Bible is moral relativism!

Spiderman · Jan 21, 2023

I have never seen any atheist or communist write something that is such an extreme example of moral relativism as the Bible. To make it more ridiculous, the biggest condemners of moral relativism, are people who think the Bible is without error.

The Bible says God is love , but causes women labor pains, and gives everyone a death penalty because his daughter ate an apple he told her not to.

God is love but murdered 70,000 people with pestilence because a king took a census he didn't like , which the victims were not guilt of.

God is love but he has a man dragged out petrified and stoned to death for picking up sticks on sabbath. That is possibly as extreme in stupidity as radical Muslim extremist groups like ISIS killing children for watching soccer after they were warned not to.

God is love but he requires his favorite son to be stripped down naked, flogged, crowned with thorns, and die naked nailed to a cross, blaspheming that his father has abandoned him, to satisfy the wrath of God.

Scripture says God creates evil and murders all the first born babies and children who don't have sheep's blood smeared on their doorposts in Egypt.

Christians say God is pro life, but the Bible accuses him of murdering more unborn babies than all planned parenthood abortion clinics since it's founding.

God was going to exterminate over 99% of the Jews in the wilderness, right after freeing them from slavery, a worse holocaust extermination of Jews than the third Reich, and the only thing that stopped him, was Moses convinced God that his plans are evil, and Moses has a better idea.

Scripture says "God repented of the evil he planned on doing to Israel". So, God repents of evil. God repents of sin. Exterminating more Jews, with children and pregnant women, than the third Reich is a sin, evil, no?

Therefore , the Bible says God is perfect, he doesn't sin. The Bible says , "God is evil, God creates evil", God rewards Jacob with the greatest blessing for lying , deceiving, stealing , and then praised for fighting God and winning.

It is the epitome of moral relativism , saying opposite things are true.

I'm not saying give up on faith. Just try to help God reform, and realize he is worse than the God's and Goddesses he is jealous of. Help your Dad, your Father , by pointing out his errors. Help him rehabilitate.

King Phenomenon · Jan 21, 2023

I think you're reading too much into it unfortunately.

Spiderman · Jan 21, 2023

Moon said:
I think you're reading too much into it unfortunately.

Could you please explain how what I said is incorrect or irrational?

lewisnotmiller · Jan 22, 2023

Spiderman said:
Could you please explain how what I said is incorrect or irrational?

It wasn't, but it is a particular view (and one shared by some atheists).

To me the simplest way of looking at this type of philosophical or theological question, if you want input from religious folks, is to pick a single example, and ask them their views on it.

For example, you could ask them whether they believe in a literal great flood, and if so, how could a loving God justify it?

Perhaps their belief systems don't see these things as literal. Perhaps they don't see God as omnibenevolent, etc. For some it might be that God is moral by definition, but this does not grant the same exoneration of humans who act in 'similar' ways.

But certainly it's a question you can fairly pursue.

1213 · Jan 22, 2023

Spiderman said:
I have never seen any atheist or communist write something that is such an extreme example of moral relativism as the Bible. To make it more ridiculous, the biggest condemners of moral relativism, are people who think the Bible is without error.
...

Again I think you are judging wrongly, judging it by your imaginary view of how and what really happened, instead of knowing enough for right judgment.

nPeace · Jan 22, 2023

Spiderman said:
I have never seen any atheist or communist write something that is such an extreme example of moral relativism as the Bible. To make it more ridiculous, the biggest condemners of moral relativism, are people who think the Bible is without error.

I think you are trying to look at the situation reasonably, and that's very good.
Only, I think it's reasonable to consider whether we have all the facts, or not.
That way, we can be certain that we are being both reasonable, and humble.

I know the Bible can seem confusing sometimes, but I think humility, helps us remove some of those seeming confusing elements.
So, let's consider your assessment, one at a time.

Spiderman said:
The Bible says God is love , but causes women labor pains, and gives everyone a death penalty because his daughter ate an apple he told her not to.

When we read in the Bible, that God says "I will do A", is it the case that it means God did A?

Consider...

Did God harden Pharaoh's heart? Exodus 14:17
(1 Samuel 6:6) . . .Why should you harden your heart as Egypt and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? . . .
Exodus 7:13; Exodus 8:15; Exodus 8:32; Exodus 9:34-35;

Pharaoh's heart was already hardened. Pharaoh was arrogant - stubborn.
So God saying he will harden Pharaoh's heart, meant simply, that God allowed Pharaoh to continue to be stubborn... to his death.
God did not humble Pharaoh, like he did Nebuchadnezzar, who later returned to his stubbornness. (Romans 9:17, 18)

This is seen too from the fact that God appealed to Pharaoh's heart.
(Exodus 9:13-17) 13 ...“Send my people away so that they may serve me. 14 For now I am directing all my blows to strike your heart, your servants, and your people, so that you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. 15 For by now I could have thrust my hand out to strike you and your people with a devastating plague, and you would have been wiped out from the earth. 16 But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have my name declared in all the earth. 17 Are you still behaving arrogantly against my people by not sending them away?

Did God bring the Chaldeans against Israel? Ezekiel 23:22-24; 2 Kings 24:1-4

The Chaldeans, along with surrounding nations, were already enemies, of Israel, and were in the habit of attacking Israel, to conquer them.
Usually, God protected his people, and even fought for them, however, God allowed the surrounding nations to conquer the rebellious Jews, for their breaking their covenant with him.
That was part of the agreement.
It was conditional.

This is seen too, from the fact that God repaid the Babylonians for their arrogance. Jeremiah 51:24

So, considering these facts, Did God causes women labor pains?
God saying, "I will increase you labor pains", does not mean God actually caused those pains to increase, but God allowing Eve to live in a sinful state, would result in women having increased birth pains.

In the case of death, did God give everyone a death penalty because his daughter ate an apple he told her not to?
The Bible says, "...In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground. . ." (Genesis 3:19)
"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned. . ." (Romans 5:12)

So, by God allowing Adam to live on, until he died, meanwhile having children, would result in death to all men... not from God, but from Adam, who passed on sin and death to all his offspring, through his defective sinful state.

God's allowing things to happen results in those things happening, but God did not cause them.
There is a difference between allowing something, and causing it.

Does this sound reasonable to you? If not, can you please explain.

Spiderman · Jan 22, 2023

nPeace said:
I think you are trying to look at the situation reasonably, and that's very good.
Only, I think it's reasonable to consider whether we have all the facts, or not.
That way, we can be certain that we are being both reasonable, and humble.

I know the Bible can seem confusing sometimes, but I think humility, helps us remove some of those seeming confusing elements.
So, let's consider your assessment, one at a time.

When we read in the Bible, that God says "I will do A", is it the case that it means God did A?

Consider...

Did God harden Pharaoh's heart? Exodus 14:17
(1 Samuel 6:6) . . .Why should you harden your heart as Egypt and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? . . .
Exodus 7:13; Exodus 8:15; Exodus 8:32; Exodus 9:34-35;

Pharaoh's heart was already hardened. Pharaoh was arrogant - stubborn.
So God saying he will harden Pharaoh's heart, meant simply, that God allowed Pharaoh to continue to be stubborn... to his death.
God did not humble Pharaoh, like he did Nebuchadnezzar, who later returned to his stubbornness. (Romans 9:17, 18)

This is seen too from the fact that God appealed to Pharaoh's heart.
(Exodus 9:13-17) 13 ...“Send my people away so that they may serve me. 14 For now I am directing all my blows to strike your heart, your servants, and your people, so that you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. 15 For by now I could have thrust my hand out to strike you and your people with a devastating plague, and you would have been wiped out from the earth. 16 But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have my name declared in all the earth. 17 Are you still behaving arrogantly against my people by not sending them away?

Did God bring the Chaldeans against Israel? Ezekiel 23:22-24; 2 Kings 24:1-4

The Chaldeans, along with surrounding nations, were already enemies, of Israel, and were in the habit of attacking Israel, to conquer them.
Usually, God protected his people, and even fought for them, however, God allowed the surrounding nations to conquer the rebellious Jews, for their breaking their covenant with him.
That was part of the agreement.
It was conditional.

This is seen too, from the fact that God repaid the Babylonians for their arrogance. Jeremiah 51:24

So, considering these facts, Did God causes women labor pains?
God saying, "I will increase you labor pains", does not mean God actually caused those pains to increase, but God allowing Eve to live in a sinful state, would result in women having increased birth pains.

In the case of death, did God give everyone a death penalty because his daughter ate an apple he told her not to?
The Bible says, "...In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground. . ." (Genesis 3:19)
"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned. . ." (Romans 5:12)

So, by God allowing Adam to live on, until he died, meanwhile having children, would result in death to all men... not from God, but from Adam, who passed on sin and death to all his offspring, through his defective sinful state.

God's allowing things to happen results in those things happening, but God did not cause them.
There is a difference between allowing something, and causing it.

Does this sound reasonable to you? If not, can you please explain.

It is a best reasonable thing I have often tried to figure out, with the exception of Jacob blessed for fighting with God and winning, means God wants people to defeat him so that omnipotence and grace goes to those who protect children, make holiness euphoric enough that even Devils want to do good, and get rid of mosquitoes, plagues, ticks, vermin, and cancer, and God is concerned with making people entertained and laughing, because he is too humble to demand worship like a narcissist Dictator worse than Adolf Hitler.

Pride was the fall of the Devil, so God resembles the Devil more than the whore of Babylon, or the pagan Divinities of Rome.

God also murders the Saints, premeditating the slaughter of his son. If a cop was giving people permission to do that, not helping, he goes to prison. It is evil, Satanic, worse excuse for a Father.

Also "I will harden Pharaoh's heart", does not mean "I will harden Pharaoh's heart", is like the Bible says "do not carve a graven image", then says "make a graven image of a serpent, gaze at it, it will save your life".

Means God is so crazy, the Bible so confusing, it doesn't mean what it says, it's why Christians never stop arguing and dividing over a book that says opposite things are true.

So, the Bible is the biggest insult to God, making him look worse than most criminal father's, and more stupid and insane than most homo sapiens on drugs!

But when he is sober, not having a personality split, he can be an opposite person, a good Dad.

Spiderman · Jan 22, 2023

The Scripture where God commands people to turn to a graven image of the serpent, most satanic creature, to save them, by gazing at it with faith in the healing powers God gives to graven images of the Devil, to save Jews, is found in the book of numbers.

This was after God said "do not make of the a graven image of any animal on earth".

nPeace · Jan 22, 2023

Spiderman said:
It is a best reasonable thing I have often tried to figure out, with the exception of Jacob blessed for fighting with God and winning, means God wants people to defeat him so that omnipotence and grace goes to those who protect children, make holiness euphoric enough that even Devils want to do good, and get rid of mosquitoes, plagues, ticks, vermin, and cancer, and God is concerned with making people entertained and laughing, because he is too humble to demand worship like a narcissist Dictator worse than Adolf Hitler.

Pride was the fall of the Devil, so God resembles the Devil more than the whore of Babylon, or the pagan Divinities of Rome.

God also murders the Saints, premeditating the slaughter of his son. If a cop was giving people permission to do that, not helping, he goes to prison. It is evil, Satanic, worse excuse for a Father.

Also "I will harden Pharaoh's heart", does not mean "I will harden Pharaoh's heart", is like the Bible says "do not carve a graven image", then says "make a graven image of a serpent, gaze at it, it will save your life".

Means God is so crazy, the Bible so confusing, it doesn't mean what it says, it's why Christians never stop arguing and dividing over a book that says opposite things are true.

So, the Bible is the biggest insult to God, making him look worse than most criminal father's, and more stupid and insane than most homo sapiens on drugs!

But when he is sober, not having a personality split, he can be an opposite person, a good Dad.

Considering one at a time shows reasonableness. You wouldn't agree?
It helps us listen, as we can't talk and listen at the same time... especially when we are offloading a truck of complaints.

Agreed?

I could take each one, if you like.
I don't think you just want to complain about how unreasonable God is.

You said:
God is love but murdered 70,000 people with pestilence because a king took a census he didn't like , which the victims were not guilt of.

What are the facts?
Were those 70,000 innocent? Are you sure?
This is something humility will cause us to consider. Do we know? Do you?

nPeace · Jan 22, 2023

Spiderman said:
Also "I will harden Pharaoh's heart", does not mean "I will harden Pharaoh's heart", is like the Bible says "do not carve a graven image", then says "make a graven image of a serpent, gaze at it, it will save your life".

I don't speak Hebrew, but many understand that the Hebrew word, used there, does not mean make or cause, but strengthen.

So if Pharaoh's heart is hard already, God does not need to make it hard.
God's actions can only strengthen Pharaoh's stubbornness.

So while Pharaoh hardened his heart, based on how he felt about himself - his pride, fed by his attendants, God allowed it... but was not responsible for it.

That certainly isn't hard to understand, is it?

Bible is moral relativism!

Spiderman

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King Phenomenon

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Spiderman

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lewisnotmiller

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1213

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nPeace

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Spiderman

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Spiderman

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nPeace

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nPeace

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