Yuvgotmel & Roli 1on1 comments.

Luke Wolf said:

I find it to be an interesting debate, allthough somewhat predictable with Biblical answers coming from Roli.

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I'm with you on this one, Roli has not come up with much of his own material, and quoting the bible does not solve a thing.

I'm with you on this one, Roli has not come up with much of his own material, and quoting the bible does not solve a thing.

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I've been surprised with his last few posts.

Your last post displays the very nature of witchcraft and spell casting that I have been speaking of all along. Using your god, like a spiritual attack dog, is black magic. Some call it proselytizing; I call it a hex.

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I have talked with an elderly Lakota lady who also views it as hexing and black magick, and an action that attracts alot of negative Karma.

Luke Wolf said:

I have talked with an elderly Lakota lady who also views it as hexing and black magick, and an action that attracts alot of negative Karma.

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Ah yes Luke...Which is the meaning of this statement too:

doppelgänger;829338 said:

It's really quite wonderful and I've learned quite a bit from it. I'd toyed with the notion that "born again" Evangelical Christianity is a form of occultism and spellcasting, but the debate lays out that idea much more clearly than I've ever taken the time to do.

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Thank you. I am glad to see that others are benefiting from this thread as well.

doppelgänger;829338 said:

That statement is the most interesting product of the debate so far. I'm looking forward to reading more as the two of you continue.

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I also noticed that roli said that the entire conversation could be a figment of the imagination; and then he went on to say how purposeless that is. However, in my response to him, I made sure to show that our world is not without meaning, to which in his reply he totally omitted that part of my statement. Did you see that?

In short, yes you are right on. He appears adamant about the futility of this existence. ....hummm....

Post #20 --concerning the Mind Virus of Human Sacrifice (in the form of "Communion")
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=831567&postcount=20

Comments anyone???

I'd love to hear your comments as well.

I found it interesting. I realize this is off-topic but it brought to mind how when we eat meat that has been slaughtered commercially (and often suffers and is terrified as it smells death long before it dies) we are consuming all of those negative emotions as well.

I did have one question about the comparison of blood and wine. Was the post suggesting that in the OT that wine is equated with consuming blood? I was not aware of that.

Overall I think you have a strong argument. The only piece of it that I am uncomfortable with is your comments on "possession" (at least I think you explicitly call it that). While I do agree that we can build negative thought-forms and that they can then do us harm, I don't believe in spirits per se (instead I see all energy connected via a collective unconscious or something along those lines) and therefore reject the term "possession". But with the exception of that, I think you make perfect sense.

bflydad said:

I found it interesting. I realize this is off-topic but it brought to mind how when we eat meat that has been slaughtered commercially (and often suffers and is terrified as it smells death long before it dies) we are consuming all of those negative emotions as well.

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Ah...right you are! And good introjection there!

And just for that reason (that you mentioned above): There are quite a few people who will only eat meat that has been raised on certain farms that have very strict requirements in slaughtering the animals.

bflydad said:

I did have one question about the comparison of blood and wine. Was the post suggesting that in the OT that wine is equated with consuming blood? I was not aware of that.

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Yes. That is what the prophets were saying (a bit poetically or cryptically).

Examples:

bflydad said:

Overall I think you have a strong argument. The only piece of it that I am uncomfortable with is your comments on "possession" (at least I think you explicitly call it that). While I do agree that we can build negative thought-forms and that they can then do us harm, I don't believe in spirits per se (instead I see all energy connected via a collective unconscious or something along those lines) and therefore reject the term "possession". But with the exception of that, I think you make perfect sense.

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Technically, I agree with you. My terms were altered in order to attempt to "reach" the audience (i.e. roli). But, yes, I agree--all is energy.

ok, Mel, you have spent more time with Roli then I hae, so maybe you can explain something....why does he think that he is the only one who is right? everyone else, with so many varying views on things disagree with him, he thinks everyone is wrong, when in fact it is the opposite...

BFD_Zayl said:

ok, Mel, you have spent more time with Roli then I hae, so maybe you can explain something....why does he think that he is the only one who is right? everyone else, with so many varying views on things disagree with him, he thinks everyone is wrong, when in fact it is the opposite...

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In a word: Fear.

Roli said it himself, while quoting a verse from the New Testament, that people are afraid to come into the light that they (and their deeds) may be exposed.

There is another reason: Pride. It can be a difficult thing to admit having been wrong. I watched my dad go through this in the past few years. He was in very rigid denial. He's changed a lot; and it has not been easy on him.

Additional reasons would include possible psychiatric/behavioral disorders either from medical conditions or learned behaviors (as a child through adulthood).

Supernatural reason: Mind Virus (in the form of Evangelical Christianity). It can be very addictive (because of the hype and energy in the services) and also create a co-dependency (because of the outcast syndrome with mainstream Christianity and the general populace). I think that Evangelical Christianity can and does foster isolation, self-isolation, rejection, self-rejection, condemnation, self-condemnation, judgment, self-judgment, and much more. It seems to want to separate itself from all else and subsequently kill itself off in its' self-exclusive-state.

Followers could be likened to a situation of abuse, where the abused becomes dependent on the abuser.

Evangelical Christianity is not too unlike other cults, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, that cut off members who stop attendance to their churches. Within Evangelical Christianity, there is a norm that is set--one that is unwritten but spread through gossip--that reiterates the words of Bush "If you aren't for us, you're against us," and it goes on to also include "If you aren't here (in our churches), then you are separated from us." Separation from the Evangelical churches is likened to damnation to hell. There are a lot of high-pressure tactics used (as you might have seen in the recent film "Jesus Camp").

Such high-pressure tactics are not isolated to Evangelical Christianity though. They have been used as far back as the early Roman Catholic Church, to pressure/force people into paying customers and obedient followers.

In my opinion, it's a Mind Virus, one that seems to get a bit nastier each time it branches, splits, and merges with new cells (or mind thoughts).

The only bright outlook there is on all of this: is the fact that they are in obvious Chaos among themselves, their various hierarchy of sects, branches and so forth. Thus, there are over 20,000 (?) demonations of Christianity.

Chaos.

oh! and don't forget being childish

yuvgotmel said:

Post #20 --concerning the Mind Virus of Human Sacrifice (in the form of "Communion")
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=831567&postcount=20

Comments anyone???

I'd love to hear your comments as well.

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Doesnt this whole "human sacrifice" thing refer to catholicism where they believe the bread and wine is literaly Jesus body? ( for anyone who moans bout me saying what catholics believe, i used to be one)
Other than that, i didnt think much of it.

BFD_Zayl said:

ok, Mel, you have spent more time with Roli then I hae, so maybe you can explain something....why does he think that he is the only one who is right? everyone else, with so many varying views on things disagree with him, he thinks everyone is wrong, when in fact it is the opposite...

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Did it not occur to ask Roli this?
Quite a little groupie base Yuvgotmel is gaining.:camp:

Seeing as though youre interested in asking others bout Roli, maybe its cause Roli goes by the Bible and the Bible is True?

porkchop said:

Doesnt this whole "human sacrifice" thing refer to catholicism where they believe the bread and wine is literaly Jesus body? ( for anyone who moans bout me saying what catholics believe, i used to be one)
Other than that, i didnt think much of it.

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This thread explains quite a bit:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47034
especially in Posts #'s: 5, 36, 47, 68, 69, 73 & 107

BFD_Zayl said:

I'm with you on this one, Roli has not come up with much of his own material, and quoting the bible does not solve a thing.

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You say that about me and seemingly exploit me in doing so, yet you need to look hard in the mirror
What do you mean, " own material", who on this site uses their own information.
Are you kidding me, I mean are you telling me that every person on this forum uses their own information,including you.
I wonder what books you read,study from,who is it you quote from,stand on and rely in.Oh but your "oringinal"
The bible has more accuracy, fulfilled prophecy to date and validation of it's ancient writings,archalogical findings ,scientific proof,and eye witness accounts within 100 yrs of actual events than any other writing.
The bible is self proving,self suffcient, self evident and in it's place as the most circulated,translated,purchased book in the world,many have attempted to destory it,hide it,avoid it, defame it,yet it's still here.
It's teachings are sound,it's principals are eternal,it convicts the soul,confounds the wise,provokes the skeptic, exposes the sinner,condemns the guilty and hidden from the arrogant and proud.
It was written by man, but only as it was spoken by the Holy Spirit,it's in this world but most certainly not of this world.

That friends is a a relaiable source and a book worth reading, if you dare, but beware,it will change you if you allow the supernatural power of God to trnsform you.

Be honest ,their is so much pirating on this and most, if not all forums such as this.
The fact is, most of the mind sets, be it from , anti theists,evolutionists,etc and all who not only oppose the christian position ,but have their own position take it from outside sources.

Philosophy today is amazing , yet how much of it is new forms of thinking and how much is at best,circular reasoning through thoughts ,studies and experiements of the past. Today everybody believes or disbelieves something based on what was said or done in the past by someone else.

Take for example the modern philosopher, may comes along with some of his own thoughts,but are'nt they really a culmination of other thoughts,philsophies brought together by outside sources.

Finish your sentence, in actuality,it is you and many on this forum that quote information from sources other than your own.
Who on this site uses their own information, come on,when it comes to the Christian quoting from scripture,it's somehow ,"taboo" and labelled inaccurate ,false,unreliable,but when those who oppose scripture such as , intellectuals,anti thiests, secular humanist,evolutionist or what have you quote and refer to much of what some other man has said, this is somehow valid and reliable,who is deluded and unoriginal.

Such hypocrisy,I can't beleive so many buy into it.

roli said:

... who on this site uses their own information.
.... Be honest ,their is so much pirating on this and most, if not all forums such a this
The fact is, most of the mind sets, be it from , anti theists,evolutionists,etc and all who not only oppose the christian position ,but have their own position take it from outside sources.
... Who on this site uses their own information,...

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As a mystic, I learn from my experiences FIRST, only after that, those things are confirmed to me from books, science, etc. In fact, as I wrote to porkchop on another thread:
Most all of what you have read from my posts, on the 1-on-1 thread, was written from me. Yes, I used other sources to back my arguement up, but if you noticed, I paraphrased most of it. Even the post with the excerpted essay about The Psychological Effects of Communion was something that I wrote late last year.

There are quite a number of people on RF that are very intelligent and do post their original thoughts. Not all of those persons have sources to back up their thoughts and experiences; I do though.

You say that about me and seemingly exploit me in doing so, yet you need to look hard in the mirror
What do you mean, " own material", who on this site uses their own information.
Are you kidding me, I mean are you telling me that every person on this forum uses their own information,including you.

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When I'm debating, I use my own words for the most part. I rarly make direct quotes. I would much rather experience stuff first hand, which is a primary source of learning for an Occultist.

That friends is a a relaiable source and a book worth reading,

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I find very litte about the Bible to be relaiable. I use to live by it, but since I have begun thinking and living for myself, I cannot go back to being bound by it.

yuvgotmel said:

Unlike a preacher or missionary telling me what to think, I watch my surroundings and I also monitor my reactions to it (my thoughts, feelings, etc.). I could read a thousand pages and understand nothing, unless I have first experienced it. The words on the pages have no meaning except the value that comes from my interpretation. Therefore, the books have no value except when needing quotes later on. The same sentence can change meaning many times for a single individual as they move forward on their spiritual and/or intellectual path. I can only comprehend what I already know.

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I think that is very well said. However, many Christians could respond that they gain experience and knowledge when the Holy Spirit possesses (I really don't like that word) them and then only use the Bible to articulate the experience and knowledge that they have gained.

porkchop said:

Seeing as though youre interested in asking others bout Roli, maybe its cause Roli goes by the Bible and the Bible is True?

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eh, go ahead and think what you will, i'll worship my Gods, you go ahead and worship yours, everyone is happy.

and roli, i agree, most of what i say is influenced by what i have experienced and writings that i trust, however, you will rarely see my quote word for word, as often as you do. so please, don't try to put me, or anyone else down.

Regardless of the obvious responses and as noble sounding they may have been,they were pretty much in line with what I expected.

Of course we all have our own thoughts and expereinces,that is a given, but it's so hard for some to admit the fact that the majority of information we assimilate is many times the basis of what we believe, come on guys, it's not an insult to the intellect to admit that a vast percentage of that information is from outside sources.

The problem is, if you admit that, then your no different then the Christian who stands on the word of God.