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Will this trial be the last of its kind?

pearl

Well-Known Member
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MAINZ, Germany — A 97-year-old woman who worked as a secretary at a Nazi concentration camp was convicted by a German court Tuesday of being an accessory to the murder of more than 10,000 people.

In what could be the last trial of its kind, Irmgard Furchner — dubbed the ‘secretary of evil’ by German media — was handed a two-year suspended sentence for helping the Stutthof concentration camp to function during World War Two.

The trial, which was briefly delayed when Furchner went on the run by fleeing in a taxi, took place in juvenile court because she was 18 and 19 years old when she worked as a secretary for the camp's SS commander.

More than 60,000 people died in the camp near Gdansk, in today’s Poland, according to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum website — many by lethal injection and in the camp’s gas chamber, others from disease or starvation.
Among them were Jews, political prisoners, accused criminals, people suspected of homosexual activity, and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
97-year-old convicted over her complicity in more than 10,000 murders at Nazi camp (msn.com)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Only God can judge...but we are all different.
Nazis would have shot me with a fire squad after five seconds...because I will not obey orders, if they come from evil. Knowing me, how outspoken I am, they would have shot me right away.
Because this life is worthless, if we can't stand up to evil.
Is it worth it to live decades of life? One century?
No...it's absolutely worthless, if you can't stand up to evil.

But not everyone has a strong faith, so I deeply understand those who stake everything on this ephemeral worldly life.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Nazis would have shot me with a fire squad after five seconds...because I will not obey orders, if they come from evil.
They would have killed you regardless because your queer.
And, yeah, lots of people say that. But there are some fascinating letters from Nazis who felt the same but were convinced what they were doing wasn't evil but something necessary.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
They would have killed you regardless because your queer.
And, yeah, lots of people say that. But there are some fascinating letters from Nazis who felt the same but were convinced what they were doing wasn't evil but something necessary.

I am against death penalty.
Which puts criminals to death. Imagine putting innocent people to death.
So considering necessary a death machine that puts millions of innocent people to death drives me nuts.

I don't fear death...really...probably because I believe in an afterlife.
Nazis didn't believe in an afterlife, otherwise they wouldn't have done what they did.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I understand the desire to prosecute. The need, even. But I, personally, feel this was a bit excessive. A teenage book-keeper knew what was happening but kept the books, anyway. Perhaps even approved at the time. But she personally killed no one. She had no one killed. And she had no say whatever in the decision to kill people. And it was eighty years ago.

C'mon, that's beyond any reasonable degree of vengeance.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I understand the desire to prosecute. The need, even. But I, personally, feel this was a bit excessive. A teenage book-keeper knew what was happening but kept the books, anyway. Perhaps even approved at the time. But she personally killed no one. She had no one killed. And she had no say whatever in the decision to kill people. And it was eighty years ago.

C'mon, that's beyond any reasonable degree of vengeance.
A precedence of using time amd letting the clock expire to evade charges must not be set.
She knew what she was doing, she saw what was going on, she also had to have smelled it. And she apparently also heard about it in the office.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Except Nazi propaganda convinced Germans the Jews and others weren't innocent.
It's been proven that most Germans had no idea of what Concentration Camps were.
Not to mention the countless Germans who were executed for standing up against the regime.
And these martyrs probably didn't even know what CC were. Imagine if they had known.
They would have embraced martyrdom with much more conviction. That's what my point was.

Obeying the orders doesn't seem a good justification to me.
Because if nobody obeys the orders, a regime falls apart after 2 seconds.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
A precedence of using time amd letting the clock expire to evade charges must not be set.
She knew what she was doing, she saw what was going on, she also had to have smelled it. And she apparently also heard about it in the office.
So what? Even if she knew and approved, she still committed no crimes, herself. The whole of Germany and Poland must have smelled, seen, heard, or knew what was going on at some point.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I understand the desire to prosecute. The need, even. But I, personally, feel this was a bit excessive. A teenage book-keeper knew what was happening but kept the books, anyway. Perhaps even approved at the time. But she personally killed no one. She had no one killed. And she had no say whatever in the decision to kill people. And it was eighty years ago.

C'mon, that's beyond any reasonable degree of vengeance.

The sentence is suspended. She will not go to jail.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It's been proven that most Germans had no idea of what Concentration Camps were.
Not to mention the countless Germans who were executed for standing up against the regime.
And these martyrs probably didn't even know what CC were. Imagine if they had known.
They would have embraced martyrdom with much more conviction. That's what my point was.

Obeying the orders doesn't seem a good justification to me.
Because if nobody obeys the orders, a regime falls apart after 2 seconds.
They knew of things like the armbands, Night of Long Knives, and other policies against the Jews. It's not like they were blissfully ignorant and innocent. The concentration camps weren't the only abuses suffered.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
They knew of things like the armbands, Night of Long Knives, and other policies against the Jews. It's not like they were blissfully ignorant and innocent. The concentration camps weren't the only abuses suffered.

Surely...but most Germans didn't commit any crime. So they were not in on it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
So what? Even if she knew and approved, she still committed no crimes, herself. The whole of Germany and Poland must have smelled, seen, heard, or knew what was going on at some point.
Knowing and approving, yes, she did that. And it involved approving gruesome conditions, heinous torture and genocide. She was a part of that.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
The sentence is suspended. She will not go to jail.
But if I were her, I would be preoccupied with the criminal record of the afterlife, not the one of this life, given her age.
I see little reason for anyone in this life to care what she did 80 years ago as a teenage girl living through a war. She killed no one. And we were all stupid teenagers, once upon a time.
 
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