We Live In A Haunted House

true blood said:

I'm under the conclusion that whoever is right will be bashed the most.

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Don't know how you came up with that conclusion. I thought this was a debate...not everyone is going to agree with everyone lol. Wouldn't be much fun that way, and nobody would learn anything.

Runt-- When my money goes missing, I don't assume it's been taken by evil gremlins. That might be a more fun and exciting explaination of how my money disappeared, yes, but there are many other possible explainatins....let's not be too hasty to jump to conclusions.


As far as these "weird energy readings" go...I'd like to know more about this group that performed the tests. What's amazing to me is that so many are willing to beileve in spirits, demons, ghosts, fairies....but few people remember to believe in hoaxes.

If their findings are actually scientific and not just sensational, they could try this website: www.randi.org/research/
If they can actually prove that something supernatural is going on here, they get a million dollars.

Even if there are unexplained energy readings come on Runt, wierd energy readings don't = ghosts! Otherwise every area near a satellite dish or above underground cables might be haunted. mg:

Is this statement really rational?
"Well I can't explain it--must be ghosts!"

Here's my questoin for ya..... how do you know that the 'ghost' stage comes before judgment? What if God judged you and said you gotta be a ghost for a while? No one actually knows what God's final judgment entails. So you are being a bit presumtuous in this. Just because it isn't laid out in black and white doesn't mean that the judgment is how it is commonly interpreted to be. Don't be so dismissive of things because they arent directly stated in the Bible

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And here's my answer for you. Do you think God would omit something in the Bible that would leave people open to the spirit of fear? If so, then I suppose you are right, although God would be contradicting Himself if true. But that's impossible, because God is the same yesterday, today and forever. You can not believe the Bible is true and ghosts(the spirits of the deceased) exist. At least, not completely. If you believe the Bible, the only answer is that ghosts are demons pretending to be deceased or non-existent people.

But what if a ghost is kind of a "spiritual signature" rather than a lingering soul? Kind of like... you walk in wet sand and leave footprints, then go swimming and drown. Your physical body dies. Your soul flees and goes where it belongs. But those footprints are still there... they are still a reflection of your life, of you as a living being, of your ACTIONS as a living being... perhaps ghosts are something similar.

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I tihnk I finally have somewhat of an understanding of what you were trying to say...so here's my anology, what I think based on what I think I understand. If you drown, of course your body is going to die, and of course your footprints are going to be there until some water or wind wipes them away. Ghosts can not be a reflection of actions, as they are moving. Reflections of actions as a living being would be something like a home video of a father and son playing around together. A video or photograph or diary. Not actually you. A projection of what you were at some point in your life, not a wondering soul or ghost. How you put it, it makes it as though ghosts are figments of a persons imagination, which in many cases are true. But, that's my anology based on what I think I understand.

Yes! Like a metaphycial videotape showing a being at a certain time in his or her life but not actually being that being. I would guess that if ghosts do exist, and if I am right that they are not wandering souls so much as an imprint of a creature's life at a specific point in space, then they are created something like this: an important event in a human life that had a huge impact on them, charged with emotion, is strong enough to live an imprint. Unfortunatly, I think violence and death are VERY descriptive of that kind of emotionally charged event, which may account for the fact that ghosts often seem frightening.

The group was a group of skeptics. They went around looking at situations where there are supposedly ghosts, did tests, and tried to determine what was really going on. In that case, they suggested that the "ghost" may have simply been a type of piezoelectric effect of quartzite.

As for my "ghost" theory: We KNOW, scientifically, that humans have energy in their bodies. All kinds. We're warm. There's proof of energy changing forms. Several people one room will warm up the temperature of the room with their own "energy" (body heat). Natural substances (that are not alive) give off energy... look at quartz crystals, for example. Quartz is used in phones. Other examples of energy...static electricity. Regular electricity (like the kind powering your computer). Energy is everywhere, and in many cases (body warmth, static electricity) we can sense it.

Now, we know that body heat can linger for a while... try sitting in a chair where someone else was sitting a few seconds before. That's their body heat, not yours, and despite the fact that they are gone, that energy still lingers. So why is it so far-fetched that energy can linger and people can mistake it as the spirit of a dead person?

The spooky thing is that Tangnefedd, the person who started this thread is missing. mg:

Mr_Spinkles said:

Runt-- When my money goes missing, I don't assume it's been taken by evil gremlins. That might be a more fun and exciting explaination of how my money disappeared, yes, but there are many other possible explainatins....let's not be too hasty to jump to conclusions.

....

Is this statement really rational?
"Well I can't explain it--must be ghosts!"

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Please, Spinks...if you have other explanations for the stories I posted (some of which I witnessed with my own eyes), please share them. How can a toy car (not battery run, or otherwise mechanized...the wheels turned but that's as far as the technology went), travel from the floor, up the arm of a loungechair, and along the arm of the chair. I was the only person awake in the house at the time...there was nobody there to be playing a joke on me, and I hadn't fallen asleep at the sewing machine. So, what was it?

Runt said: >>So why is it so far-fetched that energy can linger and people can mistake it as the spirit of a dead person?<<

It's not far-fetched if the person died in a chair, and five minutes later someone sat in the chair and mistook its warmth for a spirit...

Energy exists in the body, I agree. But when a person dies, the body goes off somewhere, usually in a coffin, and decomposes, and that energy is dispersed into bacteria etc. I really doubt that the thermal, chemical, or electrical energy of a corpse travels out of the grave and back to the house the person used to live in, where it is detected by loved ones....the quartz thing makes much more sense.

Bastet-- Perhaps the toy car snagged a string sticking out of the sewing machine and was pulled up the chair. Maybe you're exaggerating the story without realizing it, or perhaps you fell asleep without realizing it. Maybe someone drugged your drink earlier that night and you were hallucinating. I'm not saying these things happened--I wasn't there--just that there are possibilities other than ghosts.

All I'm saying is ghosts aren't the only possible explaination of your experience. Just because an event can't be explained doesn't mean it must have been caused by ghosts. Let's remember that long ago, sailors swore they saw mermaids with their very own eyes! It is possible for all of us to see things that aren't there or be unable to find an explaination because we overlooked something--we're all human and our senses aren't perfect, and sometimes our imaginations run away with us when we try to explain natural phenomena.

LMAO... I'm not saying that the energy of the dead person rose from the grave, traveled to their house, and started "haunting". I'm saying that the energy was released WHILE THEY WERE STILL ALIVE, lingered in the area where it was released, and later, people sensing that energy but unable to understand what it was started having their imaginations go wild and, having heard of "ghosts" from other people, started dreaming up events in their mind or connecting otherwise unrelated events to create a "ghost".

Like... if you didn't know what static electricity was, and you'd never heard it before, and suddenly you walked across your house and touched... I don't know, a door, and got shocked, you'd be a little confused, startled, and disturbed. Not knowing what had happened, but having heard tales in the past of ghosts or demons that hate humans and do weird things to them, you might start thinking that it was a ghost. Then, any odd events that occur to you, you automatically attribute to the "ghost", and now believe you have a full out haunting.

As for whether or not the energy of living things "lingers"... ever heard of Kirlian photography?

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/k/kirlian_photography.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/kirlian.html

There is a weird incident about a leaf, which had been torn in half or something. When photographed, the other half of the leaf was still visible. Now, they were only photographing the energy... so obviously the purely physical part of the leaf was gone... but the energy of that part was still "there", in the shape of the missing part. Now... does this energy simply go away eventually? Possibly, but for at least a little while it lingers... and who knows for sure how long?

There are "auras" around all animate objects? I didn't learn that in biology.... :lol:

I didn't find one bit of scientific evidence to support Kirlian photography on those pages...just a lot of fantastic claims and poorly developed photos. Check out: http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html

Runt said:

I'm saying that the energy was released WHILE THEY WERE STILL ALIVE, lingered in the area where it was released, and later, people sensing that energy but unable to understand what it was

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Ok Runt, let's design a simple experiment to test your theory. In some trials, I'll spend an hour or so in a room, so that hopefully my "body energy" will build up in the room and "linger" for awhile. In other trials, I won't spend any time in the room at all (we could even use a different room each time). Then the test subject will go into the room.

You can be our test subject if you want. In each trial, you will enter the room, without any knowledge if I've been in there or not. Once you've been in the room long enough, you record on a peice of paper whether you think, for that trial, you can "sense" any "lingering energy". After 20 trials or so, I'll take a look at your recordings and tell you how many times you got it right. If your theory of lingering energy is true, we should expect you to get well above the statistical probability of mere guessing (more than 10/20 trials) correct.

Think you'll be able to get 20 out of 20? 15 out of 20? Prediction: not one test subject will be able to beat the statistical probability of guessing with any consistency. This would mean that any "sensed lingering energy" is just a product of an overactive imagination.

If anyone gets it right with, say, 80% consistentcy over multiple experiments, we'll go to www.randi.org/research/ to collect our million dollars. :goodjob:

I'm saying that the energy was released WHILE THEY WERE STILL ALIVE, lingered in the area where it was released,

Energy does not linger. Kirlian photography is pure horsepucky.

There are no such things as ghosts. To have a ghost requires that some part of a dead person survives death and carries on. The only book on spiritual matters we have is the Bible. An example in the Bible is when Jesus resurrected Lazarus.
Jesus said he was going to "awaken" him. Which he did, and Lazarus was brought back to life, then lived that life and died a second time..for good..until the promised resurrection. Jesus stated..He is dead.. No mention here of a separate part of Lazarus wandering about. So my point is. What causes ghostly anomolies. It is demons, directed by Satan the Devil. and if you want proof, have a look at Revelation 12; 7-9. & 12.

SAILORMAN said:

It is demons, directed by Satan the Devil. and if you want proof, have a look at Revelation 12; 7-9. & 12.

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This is a classic case of projection. There is no Devil or demons. These are metaphors, an attempt to name our inner energies and project them outward.

Runt said:

Yes! Like a metaphycial videotape showing a being at a certain time in his or her life but not actually being that being. I would guess that if ghosts do exist, and if I am right that they are not wandering souls so much as an imprint of a creature's life at a specific point in space, then they are created something like this: an important event in a human life that had a huge impact on them, charged with emotion, is strong enough to live an imprint. Unfortunatly, I think violence and death are VERY descriptive of that kind of emotionally charged event, which may account for the fact that ghosts often seem frightening.

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But, if you are right, then ghosts don't really exist, right? They ARE merely figments of peoples' imaginations. Of course, even if you agree with that, I don't mostly.

so we can have Deamons but not Ghosts....

I dont get it....

wa:-do

ghost and spirit are synonyms..
demon is an evil type..

In my experience, what is commonly referred to as demons are not evil at all. Especially the ones that make you cold. They are simply spirits that feed off of other spirits to stay alive. This does not make them evil, it is only survival. Good, evil, demons, angels, fairies, gnomes, etc... They are all subjective metaphors caused by our subjective perception of them.

LilChrist--

Is a footprint or a movie a figment of your imagination? No, they are very real.

true blood said:

ghost and spirit are synonyms..
demon is an evil type..

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I still don't see how you get "all ghosts are evil" from that. Tis not logical.