the image

johannes said:

your male half = your spiritual half and your female half = your visible flesh taken from the mother god the earth. thus all human beings = male and female whether a male person or a female person. your male/spiritual half is from heaven the male half of the universe and your female/flesh half is from earth the female half of the universe who give birth to different things, as is the case with humans the female holds the womb. johan.

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Glad you cleared that up for us, thank you.

Scuba Pete said:

I didn't say that. At least I don't believe I said that. You have misread me as you have misread the scriptures.

Matthew 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." -NIV

It appears from this scripture that they were two separate individuals who become "one" in marriage. I don't think that God really cares about the male/female dichotomy. Yet in another passage we find that God sees beyond our mere sexuality...

Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. -NIV

Since we are stuck in this physical realm where masculinity and femininity are of the utmost importance, we have a hard time accepting that they just don't mean squat. Don't get stuck on the outward appearances and forget that the most important part of us is our character.

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sorry; it shouldnt read like this "how you can say that i wouldnt know", but rather i meant i dont know how you got to that conclusion.
i dont misread the scripture i quote it like it is stated in the bible. you now want ot make excuses for what the bible says; the bible says; God = male and female and we are created to this image. my question therefore is; which part of god does he calls his female part and which part of him does he refer to as male?? quite simple and it needs a simple answer.
i must say; me and my wife never became one flesh like you say, did you and your wife became one flesh?? well me and my wife are stil two different flesh. however; the only way we did become one flesh was by way of our children because they have 50% of my genes and 50% of her genes. this is the ONLY way one can become one flesh and that is by way of sex. this is how i became one flesh with God by way of the male and the female god having sex and by way of a rebirth for god he and his wife will become one flesh in me and you. however i would like to hear from you how you and your missers became one flesh. god is not talking about caracters when he says he is male and female.johan.

johannes said:

doesnt really describe or explain anything, does it?

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That isn't its function. So of course it doesn't.

Katzpur said:

As for a "spiritual image," that's an oxymoron.

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Now, why would you say that? How is it an oxymoron?

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. -NIV

At the time of our creation, it doesn't appear that God was flesh.

I Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. -NIV

It also appears that our current "likeness" is not of the man in heaven. Our image though is from God.

But then, like so many things in the Scriptures, perhaps they are explaining this in a way for us to understand the greater truth and not so worried about the particulars. IOW, it is beyond our ability to completely understand the fullness of the truth until we are also fully spirit.

Maybe it was meant to read "God created man in His imagination"

johannes said:

please give your comments on the following verse; Gen.1:27; so God created man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
what do you understand from this verse? johan.

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I believe that this made in god's image thing does not mean a physical image. I believe it means that Allah created humans to have some of the attributes of Allah in finite measure. Things like Allah is the merciful. A human can also be merciful, however not infinitely so. Allah is the loving, the compassionate, the just, the strong, etc. Obviously people can exhibit those same attributes again but not in infinite measure. Our compassion can run out, there are times when we will not be very just, so on and so on.

That is what I think the verse means. I cannot accept that God is a humanoid being and then created us as such based on that. Saying that He created humans male and female, is only a statement of what He created in his image. Meaning both males and females can exhibit these qualities despite the obvious difference between genders.

That's my two cents.

Quagmire said:

Maybe it was meant to read "God created man in His imagination"

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well i guess you have read the bible so i would like to get your intelligent response. johan.

johannes said:

you now want ot make excuses for what the bible says; the bible says; God = male and female and we are created to this image.

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Using your logic we have a lot of androgynous people walking about. So how do you use this in other scriptures that use "male and female"???

1. Genesis 1:27
   So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
   Genesis 1:26-28 (in Context) Genesis 1 (Whole Chapter)
2. Genesis 5:2
   He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "
   Genesis 5:1-3 (in Context) Genesis 5 (Whole Chapter)
3. Genesis 6:19
   You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you.
   Genesis 6:18-20 (in Context) Genesis 6 (Whole Chapter)
4. Genesis 7:3
   and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.
   Genesis 7:2-4 (in Context) Genesis 7 (Whole Chapter)
5. Genesis 7:9
   male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah.
   Genesis 7:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 7 (Whole Chapter)
6. Genesis 7:16
   The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in.
   Genesis 7:15-17 (in Context) Genesis 7 (Whole Chapter)
7. Genesis 12:16
   He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and camels.
   Genesis 12:15-17 (in Context) Genesis 12 (Whole Chapter)
8. Genesis 20:14
   Then Abimelech brought sheep and cattle and male and female slaves and gave them to Abraham, and he returned Sarah his wife to him.
   Genesis 20:13-15 (in Context) Genesis 20 (Whole Chapter)

Are you suggesting that ALL of thee scriptures are referencing the dichotomy of the human existence or merely stating that they wanted BOTH male and female???

johannes said:

my question therefore is; which part of god does he calls his female part and which part of him does he refer to as male?? quite simple and it needs a simple answer.

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It's a frivolous question and has no answer. The scriptures never indicate this dichotomy, much less try to explain it.

johannes said:

i must say; me and my wife never became one flesh like you say, did you and your wife became one flesh??

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I feel truly sorry for you in this. I hope that you attain this in your lifetime. Somethings were never meant to be taken ultra literally.

fullyveiled muslimah said:

I believe that this made in god's image thing does not mean a physical image. I believe it means that Allah created humans to have some of the attributes of Allah in finite measure. Things like Allah is the merciful. A human can also be merciful, however not infinitely so. Allah is the loving, the compassionate, the just, the strong, etc. Obviously people can exhibit those same attributes again but not in infinite measure. Our compassion can run out, there are times when we will not be very just, so on and so on.

That is what I think the verse means. I cannot accept that God is a humanoid being and then created us as such based on that. Saying that He created humans male and female, is only a statement of what He created in his image. Meaning both males and females can exhibit these qualities despite the obvious difference between genders.

That's my two cents.

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thank you for your comments. i have studied the Qu ran and when one understand it the basics is about the same and you mention them here above.
God says two things; image and likeness. both of them can be explained by saying; it is like God although it is not. it is like a photo of a human; it is a human but it is not or an idol of a human, it is but it is not a human.
Mo Hammed put a lot of emphasis on our mother earth and heavenly father and you could look at that as one image of God to explain male and female. johan.

johannes said:

please give your comments on the following verse; Gen.1:27; so God created man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
what do you understand from this verse? johan.

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That is an extensive answer, which cannot be easily/comprehensively contained in the 10,000 word limit on these posts.

I'll post this as a starter:

johannes said:

well i guess you have read the bible so i would like to get your intelligent response. johan.

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I thought that was an intellegent response.

Maybe what you're asking for is a serious response.

OK; I figure, if there's any one thing that man has in common with God (moreso than the rest of the animal kingdom) it's our ability to imagine and create reality (granted, God's reality is a bit more tangible than ours).

In fact, some scientists are starting to echo what mystics have been saying all along; the basic construct of the Universe/reality more closely resembles that of a huge thought than anything else.

By the same token some see evidence that our thoughts, even apart from our actions, effect and shape physical reality to some extent.

So in a sense God and man are co-creators.

In any case each of us creates our own universe and, on an emotional level, it's just as real to us as the dream God's having.

Scuba Pete said:

Using your logic we have a lot of androgynous people walking about. So how do you use this in other scriptures that use "male and female"???

1. Genesis 1:27
   So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
   Genesis 1:26-28 (in Context) Genesis 1 (Whole Chapter)
2. Genesis 5:2
   He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "
   Are you suggesting that ALL of thee scriptures are referencing the dichotomy of the human existence or merely stating that they wanted BOTH male and female??? It's a frivolous question and has no answer. The scriptures never indicate this dichotomy, much less try to explain it. I feel truly sorry for you in this. I hope that you attain this in your lifetime. Somethings were never meant to be literally.

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you dont understand what you read; in the first place he creared THEM. in the second place he did not call them MAN he called the human Adam and that is the reason he says; he created them/Adam male and female in one body. surely you can also say there are men and women but this is not our coversation we are looking through another eye of god because god has seven eyes.
the meaning of Adam = human and not his gender. therefore; all humans are created male and female meaning a spiritual half and a visible half.
nothing can have no answer we only say that when we dont understand.
you dont have to feel sorry for me because this is exactly what i was explaining to you that; the only way you and your wife can become one flesh is by way of sex and having children and that is what god had in mind. therefore i agree that somethings was never ment to be litarally like this one. johan.

Quagmire said:

I thought that was an intellegent response.

Maybe what you're asking for is a serious response.

OK; I figure, if there's any one thing that man has in common with God (moreso than the rest of the animal kingdom) it's our ability to imagine and create reality (granted, God's reality is a bit more tangible than ours).

In fact, some scientists are starting to echo what mystics have been saying all along; the basic construct of the Universe/reality more closely resembles that of a huge thought than anything else.

By the same token some see evidence that our thoughts, even apart from our actions, effect and shape physical reality to some extent.

So in a sense God and man are co-creators.

In any case each of us creates our own universe and, on an emotional level, it's just as real to us as the dream God's having.

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well who would say this is not an intelligent response!! yes imagination is the sixth spirit which indeed make us different from animals and is the second most powerfull spirit in the universe. you can also call this spirit the spirit of the soul.

Which eye of God are you looking through? The second one on the left?

So, I get the feeling you started this thread in order to get us to comply to your interpretation/extrapolation/twisting of this particular scripture. I don't buy into your illogic for a moment. He made a man and a woman out of flesh. He is Spirit. As others have pointed out (kudos to them) the image in this scripture is referencing his and our Spirits.

johannes said:

[/list]you dont understand what you read;

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Of course I do. You just can't accept that I disagree with you. Why make assertions you can not hope to defend?

I am too lazy to read all the posts, so please tell me if this has already been said.

Genesis 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Given this usage of the same phrase, isn't it possible that YHWH (God) looks like a human being? An androygenous being perhaps?

yuvgotmel said:

That is an extensive answer, which cannot be easily/comprehensively contained in the 10,000 word limit on these posts.


I'll post this as a starter:

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“Then she will begin to rage at herself like a woman in labor, who writhes and rages in the hour of delivery. But since she is female, by herself she is powerless to beget a child. From heaven the father sent her her man, who is her brother, the firstborn. Then the bridegroom came down to the bride. She gave up her former prostitution and cleansed herself of the pollutions of the adulterers, and she was renewed so as to be a bride. She cleansed herself in the bridal chamber; she filled it with perfume; she sat in it waiting for the true bridegroom. No longer does she run about the market place, copulating with whomever she desires, but she continued to wait for him—(saying) “When will he come?”—and to fear him, for she did not know what he looked like: she no longer remembers since the time she fell from her father’s house. But by the will of the father <…>. And she dreamed of him like a woman in love with a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But then the bridegroom, according to the father’s will, came down to her into the bridal chamber, which was prepared. And he decorated the bridal chamber.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For since that marriage is not like the carnal marriage, those who are to have intercourse with one another will be satisfied with that intercourse. And as if it were a burden they leave behind them the annoyance of physical desire and they [turn their faces from] each other. But this marriage […]. But [once] they unite [with one another], they become a single life. Wherefore the prophet said (Genesis 2:24) concerning the first man and the first woman,[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They will become a single flesh.”[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From “The Exegenesis on the Soul” [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]from “The Nag Hammadi Library” by James M. Robinson, page 195[/FONT]

​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bridal Chamber and Androgyny[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Among the forms of unclean spirits are male[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and female ones. Males have sex with souls[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]who inhabit a female shape,[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and females mingle promiscuously with souls[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]in a male form. No one escapes those spirits:[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]they seize you, unless you take on the power[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]of male or female, of groom and bride.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This power resides in the mirrored bridal chamber.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When wanton women see a man sitting alone,[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the man is overcome. They fondle him[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and pollute him. When wanton men see[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]a beautiful woman sitting alone, they overcome her,[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and she is violated and polluted.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But when spirits see a man and his wife sitting together,[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the female spirits cannot enter the male, nor the male[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the woman. When the image and angel are joined,[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]none can force themselves on the man and woman.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“The Gospel of Philip” [/FONT]​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]from “The Gnostic Bible” page 275[/FONT]​

​

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this is interesting; a Gnostic Bible? well said in any case.
before this present universe there was another universe which was not fertile and for this reason this one was created to create diversity. to enable the universe/god to do that husband and wife had to devorce and therefore we get the earth as wife and the heaven as farther of all living beings. heaven has its soirit which is always male and after the earth was formed she gave birth to her own spirit/s which is also male. i say; all spirits are male whether it is the spirit of heaven or the spirit of earth. all visible things are called female because it is the visible things that give birth.

Darkness said:

I am too lazy to read all the posts, so please tell me if this has already been said.

Genesis 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Given this usage of the same phrase, isn't it possible that YHWH (God) looks like a human being? An androygenous being perhaps?

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Great scripture! It appears that there are TWO different things going on here: likeness and image. Could it be that likeness = physical and image = spirit? It works for me!

Scuba Pete said:

Which eye of God are you looking through? The second one on the left?

So, I get the feeling you started this thread in order to get us to comply to your interpretation/extrapolation/twisting of this particular scripture. I don't buy into your illogic for a moment. He made a man and a woman out of flesh. He is Spirit. As others have pointed out (kudos to them) the image in this scripture is referencing his and our Spirits.

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loking through the sevent eye, you are looking through the sixth eye the litteral eye.
no the bible says the image of God is male and female and can you deny that it say that? we are talking about the image of god; what is this image, which part is the female part of God?

johannes,

you don't divulge your religion, so I have to ask this. Are you trying to meld Christo-Judaic concepts with yet another religion? I have no idea where you get the multiple eyes and different worlds you are referring to in the Old Testament. Please elucidate.