Is Jesus Christ the True God?

Jainarayan · Dec 29, 2022

muhammad_isa said:
Two things..

The Abrahamic God is a non-physical entity that is responsible for creating and maintaining the universe.

As are the gods of other religions. No religion I am familiar with believes its gods are physical beings. They may manifest but they are spirit not physical.

..so "other gods" might be true, or might be false.
It all depends .. it is hard to believe that a statue could be God, for example, because a statue cannot create a universe.

The error in that thinking is that worshipers believe the statue or idol is God. No one of any Pagan religion believes an inanimate object is God. The "idol" is a conduit to God. You don't talk to the telephone, you talk through the telephone to the person on the other end. The telephone carries energy, the idol carries energy.

muhammad_isa · Dec 29, 2022

Jainarayan said:
No one of any Pagan religion believes an inanimate object is God. The "idol" is a conduit to God..

Mmm, OK.
The problem being, is that an idol cannot talk or write, so it is not able to communicate anything.
A messenger of God, on the other hand, speaks for God.

Jainarayan said:
The telephone carries energy, the idol carries energy.

I guess mankind isn't always satisfied with worshiping the unseen.
They feel the need for something concrete, some sort of token.

Jainarayan · Dec 29, 2022

muhammad_isa said:
Mmm, OK.
The problem being, is that an idol cannot talk or write, so it is not able to communicate anything.
A messenger of God, on the other hand, speaks for God.

Your thinking is too concrete. Communication with the divine is metaphysical. Does a book communicate? What if they are burned? How much knowledge has been lost because it wasn’t transmitted orally? Remember what was housed in the Library of Alexandria? Exactly nothing because it burned to the ground. The Vedas have been transmitted faithfully and orally for millennia. How many people can recite or chant the Bible or Quran from memory?

I guess mankind isn't always satisfied with worshiping the unseen.
They feel the need for something concrete, some sort of token.

That is true, and is addressed by Lord Krishna:

For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied. Bhagavad Gita 12.5

This verse means that because we are sensory beings, we need something tangible to identify with and focus on.

muhammad_isa · Dec 29, 2022

Jainarayan said:
Remember what was housed in the Library of Alexandria? Exactly nothing because it burned to the ground..

Civilisations rise and fall..
They often need something to renew them.

ElishaElijah · Dec 29, 2022

muhammad_isa said:
I probably did not word that very well..
What I mean is, belief in God aka faith, does not require much knowledge..
..but it doesn't end there .. how can we distinguish between what is true and what is false?
Intuition can take us so far .. along with our personal experience with others .. but satan is always trying to trick us..
He wants us to think we know it all

..when none of us do.
Nobody has a PhD in every subject going.
It is not just about literal "Bible reading"..

A pious person with a Doctor of Divinity Degree, is not equal to an otherwise uneducated person.
Almighty God loves those who earn their livings professionally.
Knowledge is a valuable commodity .. not just for gaining big salaries.
Many people have degrees in the Social Sciences, but earn relatively little.

It is all about intention.

I see this in Scripture:
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
I Corinthians 1:18-21 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to no | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

muhammad_isa · Dec 29, 2022

ElishaElijah said:
I see this in Scripture:
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So?
What does this verse "say" to you?
To me, it says that those who turn their backs on God, and claim to be worldly wise are foolish.

It does not say that academic education is worthless.

I mean, if you couldn't read, you would be dependent on "the scribe", and what he taught you.

101G · Dec 29, 2022

muhammad_isa said:
The same "one person" who communicates with each other..

DOH!

do you understand the GREEK term G243 Allos? Listen and understand, " Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". a numerical difference is more than ONE, but of, of, of, the same thing or person.

101G.

ElishaElijah · Dec 29, 2022

muhammad_isa said:
So?
What does this verse "say" to you?
To me, it says that those who turn their backs on God, and claim to be worldly wise are foolish.

It does not say that academic education is worthless.

I mean, if you couldn't read, you would be dependent on "the scribe", and what he taught you.

You said this: I would say that belief in God requires a broad academic knowledge base.

This is not a true statement

muhammad_isa · Dec 30, 2022

ElishaElijah said:
You said this: I would say that belief in God requires a broad academic knowledge base.

This is not a true statement

No, it's not a true statement..
I already corrected that in post #78

metis · Dec 30, 2022

Wildswanderer said:
That's from the Catholic Church, not me. I don't have to understand it to believe it. They are literally One.

It's been explained, you chose to ignore the reality and where you can find it for yourself, so there's nowhere to go with this.

BTW, I've been teaching potential adult converts for 15 years within the Church. I've done the homework, and for you to state or even imply that I'm not a true Christian, as you have done, is completely unethical. Matter of fact, it shows that you actually don't seem to believe Jesus when he was asked "Which is the greatest Commandment of all?", thus it's you've who has blown Jesus' teaching off. However, I will not stoop to your low by saying or implying that you're not a Christian.

Jesus taught us to "love one another as I have loved you", and yet so many of your posts simply do not reflect that.

metis · Dec 30, 2022

ElishaElijah said:
I’m not the Word of God although Christ lives in me and the Holy Spirit teaches me the Truth.
You seem to put more authority on the teaching of men rather than God.

Paul said to beware of those who cause division within the Body, and that's exactly what you've been doing and what bothers me about your approach here.

Wildswanderer · Dec 30, 2022

metis said:
It's been explained, you chose to ignore the reality and where you can find it for yourself, so there's nowhere to go with this.

BTW, I've been teaching potential adult converts for 15 years within the Church. I've done the homework, and for you to state or even imply that I'm not a true Christian, as you have done, is completely unethical. Matter of fact, it shows that you actually don't seem to believe Jesus when he was asked "Which is the greatest Commandment of all?", thus it's you've who has blown Jesus' teaching off. However, I will not stoop to your low by saying or implying that you're not a Christian.

Jesus taught us to "love one another as I have loved you", and yet so many of your posts simply do not reflect that.

Actually pointing you to the truth is the most loving thing I could do. Letting you deny Christ being God is the opposite of loving.

metis · Dec 30, 2022

Wildswanderer said:
Actually pointing you to the truth is the most loving thing I could do. Letting you deny Christ being God is the opposite of loving.

Well, I'm done with your childish accusations as maybe you should do some serious Christian introspection and work on getting over yourself: Matthew 16[24] Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Vaya con Dios

Wildswanderer · Dec 30, 2022

metis said:
Well, I'm done with your childish accusations as maybe you should do some serious Christian introspection and work on getting over yourself: Matthew 16[24] Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Vaya con Dios

I'm childish for pointing to the truth? Yes if I wanted to just be nice and be liked I would go with the flow. Jesus didn't do that and neither should we. This isn't about me it's about him and I won't compromise to be liked by men.

muhammad_isa · Dec 30, 2022

Wildswanderer said:
..This isn't about me it's about him and I won't compromise to be liked by men.

..so that's your "truth" ?
That is what Jesus wanted us all to know?
..that he is God?

..and how does that help us exactly?
Are you suggesting that a person who believes that Jesus is God, will automatically go to heaven?
..and that a person who doesn't believe Jesus is God will not go to heaven?

What exactly, is it that your truth will do for another person .. and how?

Wildswanderer · Dec 30, 2022

muhammad_isa said:
..so that's your "truth" ?
That is what Jesus wanted us all to know?
..that he is God?

..and how does that help us exactly?
Are you suggesting that a person who believes that Jesus is God, will automatically go to heaven?
..and that a person who doesn't believe Jesus is God will not go to heaven?

What exactly, is it that your truth will do for another person .. and how?

Yes, belief in Jesus is belief in his deity.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Jesus being God incarnate IS the good new that brings salvation.

muhammad_isa · Dec 30, 2022

Wildswanderer said:
Jesus being God incarnate IS the good new that brings salvation.

..and how does that work, exactly?
If a person believes Jesus is God, then God rewards them with "heaven" .. is that right?
..and if a person does not believe that Jesus is God, then they get a booby prize?

..nothing to do with righteousness then .. that is irrelevant, is it?

Joshua Pryce · Dec 30, 2022

The thing is i believe Jesus Christ is God. For God to be perfectly just, He would have to come into creation and demonstrate a sinless nature and be outside of time in His message and being. He would have to perform miracles ordained by God so the Father or God as you would call Him. Totally approved of His message. Jesus message was claiming divinity. The Holy Spirit is given by Jesus personally
John 14:15-31
If the bible is true, this would mean Jesus is eternal and existed throughout the entire bible including in the old testament. Which means he is God.

paarsurrey · Dec 30, 2022

#98 Joshua Pryce, Religion: Spiritual Christian, Is Jesus Christ the True God?

Joshua Pryce said:
The thing is i believe Jesus Christ is God. For God to be perfectly just, He would have to come into creation and demonstrate a sinless nature and be outside of time in His message and being.

One's (blind) believing doesn't make a god or no-god, right?
Did (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah ever say:

"For God to be perfectly just, He would have to come into creation" (kindly quote for this claim to be from him , please) and that
"and demonstrate a sinless nature" (also kindly quote for this 2nd claim from him, please)
" and be outside of time in His message and being"(also kindly quote for these 3rd and 4th claims from him, please)?

Right?

Joshua Pryce said:
Jesus is eternal and existed throughout the entire bible including in the old testament.

These are all one's Hellenist-Paulian tinted perceptions, as one gets to know, not at all from Yeshua, it transpired, please, right?

One is a good human being and one needs to quote from Yeshua for all these claims
in first person in an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner, please. Right?

Regards

muhammad_isa · Dec 30, 2022

Joshua Pryce said:
The thing is i believe Jesus Christ is God. For God to be perfectly just, He would have to come into creation and demonstrate a sinless nature and be outside of time in His message and being..

Well, that doesn't make sense does it..
Why did God send Moses to Pharaoh, and then drown him and his army .. wasn't God "perfectly just" before Jesus was born?

Is Jesus Christ the True God?

Is Jesus Christ the God, and all other gods are false gods, i.e. idols?

Yes, you are right. Jesus Christ is the God, and all other gods are false gods, i.e. idols.

No. I am sorry.

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