• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Feminist Movement : Effect or No?

Bishka

Veteran Member
This thread is similar to the "Japanese-Americans Internment in US : Appropriate vs. Inappropriate", and the poll is coming from the same website. I was suprised to find this as the statistics for this poll:
  • Of the 20763 visitors who have voted, 9% believed the feminist movement was effective in impoving the lives of American women while 91% felt it had little or no effect.
What do you think? Was the feminist movement effective or has it destroyed America sas we know it? Do you long to go back with the mother in the kitchen and the father at work? What are your views, opinions, feelings, etc. on it?
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
The orignal feminist movement was effective in improving and providing equality for women. I think that from the 1960's to 1970's it went off the deep end. I am not sure what to think of the current feminist movement.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
People who want to repress others often start with repressing women. It's therefore of some importance that the feminist movement is under attack today.
 

Ardent Listener

Active Member
This thread is similar to the "Japanese-Americans Internment in US : Appropriate vs. Inappropriate", and the poll is coming from the same website. I was suprised to find this as the statistics for this poll:
  • Of the 20763 visitors who have voted, 9% believed the feminist movement was effective in impoving the lives of American women while 91% felt it had little or no effect.
What do you think? Was the feminist movement effective or has it destroyed America sas we know it? Do you long to go back with the mother in the kitchen and the father at work? What are your views, opinions, feelings, etc. on it?

If feel it was, or maybe in some cases still is, effective in improving the lives of women. One negative effect of the feminist movement was the anti-male stance that some of its member took or take. IMO, when you start to become anti-anyone you open the door to problems.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
If feel it was, or maybe in some cases still is, effective in improving the lives of women. One negative effect of the feminist movement was the anti-male stance that some of its member took or take. IMO, when you start to become anti-anyone you open the door to problems.

That's what I see today; is this anti-male stance that is heavily infiltrating the movement these days.
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
If feel it was, or maybe in some cases still is, effective in improving the lives of women. One negative effect of the feminist movement was the anti-male stance that some of its member took or take. IMO, when you start to become anti-anyone you open the door to problems.
I agree and it's why I don't consider myself a feminist. Obviously I don't have a problem with equal rights for women (being a woman and all), but when it starts pushing past that into better rights for women, I have a problem with that.
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
The very definition of feminism revolves around giving women and men equal rights, both politically and socially. Anyone that advocates more rights for women is NOT a feminist. Femi-nazi perhaps? :)
 

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
First wave of feminism=effective
Second wave of feminism=mixed bag
Thrid wave of feminism=underway, fixing what the second wave failed at

(I'll go more in depth on this in relation to the OP later)
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
I'd like to know what problems resulted from the feminist movement. While we have some women who want to throw the car in second gear and have women dominate men, they are few and far between, and they have not even remotely achieved their goals.

I've found that a lot [not all] of men/boys who oppose feminism hold radical views of their own [women shouldn't have the right to vote, shouldn't hold positions of power, shouldn't work if married]. Often feminists are [wrongly] blamed for the peaks in pre-marital sex -- sorry to touch on something controversial, but it takes two to have intercourse, and since the '70s open sex is not as devastating as some would like to claim.

I'm not saying there isn't a correlation between the feminist movement/sexual revolution and divorce rates, but we shouldn't be too quick to call this a problem. Women no longer have to stay in a bad/unfaithful/abusive relationship for the rest of their lives [or until their spouse dies] or worry about being shunned from society, or worse yet, ending up poor. Education and public awareness is beginning to shine a light on the '50s -- the "golden years" according to some, and it's not looking so pretty.

I don't want to focus on sex, but there's no denying the feminist movement and Sexual Revolution complimented each other. Unfortunately pundits have used some alleged set-backs to attack the two movements.
 

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
First wave of feminism=effective
Second wave of feminism=mixed bag
Thrid wave of feminism=underway, fixing what the second wave failed at

(I'll go more in depth on this in relation to the OP later)

Alright, now that I'm back from orchestra rehearsel... :D

beckysoup61 said:
What do you think? Was the feminist movement effective or has it destroyed America sas we know it?

If we're going to look at the feminist movement and the results of it, it is probably best to look at it in the way some academics have broken it down (the three waves). The feminist movement in the United States has had different goals at different times and had periods of time where it wasn't really that active at all.

The first wave of feminism did acheive its main goal in the end, as well as gaining women some other rights. The first wave of feminism was the women's suffrage movement, in which the Seneca Falls Convention in 1848 was the catalyst. It took until 1920, but women did eventually get the vote. Therefore, the first wave of feminism was effective, and after women having the vote for approximately 85 years, we can see that giving women the vote hasn't destroyed America.

After the first wave, the feminist movement was practically dormant until the 1960s. The 1960s brought about the second wave of feminism, in which Betty Friedan's The Feminine Mystique was an influential work. The Commission on the Status of Women of the Kennedy administration showed that women faced inequalities. The major push in the second wave was to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. It wasn't the sole goal of the second wave, but it was the one of the major ones. As we know, the Equal Rights Amendment never passed (thus the second wave was ineffective in this regard). However, there were many pieces of legislation and some executive orders that improved the condition of women during the second wave. Because of the Commission on the Status of Women, Congress passed the Equal Pay Act of 1963. However, in order to pass the legislation, advocates had to give up on the concept of "equal pay for comparable work" for "equal pay for the same work." Though women still are not being paid at the same rate of men, even to this day, the pay gap is closing. Therefore, the second wave could be considered effective in this regard. In 1964, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was originally intended only to alleviate racial discrimination in education, employment, and public accomodations, but a Southern Democratic congressman proposed that Title VII (dealing with employment discrimination) sex be included in the hopes that adding sex would result in the defeat of the Civil Rights Act. The Civil Rights Act did pass, though, and thus women were protected from discrimination in employment, which is good, but some problems did arise in how to handle employment discriminiation and such (I won't go into that). Also passed were the Education Amendments, also known as Title IX. These were passed in 1972 in the aims of alleciating discrimination against women in eduation, specifiying that federal funds wouldn't go to educational institutions that practiced sex discrimination in any of their programs (admissions, athletics, financial aid, counseling, facilities, employment, etc.). Title IX has been controversial when it comes to athletic programs because sometimes less popular men's sports were cut so more popular women's sports could receive equal funding. The Reagan administration took a lackadaisical appraoch in enforcing Title IX. President Johnson issued executive orders 11246 and 11375 that required companies doing work with the federal government to take affirmative action. Therefore, we can see that the second wave accomplished quite a bit, but failed at getting the Equal Rights Amendment passed and some of the second wave's acheivements have been a sort of mixed bag once put in place. Of course, Supreme Court decisions such as Griswold v. Conneticut in 1965 and Roe v. Wade in 1973 resulted in women gaining some more reproductive freedom (Griswold establishing a right to privacy and dealing with contraceptive use and of course we all know Roe v. Wade).

It was also the second wave that gave rise to radical feminism ("making the personal political"), which is what anti-feminists like to criticize all of feminism as being. There are actually several feminist ideologies.

So thus, the second wave is a mixed bag of effectiveness, if that makes sense. :)

I'm not as well read in depthly on the third wave of feminism, but its aim is to finish what the second wave started. The Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill hearings inspired a lot of third wave feminists and some of the issues of third wave feminism overlap with issues of the first two waves, such as women in employment, quality and affordable child care, reproductive rights, etc. Social justice issues also play a role to many third feminists, such as issues of racism and poverty. We have yet to see how effective the third wave is. There has been what many feminists would consider a set back, with the recent Supreme Court decision in Gonzales v. Carhart that upheld the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. So, we'll see what happens with the third wave.

As you can see, feminism is more complex than many would think. Overall, I think the feminist movement has been quite effective, but there's still a ways to go yet. Also, I don't think it has destroyed America, but made America a stronger, more free country.

I really doubt anyone's even going to read this post. :D If you did, have a cookie. :cookie:
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
This thread is similar to the "Japanese-Americans Internment in US : Appropriate vs. Inappropriate", and the poll is coming from the same website. I was suprised to find this as the statistics for this poll:
  • Of the 20763 visitors who have voted, 9% believed the feminist movement was effective in impoving the lives of American women while 91% felt it had little or no effect.
What do you think? Was the feminist movement effective or has it destroyed America sas we know it? Do you long to go back with the mother in the kitchen and the father at work? What are your views, opinions, feelings, etc. on it?
The feminist is the only reason why women have the right to vote. The only reason why we're not still barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. I don't see how anyone can say it wasn't effective.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
The feminist is the only reason why women have the right to vote. The only reason why we're not still barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. I don't see how anyone can say it wasn't effective.


The part was effective, but about the after effect of the ones who want to be 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen'; like myself? I'm constnatly being looked-down upon because I was to be a housewife, stay-at-home mum -- should something be done about that?

~Becky :)
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
The part was effective, but about the after effect of the ones who want to be 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen'; like myself? I'm constnatly being looked-down upon because I was to be a housewife, stay-at-home mum -- should something be done about that?

~Becky :)
There is nothing wrong with being a housewife (or a househusband for that matter). It's harder work than most people give credit for. That's not the same thing as the 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen' ideal which basically sees women as little more than baby-making machines who also cook and clean.

I agree that some women look down on women who want a more traditional role. They are misguided. The whole point of giving women more freedom and rights is so that women can actually choose for ourselves. If we're not allowed to choose a more traditional role then we are being not allowed to choose.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
There is nothing wrong with being a housewife (or a househusband for that matter). It's harder work than most people give credit for. That's not the same thing as the 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen' ideal which basically sees women as little more than baby-making machines who also cook and clean.

I agree that some women look down on women who want a more traditional role. They are misguided. The whole point of giving women more freedom and rights is so that women can actually choose for ourselves. If we're not allowed to choose a more traditional role then we are being not allowed to choose.

Absolutley agreed. :D
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the cookie.

The feminist movement was absolutely necessary. I certainly won't argue that. I don't like the attitude it has created in a lot of people, both men and women. Therefore, I disassociate myself with the movement. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in equality. It means I believe in going about it a different way.

As far as the ban on partial-birth abortion goes, it makes me sick. We're backsliding on women's rights in that arena. On other fronts though, I just see feminists pushing to hard and alienating men in the process and I can't agree with that. :shrug:
 

Mercy Not Sacrifice

Well-Known Member
There's not a lot more that I can add. :)

I agree that feminism was, and to an extent still is, necessary. Women deserved a lot more than society gave them; by and large, feminism helped to solve that. They deserved the right to work full-time, receive the same pay as men for the same task, own and manage property, and make their own decisions.

Unfortunately, at some point a few decades ago, it turned away from a utopian desire for higher standards of life for both sexes, and instead began a club for women to emotionally not just beat up men but themselves as well. Once this threshold was crossed, their power to influence degraded into a power to repel people.

Where feminism leaves a great deal to be desired and frankly, is failing both women and men, is in its stance on romance. I'm very sorry, but pursuing a member of the opposite sex is normal and natural, and as long as "no means no" is heeded, there is nothing wrong with acting on these desires.

That said, that is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Society still needs feminism, but not at the expense of that society.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
Let's see. As woman I can vote, I can drive, I can wear pants, I can hold a job that's not a teacher or a secretary, I can choose to be a housewife, I can own property, I can make my own decisions in my life, my husband can't beat me, I can go to college, I can choose to use birth control, I can choose if I want to have children, I can't be masturbated by a doctor for "medical treatment", I can hold public office, I can get custody of my children...

No, feminism has had no effect and has done nothing for me. :p


I'm also wondering where all these man-hating feminists that seem to be just everywhere are.

I've never met someone who described themselves as feminist and as hating men. Not in any feminist group I'm in, not in any women's studies classes I have taken, not in the department of women's studies here at OSU, not any of my feminst friends are, never seen one at the women events I've been to...

Honestly, where are these man-hating feminists?


This sort of smacks of there being extremists of some religion (and it could be argued they aren't really following that religion, I don't know of a single religion that promotes violence) and that makes all members terrorists... Hating men is not part of feminism no matter how many times someone just insists it is.

We're currently in the third-wave of American feminism. It picked up with the realisation that not all women are the same and are affected in different ways because of their race, class, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, ability, and so and and actively fights against those oppressions as all oppressions are linked. It also sees a link between the oppression of the earth and oppression of women and is pro-environmentalist.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
I'm also wondering where all these man-hating feminists that seem to be just everywhere are.
I have met a couple. Just as I have met so-called feminists who would denigrate any woman who wants to stay at home and raise the kids. But just as small minority of extremists in a religion should not be taken to represent the whole religion (and yet people do anyway), a small minority of extremists in feminism should not be taken to represent the whole movement (and yet people do anyway).

I understand why those in power would want to portray the extremists as representing all of the movement. It serves to discredit the whole movement and preserve the status quo (or go backwards). But I sometimes have trouble understanding why many women so easily buy into this "extremist" picture that's presented. Why would we so easily desert a movement that has empowered us?
 

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
Ðanisty;806718 said:
Thanks for the cookie.

The feminist movement was absolutely necessary. I certainly won't argue that. I don't like the attitude it has created in a lot of people, both men and women. Therefore, I disassociate myself with the movement. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in equality. It means I believe in going about it a different way.

As far as the ban on partial-birth abortion goes, it makes me sick. We're backsliding on women's rights in that arena. On other fronts though, I just see feminists pushing to hard and alienating men in the process and I can't agree with that. :shrug:

I understand that some of the feminist perspectives tend to go into men-hating. However, one should keep in mind that feminism is a diverse ideology with liberal feminism, radical feminism, Marxist-socialist feminism, global feminism, black feminism, eco-feminism, gender feminism, etc. It's just, I don't see so many of these radical or men-hating feminists for as much as people talk about them. It seems like people are taking the whole feminist movement and just reducing it to radical feminism or lesbian separitism and such. Feminism is much more complex than that. (Not saying you are doing this, just using your post as a springing point about how the opposition of the feminist movement reduces it to the radical forms in order to criticize it, ignoring a wide-array of feminist perspectives).
 
Top