With bafflement upon bafflement!

Redemptionsong said:

Yes, l believe that the Christ of God is sent to crush the head of the Serpent.

Was Jesus human? Yes, because he was born of a woman who conceived and was pregnant for nine months.

How did Mary conceive, given that she was a virgin? She was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, making her conception an act of God. Such an act also makes the 'seed' both the Son of God and Son of man.

Click to expand...

Great! We can move beyond Gen 3:15 now. That one is still pending.

Redemptionsong said:

In the theology of the Torah Jew, there can be no Messiah, Son of God. The Messiah is 100% human, and a son of David. The difficulty here is that the children of Israel are viewed as being a corporate 'son of God' [see Hosea 11:1] Yet, when one tries to apply this idea with consistency, it is difficult to maintain [see Psalms 2:12].

Can the Messiah be the Son of man, king over a people who are God's 'Son'? Does this not make the people, lsrael, greater than their head?

Click to expand...

That's an interesting question, I don't want to go too deep into it, because it will distract from the more important task of going through each of the prophecies you provided which you are saying were fulfiled in Jesus' human physical life on earth.

The simple answer is no, the future king is not above the head. And that is because the future king is included in the nation. The entire nation is God's first born (Exodus 4:22), the future king is part of that too, not above it.

dybmh said:

Great! We can move beyond Gen 3:15 now. That one is still pending.

That's an interesting question, I don't want to go too deep into it, because it will distract from the more important task of going through each of the prophecies you provided which you are saying were fulfiled in Jesus' human physical life on earth.

The simple answer is no, the future king is not above the head. And that is because the future king is included in the nation. The entire nation is God's first born (Exodus 4:22), the future king is part of that too, not above it.

Click to expand...

If l gave you one jigsaw piece, say one from a thousand pieces, the chances are that the individual piece would not immediately find a place in your puzzle. The big picture, God's picture, is the one into which our individual pieces fit. Only as the pieces connect to others does the bigger picture emerge. So, my recommendation is to start with one portion of the puzzle, say the crucifixion, and see how the prophecies to this one event are formed from multiple verses in the Tanakh. That way, you get a portion of the whole jigsaw from a recognisable event. This means reading all the Gospel accounts first, then seeing whether prophecy announces these events.

Given the widespread testimony to the crucifixion of Jesus, it is highly unlikely that his death could have been staged or imagined. Moreover, since the first disciples of Jesus were all Jews, with access to the Tanakh, it is unlikely that they would attempt to follow a Messiah whose 'fingerprint' was not to be found in scripture.

Also, l quite accept what you say about the future king being chosen from the nation. However, the king is an anointed head over an anointed body. Where, l ask, does the anointing begin? Does it begin from the head, or from the body?

Redemptionsong said:

If l gave you one jigsaw piece, say one from a thousand pieces, the chances are that the individual piece would not immediately find a place in your puzzle. The big picture, God's picture, is the one into which our individual pieces fit. Only as the pieces connect to others does the bigger picture emerge. So, my recommendation is to start with one portion of the puzzle, say the crucifixion, and see how the prophecies to this one event are formed from multiple verses in the Tanakh. That way, you get a portion of the whole jigsaw from a recognisable event. This means reading all the Gospel accounts first, then seeing whether prophecy announces these events.

Click to expand...

Great! Let's do it! But I'll need help, because I don't know the gospels. I've read them all one time. It'll be good to review it, but I won't know how the event was "formed from Tanach" without assistance.

Redemptionsong said:

Given the widespread testimony to the crucifixion of Jesus, it is highly unlikely that his death could have been staged or imagined. Moreover, since the first disciples of Jesus were all Jews, with access to the Tanakh, it is unlikely that they would attempt to follow a Messiah whose 'fingerprint' was not to be found in scripture.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about this. I don't think all of Jesus' disciples had access to Tanach. But, I'm happy to ignore that objection, and assume the accounts given in the gospels ( not Paul's writing ) are accurate in order to continue on this journey.

Redemptionsong said:

Also, l quite accept what you say about the future king being chosen from the nation. However, the king is an anointed head over an anointed body. Where, l ask, does the anointing begin? Does it begin from the head, or from the body?

Click to expand...

Thank you for saying that. I honestly don't know the answer. But I'd rather not get distracted from the more important task of analyzing what you perceive as fulfilled prophecies.

The goal, from my point of view, is to show that it's not blindness to expect *actual* fulfillment of prophecy as opposed to *partial* fulfillment of prophecy. Nor is it blindness to ignore a person's / preacher's / missionary's claims after they have been shown to exagerate a few times.

dybmh said:

Great! Let's do it! But I'll need help, because I don't know the gospels. I've read them all one time. It'll be good to review it, but I won't know how the event was "formed from Tanach" without assistance.

I'm not sure about this. I don't think all of Jesus' disciples had access to Tanach. But, I'm happy to ignore that objection, and assume the accounts given in the gospels ( not Paul's writing ) are accurate in order to continue on this journey.

Thank you for saying that. I honestly don't know the answer. But I'd rather not get distracted from the more important task of analyzing what you perceive as fulfilled prophecies.

The goal, from my point of view, is to show that it's not blindness to expect *actual* fulfillment of prophecy as opposed to *partial* fulfillment of prophecy. Nor is it blindness to ignore a person's / preacher's / missionary's claims after they have been shown to exagerate a few times.

Click to expand...

Maybe l can set out a bit of background to the crucifixion of Jesus.

As you well know, the 'Passion', beginning with Jesus' 'triumphal entry' into Jerusalem took place at the festival of Pesach, a festival of freedom from slavery. This is an important consideration given that Jesus came to fulfil the law. [Let me check the accuracy of these facts with you!]

Christian traditions, heavily influenced by Gentile thinking, has made it much harder to discern the very Jewish nature of the events that took place in the year Jesus was crucified.

As l understand, a lamb without blemish was chosen on the tenth day of Nisan [Exodus 12:3]. This lamb was then kept by a family until the 14 Nisan, when it was killed 'between the evenings' [Exodus 12:6].

The 15 Nisan until the 22 Nisan was the Feast of Unleavened Bread. No leaven, symbolic of sin, could be consumed, and all houses and utensils were cleaned in advance of the festival.

The first and last days of Unleavened Bread were high holy days (not necessarily weekly sabbaths). The second day of Unleavened Bread was also the first day of the Omer offering, which continued until Shav'uot.

Is it not also true that every seven years was a sabbatical year, and every fiftieth year a jubilee? Or was it the custom to release a prisoner every year at Pesach? According to Matthew 27:15, Pilate was aware of a Jewish tradition to release one prisoner.

The reason l would like these things confirmed is because l believe Jesus fulfilled the law. Can you assist in clarifying the law at Pesach?

Redemptionsong said:

The reason l would like these things confirmed is because l believe Jesus fulfilled the law. Can you assist in clarifying the law at Pesach?

Click to expand...

I'm not a Rabbi, but I'll do my best.

1. The commandment is incumbent on each household or small group of households in the nation to make the passover offering.
2. On the 10th an unblemished young lamb or young goat is chosen and designated for the offering and brought into the household.
3. The animal cannot be older than 1 year of age.
4. On the 14th in the afternoon, the offering is brought to the temple.
5. The head of each household slaughters the animal using a very very sharp knife.
6. The blood is drained from the animal; collected by a priest; and poured onto the base of the altar.
7. The animal is skinned.
8. There's specific fatty areas of the animal which are removed along with the kidneys, the diaphram, and the liver. These are burned on the altar.
9. Any waste material in the animal is removed and the organs in the digestive system are washed out with water.
10. If any bones are broken during the process the animal is deemed unfit and the offering is a failure.
11. The animal is carried home by the head of household.
12. The animal is roasted over a fire on a spit.
13. The animal is eaten by the members of the household ( or small group of households ) with bitter herbs and unleavened bread.
14. Circumcision is required of any male who take part in the ritual.
15. The animal must be eaten in the home and none of the animal can be removed from the home.
16. None of the bones can be broken at any time during the ritual.
17. Any of the animal that is not eaten that night must be burned completely.
18. This offering is an eternal decree to be observed annually.

1. Starting on the 15th of Nisan leavend bread cannot be eaten or possessed.
2. The reason given is as a memorial for the rushed departure from Egypt.
3. The prohibtion is lifted after 7 days.
4. The first and last days of the festival are High Holy days, no work is performed.
5. The symbolism of leavened bread is not law but most people associate it with pride. It doesn't make sense to associate it with sin, because, leavened bread is permitted 357 days of the year. Is sin permitted most days of the year and only prohibited for 7 days?

1. Starting on the 2nd day, each day is counted until 50 days have passed
2. The 50th day commenorates the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai

Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

dybmh said:

I'm not a Rabbi, but I'll do my best.

The Passover Offering​

1. The commandment is incumbent on each household or small group of households in the nation to make the passover offering.
2. On the 10th an unblemished young lamb or young goat is chosen and designated for the offering and brought into the household.
3. The animal cannot be older than 1 year of age.
4. On the 14th in the afternoon, the offering is brought to the temple.
5. The head of each household slaughters the animal using a very very sharp knife.
6. The blood is drained from the animal; collected by a priest; and poured onto the base of the altar.
7. The animal is skinned.
8. There's specific fatty areas of the animal which are removed along with the kidneys, the diaphram, and the liver. These are burned on the altar.
9. Any waste material in the animal is removed and the organs in the digestive system are washed out with water.
10. If any bones are broken during the process the animal is deemed unfit and the offering is a failure.
11. The animal is carried home by the head of household.
12. The animal is roasted over a fire on a spit.
13. The animal is eaten by the members of the household ( or small group of households ) with bitter herbs and unleavened bread.
14. Circumcision is required of any male who take part in the ritual.
15. The animal must be eaten in the home and none of the animal can be removed from the home.
16. None of the bones can be broken at any time during the ritual.
17. Any of the animal that is not eaten that night must be burned completely.
18. This offering is an eternal decree to be observed annually.

The Prohibtion on Leavened Bread​

1. Starting on the 15th of Nisan leavend bread cannot be eaten or possessed.
2. The reason given is as a memorial for the rushed departure from Egypt.
3. The prohibtion is lifted after 7 days.
4. The first and last days of the festival are High Holy days, no work is performed.
5. The symbolism of leavened bread is not law but most people associate it with pride. It doesn't make sense to associate it with sin, because, leavened bread is permitted 357 days of the year. Is sin permitted most days of the year and only prohibited for 7 days?

Counting the omer​

1. Starting on the 2nd day, each day is counted until 50 days have passed
2. The 50th day commenorates the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai

Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

Click to expand...

Thank you. You've provided a helpful, concise, overview.

As regards prophecy of the crucifixion of Jesus, I believe that all scripture is prophecy, and as such one can see Christ not just in explicit statements, but in 'type' and 'figure'.

Here is a comparison of Genesis 22 with statements found elsewhere.
Genesis 22:2. 'Take now thy son'
Hebrews 1:2. 'God ....hath spoken to us by His Son'
Genesis 22:2. 'Thine only son'
John 3:16. 'God...gave His only begotten Son'
Genesis 22:2. 'Whom thou lovest'
John 1:18. 'The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father'
Genesis 22:2. 'And get thee into the land of Moriah'
2 Chronicles 3:2. 1. 'Solomon began to build the house of the Lord....in Mount Moriah'
Genesis 2:2. 'Upon one of the mountains that I will tell thee of'
Luke 23:33. 'And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they crucified Him'
Genesis 22:2. 'And offer him there for a burnt offering'
Hebrews 10:5-10. 'Sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all'
Genesis 22:4. 'Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place afar off'
Acts 3:18. 'God before hath showed by the mouth of all His prophets that Christ should suffer' (The Father knew before the foundation of the world)
Genesis 22:6 'And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son. And they went both of them together'
John 19:17. 'And he, bearing his cross, went forth' (See John 18:11)
John 10:17,18. 'Therefore doth My Father love me, because I lay down my life. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself....This commandment have I received of my Father'
Genesis 22:7. 'Where is the lamb for a burnt offering?'
John 1:29. 'Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world'
Genesis 22:8. 'God will provide Himself the lamb' (RV)
Revelation 13:8. 'The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world'
Genesis 22:8. 'So they went both of them together'
Psalm 40:8. 'I delight to do Thy will, O my God'
Genesis 22:9 'Abraham built an altar there, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him upon the altar upon the wood'
Acts 2:23. 'Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God'
Isaiah 53:6. 'The Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all'
Genesis 22:10. 'And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son'
Isaiah 53:10. 'It pleased the Lord to bruise Him'
Matthew 27:46. 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'
Genesis 22:11. 'The angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven'
[Contrast - no voice from heaven]
Matthew 26:53,54; Matthew 27:42. 'He save others, himself he cannot save'
Genesis 22:12. 'Thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son'
Jeremiah 6:26. (When God speaks of deep grief he compares it to the loss of an only son)
Genesis 22:13. 'Abraham took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son'
Isaiah 53:7,11. 'He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter...He shall bear their iniquities'
[Taken from 'Christ In All The Scriptures' by A.M. Hodgkin]

Deuteronomy 16:16 states that three festivals are to be 'pilgrim festivals': Pesach, Shavuot and Succot. I believe each is linked to the life of Jesus. I believe he was born at Succot, died and was raised at Pesach, and gave the Holy Spirit at Shavuot.

A lot more can be said about the offerings made in the temple, and their relation to Christ. Here is what Hodgkin has to say on the subject:
'The first seven chapters of Leviticus are occupied with the description of the five kinds of offerings. It needs a great variety of types to convey any idea of the perfect completeness of Christ's sacrifice. The first point which requires our notice is this:- in each offering there are at least three distinct objects presented to us: there is the offering, the priest, and the offerer. The definite knowledge of the import of each of these is absolutely requisite if we would understand the offerings. Christ is the offering, 'The offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all' [Hebrews 10:10]. Christ is the priest, 'We have a great High Priest, Jesus the Son of God' [Hebrews 6:14]. Christ is the offerer, 'Who gave himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity' [Titus 2:14]

I'll try, now, to provide a few more relevant prophecies with regard to your last post.

dybmh said:

I'm not a Rabbi, but I'll do my best.

The Passover Offering​

1. The commandment is incumbent on each household or small group of households in the nation to make the passover offering.
2. On the 10th an unblemished young lamb or young goat is chosen and designated for the offering and brought into the household.
3. The animal cannot be older than 1 year of age.
4. On the 14th in the afternoon, the offering is brought to the temple.
5. The head of each household slaughters the animal using a very very sharp knife.
6. The blood is drained from the animal; collected by a priest; and poured onto the base of the altar.
7. The animal is skinned.
8. There's specific fatty areas of the animal which are removed along with the kidneys, the diaphram, and the liver. These are burned on the altar.
9. Any waste material in the animal is removed and the organs in the digestive system are washed out with water.
10. If any bones are broken during the process the animal is deemed unfit and the offering is a failure.
11. The animal is carried home by the head of household.
12. The animal is roasted over a fire on a spit.
13. The animal is eaten by the members of the household ( or small group of households ) with bitter herbs and unleavened bread.
14. Circumcision is required of any male who take part in the ritual.
15. The animal must be eaten in the home and none of the animal can be removed from the home.
16. None of the bones can be broken at any time during the ritual.
17. Any of the animal that is not eaten that night must be burned completely.
18. This offering is an eternal decree to be observed annually.

The Prohibtion on Leavened Bread​

1. Starting on the 15th of Nisan leavend bread cannot be eaten or possessed.
2. The reason given is as a memorial for the rushed departure from Egypt.
3. The prohibtion is lifted after 7 days.
4. The first and last days of the festival are High Holy days, no work is performed.
5. The symbolism of leavened bread is not law but most people associate it with pride. It doesn't make sense to associate it with sin, because, leavened bread is permitted 357 days of the year. Is sin permitted most days of the year and only prohibited for 7 days?

Counting the omer​

1. Starting on the 2nd day, each day is counted until 50 days have passed
2. The 50th day commenorates the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai

Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

Click to expand...

Here are a few passages worth comparing:

A Stranger:
'I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children' [Psalms 69:8]

'He came unto his own and his own received him not' [John 1:11; John 7:3,5]

A Stumbling Stone:
'A stone of stumbling and a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel' [Isaiah 8:14]
'They stumbled at the stumbling stone. As it is written, Behold I lay in Zion a stumbling-stone and rock of offence; and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed' [Romans 9:32,33]

Hated:
'Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth' [Isaiah 49:7; also, Psalms 69;4; 2:1,2]
'...but now have they both seen and hated me and my Father...the word written in their law. They hated me without a cause'
[John 15:24,25] Also Acts 4:27.

Reproached:
'The reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen on me' [Psalms 69:9]

'For even Christ pleased not himself, but as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me' [Romans 15:3]

Mocked:
'All they that see me laugh me to scorn, they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him, seeing he delighted in him' [Psalms 22:7,8]

'They that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads....Likewise also the chief priests mocking him with the scribes and elders, said...he trusted in God: let him deliver him' [Matthew 27:39-44] Also Matthew 26:67,68; Mark 15:14,19.

Smitten:
'They shall smite the Judge of Israel; with a rod, upon the cheek' [Micah 5:1] Also Isaiah 50:6; 53:4; Zechariah 13:6,7; Lam.3:30.

'And they took the reed and smote him on the head' [Matthew 27:30] Also Matthew 26:67,68; Luke 22:63; Mark 14;27; 15:19; John 1:3.

Spit Upon:
'...I hid not my face from shame and spitting' [Isaiah 50:6]

'And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him' [Mark 14:65]

Crucified:
'They pierced my hands and my feet' [Psalms 22:16]

'They crucified him' [John 19:18] Also John 20:25.

Like Transgressors:
'He was numbered with the transgressors' [Isaiah 53:12]

'And with him they crucify two thieves. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors' [Mark 15:27,28]

Suffered for our sins:
'Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows....he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities...the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all' [Isaiah 53: 4,6] Also Isaiah 53:8,12; Daniel 9:26.

'The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world' [John 1:29]. Also Matthew 20:28; Hebrews 9:28; 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18.

Resurrection:
'Neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption' [Psalms 16:10] Also Psalms 49:15; 71:20; Isaiah 25:8.

'He is not here, but is risen...And their eyes were opened, and they saw him; and he vanished out of their sight...The Lord is risen indeed' [Luke 24:6,31,34] Also Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:5-9.

dybmh said:

I'm not a Rabbi, but I'll do my best.

The Passover Offering​

1. The commandment is incumbent on each household or small group of households in the nation to make the passover offering.
2. On the 10th an unblemished young lamb or young goat is chosen and designated for the offering and brought into the household.
3. The animal cannot be older than 1 year of age.
4. On the 14th in the afternoon, the offering is brought to the temple.
5. The head of each household slaughters the animal using a very very sharp knife.
6. The blood is drained from the animal; collected by a priest; and poured onto the base of the altar.
7. The animal is skinned.
8. There's specific fatty areas of the animal which are removed along with the kidneys, the diaphram, and the liver. These are burned on the altar.
9. Any waste material in the animal is removed and the organs in the digestive system are washed out with water.
10. If any bones are broken during the process the animal is deemed unfit and the offering is a failure.
11. The animal is carried home by the head of household.
12. The animal is roasted over a fire on a spit.
13. The animal is eaten by the members of the household ( or small group of households ) with bitter herbs and unleavened bread.
14. Circumcision is required of any male who take part in the ritual.
15. The animal must be eaten in the home and none of the animal can be removed from the home.
16. None of the bones can be broken at any time during the ritual.
17. Any of the animal that is not eaten that night must be burned completely.
18. This offering is an eternal decree to be observed annually.

The Prohibtion on Leavened Bread​

1. Starting on the 15th of Nisan leavend bread cannot be eaten or possessed.
2. The reason given is as a memorial for the rushed departure from Egypt.
3. The prohibtion is lifted after 7 days.
4. The first and last days of the festival are High Holy days, no work is performed.
5. The symbolism of leavened bread is not law but most people associate it with pride. It doesn't make sense to associate it with sin, because, leavened bread is permitted 357 days of the year. Is sin permitted most days of the year and only prohibited for 7 days?

Counting the omer​

1. Starting on the 2nd day, each day is counted until 50 days have passed
2. The 50th day commenorates the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai

Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

Click to expand...

According to the Gospels, Jesus entered Jerusalem just before Pesach, on the 10 Nisan, in what is described by commentators as the 'triumphal entry' into Jerusalem. I believe that this was the point at which the Pascal lamb was chosen and taken in. I also believe that the 10 Nisan that year was a weekly Sabbath. This means that the day of Jesus' crucifixion was a Wednesday (not Friday), allowing a full three days and nights for his fulfilment of Matthew 12:40.

Matthew 21:4. 'All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ***, and a colt the foal of an ***.' [Quoting Zechariah 9:9]

Matthew 21:10,11 says that 'And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?
And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee'.

Interestingly, the first thing that Jesus does in Jerusalem is visit the temple. What does he do there? He treats the temple as his own home, and prepares it for Pesach by cleansing it! He says, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves'. [See Jeremiah 7:8 -12]

I don't think Jesus was only talking about the physical temple because he clearly sees the temple as his own spiritual body. See John 2:12-21. Jesus says, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up'.

[Malachi 3:1
'BEHOLD, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts'.

If you read Malachi, you might be convinced that the temple to which the Lord comes is his physical temple, but the messenger who prepares the way (the Spirit of Elijah in John the Baptist) comes just before the baptism of Jesus. This baptism in the Holy Spirit was the moment that God (the Holy Spirit) chose to dwell in his human temple, 'built without hands'. As the first begotten of the dead, Jesus then becomes the cornerstone of the spiritual temple of God.]

Jesus has a Passover meal on Tuesday evening, where he brakes bread and shares the cup, and makes his betrayer known [Psalms 41:9]. The company of disciples then sing the Psalms 112-118, before Jesus, and a select few, set off to pray near Gethsemane.

The betrayer, Judas Iscariot, is paid 30 pieces of silver to betray Jesus at a quiet moment, away from the crowds. [See Zechariah 11:12,13] After his death, another is required to take his place. [See Psalms 109:7,8]

When Jesus is taken before the High Priest he is accused by false witnesses. [Matthew 26:60,61; Psalms 27:12; Psalms 35:11]

Then we have all the internal agony represented in Psalms 22, alluded to by Jesus as he died. Isaiah 53 says more. And, of course, not a bone in his body is broken [Psalms 34:20 and Exodus 12:46]

Does the Tanakh tell us about resurrection? Yes, Psalm 16:10. Psalm 23. And the Ascension? Acts 1:10,11; Psalms 68:18; Daniel 7;13,14.

dybmh said:

I'm not a Rabbi, but I'll do my best.

The Passover Offering​

1. The commandment is incumbent on each household or small group of households in the nation to make the passover offering.
2. On the 10th an unblemished young lamb or young goat is chosen and designated for the offering and brought into the household.
3. The animal cannot be older than 1 year of age.
4. On the 14th in the afternoon, the offering is brought to the temple.
5. The head of each household slaughters the animal using a very very sharp knife.
6. The blood is drained from the animal; collected by a priest; and poured onto the base of the altar.
7. The animal is skinned.
8. There's specific fatty areas of the animal which are removed along with the kidneys, the diaphram, and the liver. These are burned on the altar.
9. Any waste material in the animal is removed and the organs in the digestive system are washed out with water.
10. If any bones are broken during the process the animal is deemed unfit and the offering is a failure.
11. The animal is carried home by the head of household.
12. The animal is roasted over a fire on a spit.
13. The animal is eaten by the members of the household ( or small group of households ) with bitter herbs and unleavened bread.
14. Circumcision is required of any male who take part in the ritual.
15. The animal must be eaten in the home and none of the animal can be removed from the home.
16. None of the bones can be broken at any time during the ritual.
17. Any of the animal that is not eaten that night must be burned completely.
18. This offering is an eternal decree to be observed annually.

The Prohibtion on Leavened Bread​

1. Starting on the 15th of Nisan leavend bread cannot be eaten or possessed.
2. The reason given is as a memorial for the rushed departure from Egypt.
3. The prohibtion is lifted after 7 days.
4. The first and last days of the festival are High Holy days, no work is performed.
5. The symbolism of leavened bread is not law but most people associate it with pride. It doesn't make sense to associate it with sin, because, leavened bread is permitted 357 days of the year. Is sin permitted most days of the year and only prohibited for 7 days?

Counting the omer​

1. Starting on the 2nd day, each day is counted until 50 days have passed
2. The 50th day commenorates the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai

Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

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One other thing, if you can stomach it!

Genesis 49:10,11. 'The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ***'s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:'

So, when did the sceptre depart from Judah? Was it not with Jeconiah in Babylon? Or was the sceptre passed to Zorobabel, and then, as a signet, to Joshua the High Priest?

Ezekiel 21:25-27. 'And thou, profane wicked prince of lsrael, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end.
This saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
I will overturn, overturn , overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and l will give it him'.

Zechariah 6:12,13. 'And speak unto him saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of Hosts, saying Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both'.

Is the Messiah to be a king and priest?

Zechariah 6:13. 'he shall be a priest upon his throne'.

The timing of the first coming of the Messiah is provided by Daniel. Daniel 9:24-27.
'Seventy weeks...to finish the transgression' 70x7=490 years.
'from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build (the street and wall) in Jerusalem'
In the seventh year of Artaxerxes [Ezra 7:12-26], a decree went out (unalterable) to restore Jerusalem. This was about 458 BCE.
49 years later, the wall and the street were completed.
'And after threescore and two years shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:'
62x7= 434
Adding 49 years to 434 years and taking 458 BCE as the year of the commandment, we arrive at 26 CE.
This leaves a single week, or seven years, for the completion of the prophecy [Daniel 9:27].

There will be some wriggle room with dates, but the telling feature of this prophecy, made by Daniel, is that it lands us at the time when Jesus was crucified in Judaea.

Redemptionsong said:

One other thing, if you can stomach it!

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I'm doing fine. Just listening

There's a lot to absorb; I'm not rejecting, but it doesn't naturally resonate with me. I still want to understand your point of view, so I'm sticking with it. I'll probably go back through it and read your posts again a few times before commenting.

Thank you,

Redemptionsong said:

If you read Malachi, you might be convinced that the temple to which the Lord comes is his physical temple, but the messenger who prepares the way (the Spirit of Elijah in John the Baptist) comes just before the baptism of Jesus. This baptism in the Holy Spirit was the moment that God (the Holy Spirit) chose to dwell in his human temple, 'built without hands'. As the first begotten of the dead, Jesus then becomes the cornerstone of the spiritual temple of God.]

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Correct, and also these two, John and the Lord Jesus are the TWO WITNESSES of Revelations chapter 11. Moses signified as the Lord Jesus, and Elijah signified as John the Baptist.

101G.

101G said:

Correct, and also these two, John and the Lord Jesus are the TWO WITNESSES of Revelations chapter 11. Moses signified as the Lord Jesus, and Elijah signified as John the Baptist.

101G.

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I agree that Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses, for they appeared together with Christ at his transfiguration. But, to my understanding, they are witnesses because Moses represents the Law, and Elijah represents the Prophets.

Redemptionsong said:

I agree that Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses, for they appeared together with Christ at his transfiguration. But, to my understanding, they are witnesses because Moses represents the Law, and Elijah represents the Prophets.

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Correct, and the Lord Jesus is the Law, and MEDIATOR of the NEW COVENANT, as Moses represented the law, and was the MEDIATOR of it. and all the prophets was until John. Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

now at the transfiguration, coming down off the mountain, Matthew 17:9 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." Matthew 17:10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?" Matthew 17:11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them." Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

the Lord Jesus cannot LIE.

101G.

101G said:

Correct, and the Lord Jesus is the Law, and MEDIATOR of the NEW COVENANT, as Moses represented the law, and was the MEDIATOR of it. and all the prophets was until John. Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

now at the transfiguration, coming down off the mountain, Matthew 17:9 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." Matthew 17:10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?" Matthew 17:11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them." Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

the Lord Jesus cannot LIE.

101G.

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" Matthew 17:10, Matthew 17:11 "

The verses “Matthew 17:10, Matthew 17:11 ” quoted by one in one's post are not from (Jesus)- Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, please:

Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible

Right?

And that means neither (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, spoke them nor authored them nor wrote them and , therefore, these are not a reliable source for guidance in ethical, moral and or spiritual matters for one who loves Yeshua, reason suggest, please. Right?

Regards

paarsurrey said:

And that means neither (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, spoke them nor authored them nor wrote them and , therefore, these are not a reliable source for guidance in ethical, moral and or spiritual matters for one who loves Yeshua, reason suggest, please. Right?

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why? where is your proof?

where is the proof that Mohmand spoke or authored anything? or anyone else?

101G.