I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me

In my short participation on this Forum, it appears we all understand God very differently. Passion about what we believe is a good thing. Hopefully, our tension will help all us to discern what is true and what is false. The Apostle Paul reveals to us in Ephesians 6:10: “For our struggle is not flesh and blood (each other), but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms”. Therefore, everyone shares a common enemy.

I would like to start a Thread on spiritual discernment. How do we know that we are listening to God, or our common enemy? Let’s please start with John chapter 10. Could you share your understanding and interpretation of John chapter 10? I would like to listen to your answers. Please try to interpret and apply the entire chapter 10 with your answers. - BT

John 10 - The Shepherd and His Flock

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

At these words the Jews were again divided. Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"

But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

The Unbelief of the Jews

Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. Here he stayed and many people came to him. They said, "Though John never performed a miraculous sign, all that John said about this man was true." And in that place many believed in Jesus.

New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

Not all of the Jews rejected Christ. After all, the 11 apostles were Jews, the 500 or so disciples were Jews, and Paul was a Jew (He was a pharisee from the tribe of Benjamin). It wasn't until after Jesus' ressurection that The Word was preached to anyone outside of Jews and the Romans surrounding the area (ie the centurion who asked Jesus to heal his servant and had great faith).
Since I am of Jewish descent, I like that to be remembered. (I was never a practising Jew, since my mother was an atheist since before my birth until my late teens and her Jewish mother married a Italian who was a catholic and followed his religion. )

Mat 24:5
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

wizanda said:

Mat 24:5
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

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Matthew 24:22-25

If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time.

Luk 21:7-36
(7) And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
(8) And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
(9) But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
(10) Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
(11) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
(12) But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
(13) And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
(14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
(15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
(16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
(17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
(18) But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
(19) In your patience possess ye your souls.
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
(22) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
(24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
(25) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
(26) Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
(27) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(28) And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
(29) And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
(30) When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
(31) So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
(32) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
(33) Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
(34) And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
(35) For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

What exactly is being debated here?

beckysoup61 said:

What exactly is being debated here?

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Looks like a bunch of quoting from the Bible....I dont see any interpretation or thoughts.

beckysoup61 said:

What exactly is being debated here?

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They're debating who can quote the Bible the most.

daddyholland said:

Looks like a bunch of quoting from the Bible....I dont see any interpretation or thoughts.

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I believe God reveals that certain sinners are granted spiritual ears to hear and understand God’s written revelation. Other sinners are unable to understand God’s written revelation by His divine will. I believe the Bible clearly teaches predestination and probably double-predestination. The Bible is a spiritual book revealing spiritual truths to God’s elect or chosen ones, to the praise and glory of God. I have no idea who will be an elect of God. Those who have been granted spiritual ears to hear will understand God’s transforming truths over their lifetime. Spiritual enlightenment is the ministry of God the Holy Spirit through illumination of the Scriptures. – BT

Deuteronomy 29:4
But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.

Job 13:1
"My eyes have seen all this, my ears have heard and understood it

Psalm 115:6
they have ears, but cannot hear, noses, but they cannot smell;

Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. [ Hebrew; Septuagint 'You will be ever hearing, but never understanding; / you will be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' / 10 This people's heart has become calloused; / they hardly hear with their ears, / and they have closed their eyes ] Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Jeremiah 5:21
Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear:

Jeremiah 6:10
To whom can I speak and give warning? Who will listen to me? Their ears are closed [ Hebrew uncircumcised ] so they cannot hear. The word of the LORD is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it.

Matthew 11:15
He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:9
He who has ears, let him hear."

Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' [ Isaiah 6:9,10]

Matthew 13:16
But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Mark 4:9
Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Mark 4:23
If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."

Mark 8:18
Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear? And don't you remember?

Luke 8:8
Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown." When he said this, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Luke 14:35
It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Acts 7:51
"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Acts 28:27
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' [ Isaiah 6:9,10]

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day." [ Deut. 29:4; Isaiah 29:10]

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Eze 34:8-10
(8) As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
(9) Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
(10) Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.


Mat 10:5-7
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 15:24
(24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Psa 119:176
(176) I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Isa 53:6
(6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

wizanda said:

Eze 34:8-10
(8) As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
(9) Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
(10) Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.


Mat 10:5-7
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 15:24
(24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Psa 119:176
(176) I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Isa 53:6
(6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

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If we claim to be Christians with a high view of Scripture, this is the best way to communicate. Answer Scripture with Scripture...post Scripture with Scripture. I have to go fishing right now (fishing for trout and not for men ). - BT

Matthew 4:19
"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Mark 1:17
"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."

This thread is hilarious...

bible truth said:

I believe God reveals that certain sinners are granted spiritual ears to hear and understand God’s written revelation. Other sinners are unable to understand God’s written revelation by His divine will.

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I believe that God is no respecter of persons. I look to His own words to know this. "And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:9-13)

I believe the Bible clearly teaches predestination and probably double-predestination.

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Double predestination? What on earth that?

bible truth said:

I would like to start a Thread on spiritual discernment. How do we know that we are listening to God, or our common enemy?

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Well, it's not rocket science, I'll tell you that!

God lifts us to new heights; Satan lowers us to unimaginable depths. Satan doesn't call upon us to glorify God, to look to His Son for salvation and to show our love for Him by treating our fellow men -- even those whom we perceive to be our enemies -- with contempt. If we are listening to God, and truly hearing what He is saying to us, our lives will reflect the message that is embedded in our hearts. It's not at all hard to know who has internalized this message. As He said himself, "By this shall men know that ye are my disciples: that ye have love one to another."

Katzpur said:

"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:9-13)

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After reading this post, I immediately thought of this....


38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part. 41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. (Mark 9)

Powerful words there, I think. That "one" was not an elect as you put it BT. Was not an Apostle or a disciple. Just a common man doing a common thing. ( well uncommon at that time )

darnell

bible truth said:

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

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1. In Matthew 15:24, Jesus unequivocably states, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

2. In the John 10:16 (which you just quoted), He says He has "other sheep which are not of this fold."

Since, according to His own words, His own personal ministry was limited solely to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and He had other sheep (i.e. others from the house of Israel) who were not of the same fold (i.e. separated from the audience to whom He was speaking), who in the world could He have been referring to?

Before you answer, keep in mind that He said they would "hear my voice." He commissioned His Apostles to spread the gospel to the Gentiles. The Gentiles would, therefore, hear His words or be taught His message. But He was saying that a group of Israelites somewhere other than in the Holy Land would actually hear His voice. They would hear His message from His mouth and not from the mouths of His servants. Who fits that criteria that you know of?

Katzpur said:

1. In Matthew 15:24, Jesus unequivocably states, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

2. In the John 10:16 (which you just quoted), He says He has "other sheep which are not of this fold."

Since, according to His own words, His own personal ministry was limited solely to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and He had other sheep (i.e. others from the house of Israel) who were not of the same fold (i.e. separated from the audience to whom He was speaking), who in the world could He have been referring to?

Before you answer, keep in mind that He said they would "hear my voice." He commissioned His Apostles to spread the gospel to the Gentiles. The Gentiles would, therefore, hear His words or be taught His message. But He was saying that a group of Israelites somewhere other than in the Holy Land would actually hear His voice. They would hear His message from His mouth and not from the mouths of His servants. Who fits that criteria that you know of?

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I know! I know! Pick me!

daddyholland said:

After reading this post, I immediately thought of this....


38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part. 41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. (Mark 9)

Powerful words there, I think. That "one" was not an elect as you put it BT. Was not an Apostle or a disciple. Just a common man doing a common thing. ( well uncommon at that time )

darnell

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One of my very favorite scriptures, Darnell!