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Jesus is God the Father?
- Thread starter Katzpur
- Start date
lunamoth
Will to love
I think there was a thead on this a few months ago...*luna goes off to search*
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Don't spend too much time, Luna. I'm interested in hearing trinitarians' perspective on this exact phrase.
nutshell
Well-Known Member
Since a Trini- hasn't responded yet, here's an answer from apostolic.net
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/father.htm
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/father.htm
lunamoth
Will to love
Found it quick...http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45249
It does ask the question a bit differently.
Anyway, my answer is 'no.'
It does ask the question a bit differently.
Anyway, my answer is 'no.'
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Wow! I'm impressed. Since there is almost always an active thread on the Trinity, I'm surprised you zeroed in on that one so quickly. Yes, it does ask the question differently and, to be honest, I only started that particular thread because I misunderstood something Paul had said. When I realized what had happened, I publicly apologized for the misunderstanding. That's why I quoted the poster who said this ("Jesus is God the Father") verbatim.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Interesting indeed! According to this article, the answer is yes. According to Lunamoth, the answer is no. Maybe I need to add a poll.
lunamoth
Will to love
That website is by Oneness Pentacostals, not Trinitarians.
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/index.htm
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Oh, darn! Now I am confused!
Seriously, I'm sorry. Dawny belongs to a Pentacostal Church and yet I know she is a Trinitarian. Is there a difference of opinion on this doctrine between Pentacostal Christians?
Runlikethewind
Monk in Training
Trinitarians compose a large swath of believes. I am sure one could find those who would answer yes and those who would answer no. So just to be different I will answer both yes and no. Jesus and the Father are both fully divine, there is only one God, and so in some sense they are one and the same. Yet they are both distinct persona's of the one God and so Jesus is Jesus and The Father is The Father and the one is not the other, so they are not one and the same. To put it bluntly the Trinity is an absolute mystery beyond our comprehension. We may not even be able to grasp it after we die and come face to face with it. So the answer IMO is yes and no, Jesus is and is not The Father. Don't ask me how that works in reality.
lunamoth
Will to love
Oh, darn! Now I am confused!
Not all Pentacostals are Oneness Pentacostals.
I found a bit on the difference in theology, also from that website.
Oneness vs. Trintiy
Runlikethewind
Monk in Training
P.S. The official Catholic position is probably no Jesus is not God the Father but I will have to do some research to find out for sure....
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Cop out!
In trying to weigh your "yes" against your "no," your "no" is more convincing.I would have to say no, Jesus is not the Father yet he is still God.
As to the oneness thing they believe different to the mainstream Pentecostals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostal
As to the oneness thing they believe different to the mainstream Pentecostals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostal
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Thank you for your input. I learned something new tonight. I didn't know the first thing about "Oneness Pentecostals" till now.
Runlikethewind
Monk in Training
Ok, ok I know its a cop out. But you are right, I tend to think no is the better answer, although I think there is allot more to it than a simple yes or no.Cop out!
Rolling_Stone
Well-Known Member
Why not? I believe that Jesus spoke for all of us when he said, "I and my Father are one."
"A" cannot be both "A" and "not-A" at the same time, same place and in the same relationship, but "A" can be both "A" and "not-A" at the same time and same place in a different relationship. So the answer is Yes and No.
I suggest the book, The Cloud of Unknowing, written by an unknown author in the fourteenth century.
FerventGodSeeker
Believer
Yes, there are Oneness Pentecostal churches, which are different from Trinitarian ones.Oh, darn! Now I am confused!
FerventGodSeeker
Believer
Katz, straight from the horse's mouth: Jesus is not the Father.