW, if you seek to be justified under ANY LAW, then Christ died for nothing! We don't need laws: we just need a new heart!
(2Peter 1:20,21) teaches us that Holy men wrote what the Spirit led them to write.

(John 14:26 ; 16:13) tells us that the Holy Spirit was to bring back to their remembrance all things whatsoever things the Lord said to the apostles.

(1Cor.14:37) teaches us that the things Paul wrote were the commandments of Jesus.

When we add all these things that happened in the above scriptures we learn that

1.God gave a message to Jesus (John 17:8).

2.Jesus gave the message to the apostles (John 17:8,14).

3.The Holy Spirit helped the apostles to remember that message and write it down after Jesus died (John 14:26 ; 16:13) (2Peter 1:20-21).

The apostle Paul said he taught the same message in every church (1Cor.4;7)

I truly do not think there is any evidence that the apostles wrote more than what Jesus said to them. If there is, I would like to know it.

About Law, the New Testment teaches if we obey the commandments of Jesus we will be obeying the LAW OF CHRIST (Gal.6:1,2).

The book of James tells us that we are to continue in the perfect LAW OF LIBERTY (James 1:25).

The LAW OF LIBERTY and the LAW OF CHRIST are one in the same. They are the New Testamnet Law.

If there is no law, there is NO SIN (1John 3:4). For sin is transgressing the Law.

If a person will read (Mt.7:23) they would find that the Lord was not pleased with those who [THOUGHT] they were without Law.

The New King James uses the word LAWLESSNESS for iniquities (Mt.7:23).

Just a few thoughts

Baerly
 

JayHawes

Active Member
Hi again, the Law of MOSES was given ONLY to the Jews according to (Ex.34:27,28).

Within those verses we learn that the law of Moses contained the 10 commandments.

So only Israelites were under the O.T.Law (or 10 Commandments).

The Gentiles continued under Patriarchal Law until (Acts 10).

Gentiles were never under the 10 commandments. People today are not under the 10 commandments. The reason being that Jesus fulfilled the O.T.Law and took it out of the way. (Heb.8:6-13) (2Cor.3) (Col.2:14-16) (Heb.9:15-17) (Eph.2:13-16).

Also the O.T.Law did not forgive sins (Heb.10:4).

Forgiveness is only found under the N.T.Law (Heb.8:12).

Jesus did restate some of the same principles again in the N.T Law. It is for this reason that we follow some of the same principles that was found in the O.T.Law. We follow them now because they are the commandments of The Lord (1Cor.14:37), [His New Testament will] (Heb.9:15-17].

When Paul makes the above statement he gives creedence to all scripture wrote by the apostles. What the apostles wrote was what Jesus spoke while living with them (John 14:26 ; 16:13) .

Baerly
This is not a dicussion about salvation. This is about intruments. I totally agree with most of what you said. as for the rest i'll adress later.
 
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