Texas may enact capital punishment for sex offenders

Guitar's Cry · Apr 26, 2007

Mister_T said:
It's only a disadvantage to the rage fueled adult if somebody knows how to exploit it. Having been a teacher of Hapki-do, I'm quite familiar the concepts of self defense. And you are correct about surroundings and responses. Sometimes though that isn't enough.

I think I know which ones you're talking about. Make a grown man want to cry. I while I don't fully agree with using such methods, after hearing the case that I posted earleir in the thread one can't help but consider such things a possible motivator.

I never said it would completely eliminate it, but I think it is possible that it will decrease it dramatically.

I think we've reached an impasse in our debate for now. (Or maybe I just can't provide anything new at the moment.)

But, I admit, you do have me thinking more about this issue.

I still remain firm that capitol punishment isn't the best way to go in many cases (though I think I would support it in others).

Mister_T said:
Apparently, the consensus in a lot of societies say yes. If you are cold blooded enough to rape and kill a six year old boy, then I would say yes. That is one of the most vile acts a person can commit.

I'm thinking more philosophically here. Is a person's right to live something that can be forfeited? We are born without a choice in the matter. Our right to live exists simply because we live. When someone murders another person, they are not forfeiting their right to live because really, they don't own it. No one does. Life can be taken away, but not the right to live.

bflydad · Apr 26, 2007

Just for the sake of a new voice...

While capital punishment is a deterrent for many crimes, I don't think it is for pedophilia. These people are mentally sick. Capital punishment won't deter them.

Although in our society, capital punishment is not less expensive than life in prison, that is not true in all societies. Give them a trial, if found guilty, give them one appeal. If they lose that appeal, execute them with 30 days. Then we can take the money we would have spent on them and use it to feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the sick, ... (not to mention provide some counseling to the poor victims of this particular crime).

It is true we convict innocent people. If we then kill them, there is no chance to say "oops" later. But, in this society, while tragic, I would tolerate killing 5?10? innocent people in a year if it increased the safety of 300 million or if it allowed thousands more to be fed, clothed, sheltered, cared for, ... I am not saying it wouldn't be tragic, but I think we as a society put the interests of the individual above the well-being of the society.

Lastly, I think the example of the sniper is invalid. Killing a person to prevent the imminent death of others AND to protect one's own life is different then killing a defenseless individual. With that said, I am willing to take the possibly bad kharma on my soul for endorsing capital punishment in some cases.

Moey · Apr 26, 2007

Very well said.

Jessica Magan · Apr 26, 2007

GeneCosta said:
Our prison systems are overflowing with inmates because of the failed War on Drugs. To claim that abolishing capital punishment would put children in more danger is ridiculous; sparing the life of a rapist does not result in the child being raped again. The death penalty does come down to revenge. It costs more than life in prison, does not have a record of deterrence, is fallible, is not blind to gender and race, and most importantly steals human life.

I never suggested that most prisoners were sex offenders. I am simply pointing out that in all the times we have tried to rehabilitate these offenders we come up short again and again. I personally detest feeding and clothing a person who could steal a child's innocence. I know it is off this particular subject but my cousin Sarah who was my dearest friend and the mother of a beautiful little girl was stolen from her loved ones by her boyfriend. What he did to her was so brutal I can't post it on this sight.He received life without parole. Part of me excepts this and another part is hurt and angry at the fact his family still gets to see him and hear his voice. He still has a voice though Sarah has been silenced. It has been five years and I still wake up crying in my sleep for her. I just wanted to give a voice to the victims. I hope you understand.

Mathematician · Apr 26, 2007

Reading this thread in 2007, I'm appauled to find people even suggesting that we should bring back castration and hanging. Also, if anyone is going to claim I don't care about the victims, I'm not going to even bother debating.

Sane people would order the men to fire. What I'm getting at is that I think any reasonable/sane person will admit that there comes a time to end someones life when they start to threaten our citizens lives.

There is a blatant difference between your scenario and someone who has been apprehended. If you don't see that, there's no point in continuing our debate. We'd have each reached a stone wall.

You forfeit your rights as a citizen(which include the right to live) when you take the life of someone else.

Where is that written? I don't adhere to that belief.

Torturing a six year old by raping him (which the family took turns doing) and then choking the life out of his little body isn't a good enough reason? Preventing this evil person from ever having a chance to commit such acts again isn't good enough?

Again: there is no good reason to take someone's life; even in cases of self-defense where killing an offender is a necessity, not a good cause. It's never good to harm someone, period. Society should grow out of the school boy fighting on the playground mindset. We'd get a lot more done than seeking revenge on each other.

You're right. What he needs is more rehabilitation. Tough luck for the family of that little boy, this poor soul just wasn't rehabilitated enough. He needs help. It's ok after he gets out on parole in another 40 years and kills another child, he just needed more rehabilitation. Lets' rehabilitate him until he's dead from old age! Let's make taxpayers pay for his food and shelter and rehabilitation! Even though he doesn't deserve the sweat off a horses butt.

Straw man. Before you attack my position you should reread the thread in its entirety. Also, I'd appreciate it if you stop tugging on the idea of me being unsympathetic towards the victim and family. That's a disgusting claim.

Somebody tell me what's wrong with Antartica. I'm still waiting for that.

Building prisons there? Sure. Just dropping them off? No.

I never suggested that most prisoners were sex offenders. I am simply pointing out that in all the times we have tried to rehabilitate these offenders we come up short again and again. I personally detest feeding and clothing a person who could steal a child's innocence. I know it is off this particular subject but my cousin Sarah who was my dearest friend and the mother of a beautiful little girl was stolen from her loved ones by her boyfriend. What he did to her was so brutal I can't post it on this sight.He received life without parole. Part of me excepts this and another part is hurt and angry at the fact his family still gets to see him and hear his voice. He still has a voice though Sarah has been silenced. It has been five years and I still wake up crying in my sleep for her. I just wanted to give a voice to the victims. I hope you understand.

I'm very sorry to hear that. :flower: I understand why you would feel the way you do, but respectfully, I disagree on the method of killing the criminal.

Mister_T · Apr 27, 2007

GeneCosta said:
Where is that written? I don't adhere to that belief.

Whatever state has capital punishment. And you don't have to.

GeneCosta said:
Again: there is no good reason to take someone's life; even in cases of self-defense where killing an offender is a necessity, not a good cause. It's never good to harm someone, period. Society should grow out of the school boy fighting on the playground mindset. We'd get a lot more done than seeking revenge on each other.

I never said it was a pleasant idea. It's not about playgroud fighting, or revenge (not mainly anyways), or any other type of "machoism." It's about protecting children. Something that I've been restating constantly in this thread. Take your own advice about reading threads in their entierity before attacking. Shoe doesn't taste good from what I hear.

Protecting lives of innocent children as oppose to supporting a murderer, is plenty good enough reason for the death penalty. It amazes me that people would defend the "rights" of child murderers.

GeneCosta said:
Straw man. Before you attack my position you should reread the thread in its entirety. Also, I'd appreciate it if you stop tugging on the idea of me being unsympathetic towards the victim and family. That's a disgusting claim.

Cop out. You could always take away the part about the "unsympathetic feelings" instead of hiding behind it. Here, I'll do it for you:

You're right. What he needs is more rehabilitation. This poor soul just wasn't rehabilitated enough. He needs help. It's ok after he gets out on parole in another 40 years and kills another child, he just needed more rehabilitation. Lets' rehabilitate him until he's dead from old age! Let's make taxpayers pay for his food and shelter and rehabilitation

Tell me how "rehabilitating" a murderer until he's dead, who wasn't rehabilitated the first time he was locked up, is productive and or fruitful to society? Why should taxes be wasted on people who have no regard, respect, for life? Why should we pay for his food and housing when we could use that money to help others who deserve it?

GeneCosta said:
Building prisons there? Sure. Just dropping them off? No.

Build them an igloo and give them a fishing pole. Let them fend for themselves. Why not just drop them off? Why waste taxpayers money? You let them live without wasting money. Solves both problems of capital punishment and wasted tax dollars.

GeneCosta said:
Reading this thread in 2007, I'm appauled to find people even suggesting that we should bring back castration and hanging.

Whatever it takes to save the lives of innocent children. Again, it's not pleasent and no one gets any joy out of it.

Mathematician · Apr 27, 2007

Whatever state has capital punishment. And you don't have to.

I see. I thought you were refering to a moral revelation.

Well, certain states would object to that definition.

Cop out. You could always take away the part about the "unsympathetic feelings" instead of hiding behind it. Here, I'll do it for you:

Again, if you would have read my other posts in this thread, you would realize I support life in prison or a mental institution without possibility of parol for real offenders (not consensual sex between minors or 19 on 17 year olds), and of course, if new evidence arises, they should be allowed to bring their case back to court. I support this because they're still a danger to society. Prisons' primary purpose should be to rehabilitate criminals -- it would decrease prison violence as well as affect the outside world when people ARE released.

If we ever crack the code to fixing these diseases, then yes, I would reconsider even that. Paint them however you want. Rapists are human, just like thieves, war criminals, cops, you, me, the guy working the counter.

Why not just drop them off? Why waste taxpayers money? You let them live without wasting money. Solves both problems of capital punishment and wasted tax dollars.

"Fend for themselves." We do not promote anarchy, even for criminals.
Also, if money is a real concern, then address the real black hole. We waste a lot more taxpayer dollars on nonviolent criminals than rapists and murderers.

Mister_T · Apr 27, 2007

GenCosta said:
Again, if you would have read my other posts in this thread, you would realize I support life in prison or a mental institution without possibility of parol

I've been fully aware of what you support. Something you seem to be failing to understand is that in these particular cases, I don't. That has nothing to do with my reading comprehension skills.

GeneCosta said:
for real offenders (not consensual sex between minors or 19 on 17 year olds)

Totally agree with you there.

GeneCosta said:
Prisons' primary purpose should be to rehabilitate criminals -- it would decrease prison violence as well as affect the outside world when people ARE released.

Prison's primary purpose has failed then. If you read the link I posted before, this guy was already in jail for molesting children. Our wonderful system let him back out on the streets and him and his family ganged rape and murdered a six year old boy. Rehabilitation is not working. You still haven't answered this question:
How many more innocent children have to die because we want to be "humane"?

Would you trade the lives of child predators for the lives of innocent children? These scum don't deserve to live.

GenCosta said:
If we ever crack the code to fixing these diseases, then yes, I would reconsider even that. Paint them however you want. Rapists are human, just like thieves, war criminals, cops, you, me, the guy working the counter.

Sorry man, there's no code. These people are just evil. They have a sick pleasure. It makes them feel good. If there was a "code" we would have found it by now. There was no "code" when they studied John Wayne Gacy's brain....when he was alive and after he was dead. There was nothing abnormal about his brain. It was as normal as any other persons. He did not fit ANY psychological profiles associated with serial killers.

And the major part of being human is knowing the difference between right and wrong, having a conscious and self contol of your free thoughts. It's what separates us from animals. Without those, you're just an animal. That's what these people in that article are....animals.

GeneCosta said:
"Fend for themselves." We do not promote anarchy, even for criminals.

No, we don't promote anarchy. Which is why we have the death penalty to dispose of these individuals.

Leave them in in a 8x10 cell....leave them in a frozen waste land....what's the difference? "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" is what you're doing. One just doesn't have taxpayers paying for their food or shelter. They want to act like animals, they can be animals.....away from society.

GenCosta said:
Also, if money is a real concern, then address the real black hole. We waste a lot more taxpayer dollars on nonviolent criminals

No arguments here. They throw people in jail for getting into bar fights for crying out loud.

Mister_T · Apr 27, 2007

Guitars Cry said:
But, I admit, you do have me thinking more about this issue. I still remain firm that capitol punishment isn't the best way to go in many cases (though I think I would support it in others).

I agree with you. I don't think capitol punishment is the best decision in many cases. In this particular case, I do.

Guitars Cry said:
I'm thinking more philosophically here. Is a person's right to live something that can be forfeited? We are born without a choice in the matter. Our right to live exists simply because we live. When someone murders another person, they are not forfeiting their right to live because really, they don't own it. No one does. Life can be taken away, but not the right to live

Hmmm....I was thinking in more social terms.

wicca_woman · Apr 27, 2007

I was one of these children...I say HANG 'EM !

Guitar's Cry · Apr 27, 2007

wicca_woman said:
I was one of these children...I say HANG 'EM !

I was, too, and I say "Not quite yet..."

Guitar's Cry · Apr 27, 2007

Mister_T said:
I agree with you. I don't think capitol punishment is the best decision in many cases. In this particular case, I do.

Hmmm....I was thinking in more social terms.

Shall we call it a truce then?

Moey · Apr 27, 2007

Do you really think there is a way to rehabilitate these people?

Mister_T · Apr 27, 2007

Guitar's Cry said:
Shall we call it a truce then?

Sounds good to me. Truce it is.

Texas may enact capital punishment for sex offenders

Guitar's Cry

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bflydad

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Moey

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Jessica Magan

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Mathematician

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Guitar's Cry

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Moey

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