Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I feel like this is pretty close to my own view. I support improving the rights of females, but also feel like some of the problems males face are rooted in similar problems to the ones females face.
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Do You Identify as a Feminist?
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
- Start date
I feel like this is pretty close to my own view. I support improving the rights of females, but also feel like some of the problems males face are rooted in similar problems to the ones females face.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Not.
Feminism has become hatred for men.
Whatever it originally was is long gone.
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Equality of the sexes? They'll be letting them vote next.
But yeah, apart from that why wouldn't you be a feminist? Equality for all.
But yeah, apart from that why wouldn't you be a feminist? Equality for all.
I think that sort of describes me, too. But I feel that way about everybody -- so long as one is doing no (intentional) harm, I believe in universality of rights equality (at least of opportunity, though nobody can guarantee equality of outcomes, no even the means of opportunity) for everyone.
I have had several female bosses on jobs. I work with many female employees. There are some challenges such as mutual attraction and crushes and sexual tension. Most of my coworkers are women. It takes some effort not to let it affect me, and sometimes it does affect me. Sometimes it is also embarrassing. It confuses many people, and it can cause problems when men and women work alongside one another. It is not impossible, and it is not unworkable. We can work together. We ignore sex and gender as much as possible. We do not comment upon sexual differences, tell someone they are handsome or pretty, etc.
I believe that co-ed work is still experimental. We are still discovering how best to let men and women work together. There are many differences, and it is not always easy. There are worries as well as civil liabilities to consider. One of the problems is that there is no clear protocol for what to do if you are interested in someone. This means that there are civil liabilities to consider if you flirt. You could fired or sued. You could also be fired or sued if you do not flirt, or you could be considered unfriendly or unintelligent.
There are some problems that have not been resolved, yet. I think it is a worthwhile experiment, and I think that men and women will continue to work together. I think that things will improve as we discover the most stable ways of making this a good situation. It is certainly better than it was in the 1950's and 1960's.
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Feminism in the 1500's to 1700's meant 1 man and 1 wife, and the wife was a person not property. This was a serious improvement over some previous arrangements. At this time the term 'Feminism' had not yet been coined; but the idea of improving life for women has always been around. They have always had a more difficult time due to their health needs, smaller bodies, shorter lifespans and difficult child-rearing burdens.
In more recent centuries women suffrage became a public issue. Many women desired to have the vote.
More recently women wanted to have full access to jobs like men. This is 1970's feminism. We are still working out the details. I am a feminist according to this. I already believe women should vote, and I believe they should have access to jobs.
More recently than that there are '3rd Wave' feminists, and they employ a jargon that is impenetrable without heavy reading. Many opponents of 3rd Wave believe it is a cynical view of the world and a reworked form of Marxism, postmodernist, believing that all things must be completely rethought. Many 3rd Wave feminists deny that physical biology is the reason that there are men and women, and they say instead that male and female are social constructs. This is very difficult to take seriously. I certainly don't feel like these are social constructs, so I think that the idea of 3rd Wave must be to provoke further discussion. I don't see how they could actually believe that male and female have no biological meaning. Politically, though, there seems to be a political attempt to disenfranchise male and female differences. I think that this political force has resulted in a counter-movement to 3rd Wave.
How has it become hatred for men? Do you think that's an accurate and fair assessment of feminism in general or perhaps a fringe minority therein?
There are two points that I think are worth highlighting here:
- Postmodernism is largely at odds with much of Marxist thought. While some Marxists might choose to embrace some postmodern principles, most Marxist ideologies have long been different from postmodernism, sometimes to the point of being their polar opposite in some ways.
- Most third-wave feminists I have seen don't deny that the male and female sexes are based in biology. However, gender is what is usually contested as being rooted in biology, and this is not just from the perspectives of third-wave feminists. Current scientific consensus regards gender as different from sex.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I don’t identify as feminist, no. As a man I’d feel a bit cringe labelling myself that way; like I find middle class white people wearing BLM badges a bit cringe.
I do believe in equal rights and justice for all; and that all human beings have equal value in the eyes of God.
Now, where’s my blooming dinner?
I do believe in equal rights and justice for all; and that all human beings have equal value in the eyes of God.
Now, where’s my blooming dinner?
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Dunno, what have you made?
I also tend to avoid going out of my way to label myself a feminist not because of any disagreement with feminist ideals but because I know that loudly self-identifying as such could come across as insincere or fishing for compliments. I try to let my actions and positions do the talking instead.
When I was about 9-10ish, my mom wasn't feeling well, and asked my dad to make dinner. He said "there are four 'women' in this house(my mother, me, my kindergarten aged sister, and my infant sister); I'm not making any dinner."
My mom told us to get our coats. Us 'women' had dinner at an upscale restaurant, and dad stayed home and had canned soup. Not another word was said.
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
I work in a department consisting of 16 females and me. I tell you, I know my place 
Have you considered that not everybody is heterosexual? As a gay man (and therefore a gay worker, leader, manager, director and executive), I've worked with people to whom I was very attracted indeed.
Now, I admit that there was another bar to my just blurting out, "Hey, gorgeous, wanna get it on?" than perhaps straight people feel. But I assure you, looked at from that perspective, you might see that it's not really so hard to quash inappropriate impulses.
I have an article I wrote about it here:
What is Feminism, and how does it relate to Animus Individuation?
Basically, feminism is bringing the cultural nomos (dubbed The Patriarchy by feminists) into consciousness and critically examining it.
Yes. Being of the Left-Hand Path persuasion, I am all for critiquing the cultural nomos, whether it be through a feminist lens or otherwise.
No, you're right...unless you're alone. In my case I find myself experiencing a gravity that is only in my mind and bends my attention. This distracts me. Its like floating in a cloud and is an extra daydream that keeps coming back. It costs me time at work. I'm supposed to treat everyone equally, but I just don't see everyone in the same way. I do quash inappropriate impulses when I am aware of them though.
I've learned how to make canned soup.
Trust me, I get it. In spades!
And I wasn't always 100% innocent! Thank goodness those who were the object of my transgressions were forgiving.