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Hell,a geographical destination,or a state of the mind
- Thread starter roli
- Start date
Beautiful,well said Joe ,I could'nt have said it better.
Could you explain what you mean by this statement
What is the english word for Tartarus, I've seen that word before,either in the greek or hebrew.
BFD_Zayl
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I cannot recall it.
MaddLlama
Obstructor of justice
Tartarus, as far as I know, is the Hellenic equivalent of Hell.
BFD_Zayl
Well-Known Member
'tis what i stated earlier.
The Great Architect
Active Member
I'm not fantasising about anything. I think, as humans, we are not supposed to fully comprehend these things. I'm not trying to gloss it over, or minimise how horrible hell must be.
I just think that we shouldn't get carried away or consumed by the threat of eternal damnation. All we can do as people is try to do the best we can with what we have in the here and now and take care of one another in the here and now. I am not going to allow my mind to be consumed by the threat of eternal damnation, or whatever you want to call it.
I believe in God and I am doing my best to fulfil my potential as a person. To do as much good as possible. I sincerely hope that is enough.
By the way, are you saying that people of different faiths will go to hell because they have not accepted Christ? I find that very difficult to swallow. I'm not accusing you, I just wanted to clear that up. I hope that doesn't sound angry, because I'm not trying to be. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Much respect to you both.
From NDE = Hell is below us and surrounding us, it is the lowest vibrational level or a single quantum strand (quarks).
This is what it looks like from scientific wording (that they understand so far, being universities and quantum scientist).....
Basically all is spirit as the American Indians did use to try and tell us……so remember next time you sit on that wooden stool, it was once a tree and the food was eaten by your family, who continued in the circle of life.:angel2:
By the way hell is also EGO (containing = blame, remorse, sorrow, regret, judgmentalness, fundamentalness, etc)….
Heaven is Oneness (Unconditional love, wisdom, faith)….
This is what it looks like from scientific wording (that they understand so far, being universities and quantum scientist).....
Basically all is spirit as the American Indians did use to try and tell us……so remember next time you sit on that wooden stool, it was once a tree and the food was eaten by your family, who continued in the circle of life.:angel2:
By the way hell is also EGO (containing = blame, remorse, sorrow, regret, judgmentalness, fundamentalness, etc)….
Heaven is Oneness (Unconditional love, wisdom, faith)….
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
It is wise to not gloss over the horror and permanency of Hell, but we should be concerned with our final, eternal abode.The Bible says:
Jude 1:23
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
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Just 'trying our best' or 'doing as much good as possible' is not good enough, for the Bible says:
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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You see, all the good things we do are worthless for salvation to a completely Holy God:
Romans 4:3-5 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
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We do not have to hope we have 'done enough good works', but we can know for sure we have eternal life in Heaven right now, that will never be taken away:
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
--------------------------------
You see then, that we are all sinners, the wages of sin is death, Christ died in our place paying for all the sins of all the world for all time, and if we believe in Him, that He did that for us, we HAVE eternal life and will never pass back into condemnation but ARE passed from death to life.
You asked if people of different faiths will go to Hell. It depends, God judges each person according to the light given them, He will not condemn one who has never heard, thus never rejected the Gospel. Each man has a conscience and the creation showing a Creator so is without excuse. Conscience means 'with knowledge'. We know when we do wrong, we know there is a God ofwhom we can ask forgiveness.
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
9That was the true Light(Jesus), which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 3
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
On the contrary, those in hell are suffering but are extinguishing their karma. They will eventually extinguish all the karma needed before they "die" there and are reborn in a higher realm.
One of the bodhisattvas in our beliefs named Ksitigarbha vows to stay in hell until all beings there are freed from their enormous sufferings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksitigarbha
Pretty cool.
Peace,
Mystic
Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 18:8
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Revelation 14:10-12
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So, what part about everlasting contempt, everlasting punishment, everlasting fire, everlasting destruction, and torment for ever and ever don't you understand?
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Luke 16
19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
I'm sorry you feel that way but God goes out of his way to reveal things that are hidden to the rest of the world ,but only to those who will trust him and believe him
God has revealed more to the Christian about the things of this world,God,heaven,hell,Jesus,death,life etc. then those people of the world, as christians we don't merely believe ,but we have things revealed to us by his spirit, if not I would have shaken this christianity like a bad habit,because I despise religion and all it's external works and efforts to appear righteous,it's empty.
You must read these verses :
1Cr 2:9 That is what the Scriptures mean when they say,
"No eye has seen, no ear has heard,and no mind has imagined
what God has prepared for those who love him." 10But we know these things because God has revealed them to us by his Spirit, and his Spirit searches out everything and shows us even God's deep secrets. 11 No one can know what anyone else is really thinking except that person alone, and no one can know God's thoughts except God's own Spirit. 12 And God has actually given us his Spirit (not the world's spirit) so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. 13 When we tell you this, we do not use words of human wisdom. We speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths. 14 But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means. 15 We who have the Spirit understand these things, but others can't understand us at all. 16 How could they? For,"Who can know what the Lord is thinking?Who can give him counsel?" But we can understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.
You must qualify to recieve this revealtion:
Jhn 14:21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Jhn 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
Jhn 16:15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
1Cr 2:12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Why,fear of other things in this world keep us safe and help us abstain from dangerous things that will harm us.,
You won't probably walk to close to the edge of a 25 storey building,why ,you value your present life, which by the way is very brief as it is ,nevertheless, you love your life and fear helps you preserve it.
People fear death,now I know there are some intellectually sound people out there who will not, for intellect sake and /or pride admit to that, but I beg to differ when death comes close, how many will change their position.
On paper and by word ,we sound very convincing,invincible almost strong by saying I don't fear death.but when it comes to your door, I am willing to bet ,your views change
Listen to this verse about death:
Hbr 2:14 Because God's children are human beings-made of flesh and blood-Jesus also became flesh and blood by being born in human form. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the Devil, who had the power of death. 15Only in this way could he deliver those who have lived all their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.
This is what he has done for the Christian,I personally know this first hand,I lived so close to the brink of death and was not so much afraid of dying ,as I was not knowing what is in the next life and maybe I was going to suffer for the bad things I have done.That was a conviction that brought me to God and know the peace I have is far greater than anything you can imagine.
Mind you there are thousands of phobia's that are merely people's over vivid imaginations .
To believ in God means to trust him, have confidence in ,to rely on him and his word snd based on that one recieves him
I know what you mean and many people do try to live life the best they can,but as far as God is concerned ,our good works are as filthy rags in his sight.
I mean if we could do anything that would merit God's favor ,Christ would not have had to come and christianity would be non existent.
As a Christian ,or prior to that, I realised ,that was the problem,I could'nt do enough to merit God's favor and no man can.
This is the confusion of many who point the finger at christians and say ,something like that, as if to say ,we are the one's making the claims, it's God who tells us these things and commands us to turn from our sin and follow him or suffer eternally for not accepting his sacrifice for sins in Jesus.
And to you
After looking at them posts, then also state of mind!!.....Mustard seeds??? = have your own words and stop being fake prophets Jeremiah 23 (quoting neighbours words). Continuously quoting is not acceptable in theological concepts, unless Biblical debate....
Also the fire is to come (With God/Christ/angels) as soon as we see all possibilities of teaching, those who follow Kali or Balaam (+ other names)…….
Also the fire is to come (With God/Christ/angels) as soon as we see all possibilities of teaching, those who follow Kali or Balaam (+ other names)…….
What makes a thing sacred is that it has a place in (is symbolically a part of) the story of how life comes into and goes out of being. That story exists within each of us. "Hell," the separation from "God," has a place in that story --adequately depicted in metaphorical imagry in Joeboonda's related anecdote above (flames of torment, burning tongue, gulf of separation, etc).
I don't abide by your Bible, sir, so your point is..........what? Are you trying to scare me into believing exactly what you believe, Roli?
Peace,
Mystic
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
That was my post actually--Joeboonda. Anyway no problem. I must go by the Bible as final authority, for the God of the Bible alone knows the future, and has prophesied many events in detail that happenned just as He said they would. I believe the words of Jesus and His warnings of Hell and His free provision of complete forgiveness by trusting in His death on the cross. I was merely pointing out that according to God's Word, Hell is eternal.
Oh, my apologies to you, Joeboonda, and to Roli for my careless error.
However, the Bible as you interpret it, is not what I abide to. I disagree that hell is eternal because I believe that nothing is eternal.
Peace,
Mystic
I agree, especially as if something happens, or contains happenings, then it is not "eternal" but a part of time.However, the Bible as you interpret it, is not what I abide to. I disagree that hell is eternal because I believe that nothing is eternal.
Only "nothing" can be eternal --if it's "something," it is a part of our limited time/space (i.e. we've given it a label).
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
Thinking something is a geographic area is still a state of mind. So no matter how you slice it: Hell is a state of mind, a construct of thoughts.