Just as eternity is in our hearts, for every second we can count we can count both forwards and backwards forever and ever.
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Pre-Big Bang
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
Just as eternity is in our hearts, for every second we can count we can count both forwards and backwards forever and ever.
A creator without a creation cannot be imagined, there is no beginning and no end.
The best we can do is to consider that the birth of our consciousness is our big bang moment.
Regards Tony
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
So does any other solution. At least God is a mystery that has more logic than "it just happened".
To me the 'how' is that God set the limits and possibilities - Revelation 4:11
God's purpose is in Genesis that we populate the Earth (Not overpopulate) - Genesis 1:28
Populate and make Earth into a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden was a sample blueprint to follow.
The 'why' is that God's physical creation (us) would enjoy living forever on such a beautiful paradisical Earth.
The fact that fallen mankind's history shows man has dominated man to man's hurt, man's injury is Not God's fault.
God's purpose being temporarily interrupted by Satan and Adam does Not mean His purpose has changed.
This interruption has allowed time for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign.
God's purpose is resurrection for the dead (Acts 24:15) and soon at Jesus' coming Glory Time - Matthew 25:31-33,37- the figurative 'sheep' can remain alive on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' millennial reign over Earth with everlasting life on Earth in view as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Soandso
ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
I feel like this is a very human way to see things. We are hard wired to find patterns in all things, even shapes in clouds.
From my understanding, science isn't a search to find how things are organized, since we are the ones who organize those things according to the predictability of certain phenomena we observe. Science is more about testing the boundaries of our own understanding and aquiescing to the results of what happens when we test those boundaries. Any categories we create for those observations are subject to change as we get better information
Pressures in nature exist for sure, but there is nothing to suggest that those pressures were created. That's just humans filling in their own ignorance with presumptions, imo. The best version of assumptions we can employ are "educated guesses," but even then, what's the point? If those guesses aren't subject to change in light of better evidence, not much
Heyo
Veteran Member
That must be a model that doesn't take quantum mechanics, as we understand it today, into account. According to the Big Bang model it starts at t= 10⁻⁴³ seconds, a Planck time, which is considered not dividable, i.e. quantised.
There are a lot of models out there that make mathematically sense but not physically.
We Never Know
No Slack
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
What "other" solution?
You can't explain a mystery by appealing to an even other mystery.
Not even if you defend it with a silly strawman.
PureX
Veteran Member
Yes, but that actually tells us nothing. It just gives the mystery a label. And then people use their imaginations to fill in the mystery. Much the same as calling it a "singularity", and then just blindly speculating on what that might mean. Or just pretending it's an answer, when really all it is, is a label.
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PureX
Veteran Member
Yes, and we find them because they are there. Randomness has no "patterns" to find. Existence is not random. And I have no idea why you think it is.
That predictability is because existence is organized. It is the organization that allows us to predict how existence happens. Humans are not imagining that humans only give birth to humans. We are simply observing that it is so. Because the expression of life is organized in such a way that this is the only possibility. And this is not random. In fact, it appears to be quite purposeful.
Yes, and those 'boundaries' are the reality of existential organization. They are the line between what is possible and what is not possible. And we humans are not making that up. In fact, science shows us that they are there before we even recognize that they are there. And that they are shaping the existential event whether we observe it or not.
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Isn't nothing something
Depends on you interpretation of nothing. I.e. nothing with dimensions or nothing without dimensions
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Every explanation offered is a guess. I go with the most logical one, that some force existed already.
I find there was No mystery label with the 600+ Mosaic Laws for the ancient Jews.
For example: Leviticus 19:18 which is often referred to as the Golden Rule.
Jesus gives us a New commandment at John 13:34-35 to love others as he loved others.
In other words, we are now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the old Golden Rule.
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has for us.
Thus, there is No blindly speculating on what Jesus meant.
Interesting to read ^ above ^ that, " we are hard wired to find patterns in al things.......".
So, the question is " How did that hard-wiring pattern come about ? "
To me, the best version is the teaching that Creator God existed ' before ' anything else. - Psalms 90:2
Thus, the better evidence is that when God sends forth His spirit things are created - Psalms 104:30
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed Power and Strength to create the visible realm - Isaiah 40:26
This is why we also can see patterns or find patterns in what the Bible teaches.
Before taking action the pattern was always first a warning given:
Noah was warned. Lot was warned. Before un-faithful Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70 there was warning.
Seems to me then we are ' hard wired to find patterns in things ' because our Creator is hard wired that way.
So, then I find it No surprise today that 'Jesus' message pattern about God's Kingdom' is now being proclaimed world wide internationally just as Jesus instructed at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Especially those that are invented out of thin air instead of based on evidence and provided in independently testable manner.
Explanations that have no evidence, aren't testable, aren't verifiable, aren't falsifiable... are never "logical".
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
None of them are testable.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
Mmm .. but our intuition says that this is not so.
We can appreciate the concept of eternity, where there is no absolute beginning or end.
It makes little sense to say that it is impossible for something to exist outside of the universe.
We cannot therefore make such an assumption that time, itself, is merely a property of this universe.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
What are you talking about / referring to?
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
I think he refers to multiverse and what not.
You know, the theories of how the universe came into being.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Because we have no experience of such a thing. In our lives there is always a temporal "before" and a spacial "behind". We can only try to train our imagination with questions like "When you're at the south pole, where is south?".