"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

3rdAngel said:

Your response here...

Your post here simply is seeking to explain away the scriptures with your words that are not Gods' Word. Lets look at everything you have posted here showing what your saying is in error if it can be helpful. What you have posted above simply does not even make sense. If 1 John 3:4 says sin is the transgression of the law how can each transgression of the law not be sin? Your claims here is not biblical neither does it make any sense and is in disagreement further with James in James 2:10-11 which says if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. So your understanding of the scriptures here are in error according to the bible.

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If I keep the royal law, "love your neighbour as yourself", I am doing right and fulfilling all the law.
If you want to live by a law, live by that law. If you live by the old covenant law then you become a transgressor of the law unless you live a perfect life.
Is that what you say a Christian must do, live by the law and so be judged as a breaker of the whole law?
If you want God to forgive you then forgive others, not accuse them of breaking the law. If you judge others you judge yourself and God will judge you. If all days are the same for me but you want to keep the Sabbath then do it and let me live my faith before the Lord.
And yes you can break laws and not sin. It is a matter at times of priorities. Does someone break the sabbath by digging all Saturday to free his donkey from a pit? He has broken the law and so is a sinner but is not guilty. Did David sin when he took the shew bread to feed his troops? Yes, but he was not guilty.

3rdAngel said:

Romans 14:23 tells us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin. 1 John 3:4 also defines sin as the breaking of anyone of Gods' commandments as shown in James 2:10-11. So it is not sin to obey Gods' Word that tells us to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". We show our faith by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says because whatsoever is not of faith is sin in Gods' eyes. James in James 2:13-26 also tells us that if we say we believe but do not do what Gods' Word says we do not have genuine faith and all we have is the dead faith of devils. So to say we just believe and not do what Gods' Word says only shows you do not understand what genuine faith is. Genuine faith therefore according to the scriptures is believing and following or obeying what Gods' Word says which is the fruit of genuine faith.

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What James is talking about is not acts of obedience to the Old Covenant law but acts of love for our neighbour.

3rdAngel said:

According to the scriptures God is not a respecter of persons (Acts 10:34) repentance and confession of sins (1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) are the very first conditions in receiving Gods' forgiveness.

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If the Spirit and the Word of God convict me of sin then I will repent, not when you accuse me of sin.

3rdAngel said:

Acts 5:29 has everything to do with all of us because none of us receive Gods' Spirit if we do not believe and obey what Gods' Word says. Gods Word says "Remember the Sabbath to day keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8-11). Gods' 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) in the new covenant *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11.

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In the new covenant the law is written in our heart and the new command, which if kept, fulfills the whole law, is to love our neighbour. By doing this we also end up loving God also.

3rdAngel said:

Acts 10:34-43 does not say anywhere that the gentiles received Gods' Spirit by practicing known unrepentant sin when the bible says God only gives the holy Spirit to all those who obey him in Acts 5:29. So perhaps your reading into the scriptures what is not said in the scriptures as your understanding of the scriptures here Brian contradicts what the scriptures teach earlier about repentance in Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; Acts 8:22; Acts 17:30-31. So to make a claim that repentance is not a requirement for receiving both Gods' Spirit and Gods' forgiveness of sins is not supported in the scriptures.

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Nobody is saying that repentance is not important. In Acts 10 God gave the Spirit to people who just heard of Jesus and believed and they may also have repented also but I doubt that they repented of not keeping the Sabbath and I doubt that they started to keep the Sabbath from that point on. Keeping all the law is not part of the New Covenant.
But yes you want the 10 commandments to be different to the rest of the law and something we should (or is that must) keep as Christians.

3rdAngel said:

So as shown from the scriptures above love is not separate from Gods law. Love is expressed in obeying Gods law from the heart. So disobedience to Gods law only shows we do not love God or our neighbor as our self as these two commandments are simply summing up all the law and the prophets according to Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12; John in 2 John 1:6; 1 John 5:2-4; 1 John 2:3-4 who are all in agreement with Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40.

As shown above dear friend your words here apply to yourself please receive Gods' correction from the scriptures and be blessed.

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The scripture says that loving God and neighbour fulfills the law (and that includes more than the 10 commandments) and you are making it into obeying the law fulfills the royal law of love.

Subduction Zone said:

Correct, you can support either claim. One says forever, another says that the soul dies. Both cannot be true. But both can be false.

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Both cannot be true, that is true. Both, according to the Bible are NOT true.
On the other hand, you don't believe in hellfire anyway, even if some so-called Christians believe and/or feel they can support it. (They can't, but anyway...) So since you don't believe in the Bible at all but also God, so it seems from your continual attacks on (almost) anything I say supporting the Bible, all I can say now is have a nice day/evening/afternoon -- whatever.

3rdAngel said: ↑ Your post here simply is seeking to explain away the scriptures with your words that are not Gods' Word. Lets look at everything you have posted here showing what your saying is in error if it can be helpful. What you have posted above simply does not even make sense. If 1 John 3:4 says sin is the transgression of the law how can each transgression of the law not be sin? Your claims here is not biblical neither does it make any sense and is in disagreement further with James in James 2:10-11 which says if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. So your understanding of the scriptures here are in error according to the bible.

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Your response here...

Brian2 said:

If I keep the royal law, "love your neighbour as yourself", I am doing right and fulfilling all the law.

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Your post here does not respond to the content in the post you are quoting from and it is also not what I have been saying to you, but lets address what you have said here if it might be helpful to the discussion. As posted in an earlier post there is no scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection which we also agree is a man-made teaching and tradition that came well after Jesus and the Apostles and the scriptures of the bible. The Royal law according to the scriptures is God's law and the same law that Jesus says on these two commandments of love to God and love to our fellow man hang all the law and the prophets. Therefore, love to God and man is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to what Gods' law says and is how love is expressed. To say we can now love our neighbor as our self and do not need to obey Gods' 10 commandments is a contradiction of the scriptures. For example how can we say we love our neighbour and then go and break Gods' 6th or 7th commandment and go out and murder your neighbor or go out and commit adultery with your neighbors spouse? - No, love therefore is expressed in obedience to Gods' law not by going out and disobeying what Gods law says. This is why James says in....

• JAMES 2:8-12 [8] IF YOU FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

That is loving our neighbour as our self is simply summing up our duty of love God our neighbour as revealed in Gods' 10 commandments which is why James is saying in James 2:10-11 if we keep the whole law and break one of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and condemned by the law. In fact Paul is also showing in Romans 13:8-10 that love to our neighbour is expressed in obedience to Gods' 10 commandments here...

• ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], OWE NO MAN ANYTHING, BUT TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER: FOR HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, IT IS SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, LOVE IS THE FULFILLING [DOING] OF THE LAW.

This is what Jesus is saying when he agrees with both James and Paul when he says in Matthew 22:36-40...

• MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

So according to the scripture love to God and our fellow man is expressed in obedience to Gods law not by breaking Gods law. Breaking Gods' law is only a sign that we do not know God (see 1 John 2:3-4).

Brian2 said:

If you want to live by a law, live by that law. If you live by the old covenant law then you become a transgressor of the law unless you live a perfect life.

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According to the scriptures "we are saved by Gods grace through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9. No one is saved by the law because all the law does is give us the knowledge of what sin is *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and shows us that everyone of us has sinned against God and in need of God's forgiveness and salvation from sin. Therefore, the law is our teacher that leads us to Christ that we might receive Gods' forgiveness through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. Therefore our salvation comes as we receive Gods' gift of grace through faith in Gods' Word. Faith according to Paul does not abolish the law it establishes the law in those who by faith believe and follow what Gods' Word says. So to say we no longer need to obey Gods' law is only a sign that we do not have genuine saving faith when it is written in the scriptures...

• ROMANS 3:31 31, DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

and again...

• ROMANS 8:1-4 1, THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,1 condemned sin in the flesh: 4, THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

No one can claim to know God or love God therefore by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments including Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods' 10 commandments according to the scriptures because love to God and our fellow man are expressed in obedience to Gods' law as we have faith in Gods' promises and have been born again to walk in Gods' Spirit (see also Romans 6:1-23)

• 1 JOHN 2:3-4 3, AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. 4, HE THAT SAITH, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

This is why Jesus says if you love me KEEP my commandments in John 14:15 and again those who love Him keep His commandments in John 15:10 and why John says in 1 John 5:3-4 for this is the love of God that we keep his commandments. No one can claims to know or love God therefore by living in disobedience to Gods law.

Brian2 said:

Is that what you say a Christian must do, live by the law and so be judged as a breaker of the whole law? If you want God to forgive you then forgive others, not accuse them of breaking the law. If you judge others you judge yourself and God will judge you. If all days are the same for me but you want to keep the Sabbath then do it and let me live my faith before the Lord. And yes you can break laws and not sin. It is a matter at times of priorities. Does someone break the sabbath by digging all Saturday to free his donkey from a pit? He has broken the law and so is a sinner but is not guilty. Did David sin when he took the shew bread to feed his troops? Yes, but he was not guilty.

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According to the scriptures Jesus tells us to " Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." - John 7:24. None of us are righteous therefore we cannot judge each other (see Romans 2:1-11). The only standard of "righteous judgement" therefore is Gods' Word because it is the standard of what is right and what is wrong. We as God's people we are to make judgement according to what is right and what is wrong as revealed in the scriptures. Doing good deed on the Sabbath according to the scriptures according to Jesus is not breaking Gods law it is obeying Gods law according to Jesus in Matthew 12:1-12. So we cannot break God's law in times of priorities. That is I cannot now go our and commit adultery with my neighbors wife because I feel it is a priority to because I am feeling lonely. Sin according to the scripture is the transgression or the breaking of anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following what Gods Word says (see 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 14:23). If we knowingly sin before God we stand guilty before God and in need of Gods' forgiveness (see Hebrews 10:26-31). No one therefore can claims to know God Brian if they are knowingly and willfully breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments. This includes Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath which is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20).

3rdAngel said:

Awesome, I really appreciate that as the OP has gone crazy off topic

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Yes, I tend to go off when I see something blatantly out of sort, but I'll work on getting back to the topic.

3rdAngel said:

SUNDAY WORSHIP IS NOT THE LORD'S DAY

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.

According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).

God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)

• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

............................

Your challenge here in this OP is to prove from the scriptures alone that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week. If you cannot all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that refers to Sunday as being "the Lords day".

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

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Just to start -- the "Lord's day" at Revelation is speaking of a period of time belonging to the Lord, or Jesus Christ, certainly not a 24-hour day. I'll start there. Why would anyone think that Jesus Christ has one day a week anyway? More, perhaps, later.

YoursTrue said:

Both cannot be true, that is true. Both, according to the Bible are NOT true.
On the other hand, you don't believe in hellfire anyway, even if some so-called Christians believe and/or feel they can support it. (They can't, but anyway...) So since you don't believe in the Bible at all but also God, so it seems from your continual attacks on (almost) anything I say supporting the Bible, all I can say now is have a nice day/evening/afternoon -- whatever.

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Corrections are not attacks. I was trying to explain to you why some Christians believe what they believe and how they defend it. That is a flaw with the religion.

samtonga43 said:

Well, I am answering you, SZ, even though you are not up living to the standards you demand of others.

I asked you to identify, in the post in question, the "false personal attacks I made". You must have had some idea in your mind of what these false personal attacks actually are.

Why is this so hard for you, SZ?
Why are you running away again?

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Because you have never lived up to your part of a discussion/debate. That is rather trollish behavior. It does not help when you pretend to be innocent and unaware. It is also hypocritical to demand others to follow the rules for a polite discussion when you have not done so yourself. I am not running away, I am waiting for a change in behavior.

3rdAngel said:

Your projecting again. Lets chat more when you can prove your claims and you have something to contribute to the threads discussion here.

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Sorry, but that is a false claim. By the way, where did you answer the question about:

1Peter 3 15?

3rdAngel said:

You are projecting again. You are the one running away because you are unable to address the post content that is in disagreement with you while deflecting with false claims and accusations your unable to prove. This of cause has already been proven with evidence posted in post # 602 linked and post # 642 linked but you would rather close your eyes and ears to receiving any help from others and admitting your mistakes and errors here. No one can change what they do not acknowledge. What has been shared with you here has only been shared as a help to you. If you cannot provide me a link to the question you asked in 1 Peter 3:15 then I challenge you to ask the question right here and now and lets discuss it and prove your false claims as they truly are - Nonsense and deflection.

Your response here...

Did you want to address what you are quoting from now. Let me re-post what you are quoting from. You are making false claims and accusations again you are not able to prove. I have asked you many times now to post me a single link where I have 1. not addressed your post content; 2. What is it in 1 Peter 3:15 you believe I have not responded to; or 3. Post me a link to the post you are talking about in case I missed it so we can discuss it. You have done neither which only shows once more you are making false claims and accusations you cannot prove as a distraction to the discussion and your unwilling to enter into a discussion and you have no evidence for what you say. Once more it only shows you running away. You have already lost here dear friend and others can see. Now let my push you a little further now. If you cannot post me a link to your question for discussion, I challenge you to just ask the question again and lets discuss it? If you cannot what do you have to prove your false claims? -Nothing because your making false claims as a distraction to your inability in being able to address the posts and scriptures that are in disagreement with you. Once again this only proves you are the one running away and once again by doing so you lose. I do like talking to you though.

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You appear to lack the ability to reason rationally. The fact that I refuse to play your silly game is not evidence for your claims. When you refuse to debate properly you lose the right to demand answers. I suggested a reasonable solution. You were participating until you realized that you would have to debate properly. So you ran away again.

Do you want evidence? You cannot post a complete set of rules that we agreed to. By the way one of the rules was that claims have to be correctly supported. You need links, quotes, and reasons. You only give links and unsupported claims. That is not evidence.

And where is your answer to 1 Peter 3 15?

Subduction Zone said:

Corrections are not attacks. I was trying to explain to you why some Christians believe what they believe and how they defend it. That is a flaw with the religion.

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If you read the Bible, you will see variances in worship as RECORDED that did not please God in many respects. Since you don't believe in God or think that the Bible is God's way of communicating to an extent with men, there is no use to go on about this. I just hope you realize that different forms of worship are recorded in that very detailed history book, preserved throughout the ages. Different interpretations do not mean the circumstance of recording or happening is flawed. Not all ways of worship as recorded in the Bible were all acceptable to God. Neither are they today.

Subduction Zone said:

Because you have never lived up to your part of a discussion/debate. That is rather trollish behavior. It does not help when you pretend to be innocent and unaware. It is also hypocritical to demand others to follow the rules for a polite discussion when you have not done so yourself. I am not running away, I am waiting for a change in behavior.

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Here we go again!
We hear the Trumpet blow again…
as it runs away again.

You are waiting for a change in behaviour, SZ?

This is not something that will happen unless you do some work on yourself. Know Thyself, SZ. Not easy but only then will your behaviour change.

When this happens you will be able (when you accuse someone of making ‘false personal attacks’) to provide some evidence to support your accusation, rather than run
away, as you are doing now.

Subduction Zone said:

Sorry, but that is a false claim. By the way, where did you answer the question about:

1Peter 3 15?

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I read 1 Peter 3:15 and will say that I have a hope for living, not per the theory of evolution, but because of God's miraculous ability to bring back to life what has died. Most people do not hope to die. What about you, do you have a hope for your future?

@Subduction Zone Oh, and the hope I have is for eternal life on a Paradise Earth is intertwined with the "Lord's Day." NOT meaning a Sunday or 24-hour 'day' of the week.

YoursTrue said:

@Subduction Zone Oh, and the hope I have is for eternal life on a Paradise Earth is intertwined with the "Lord's Day." NOT meaning a Sunday or 24-hour 'day' of the week.

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The "LORD's Day" per Joel 2:31-32 is the day of judgment. The day of the Lord, the 7th day, would better refer to the millennium which follows the "LORD's Day" (day of judgment) and is a time when the nations/Gentiles who survive will be ruled with a rod of iron (Rev 19:15) from Jerusalem (Zech 14:16). It is a time when a reunited Judah and Ephraim will live in peace under their own grape vines on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37), under the rule of king David. Many "strangers"/Gentiles will volunteer to become servants to Jacob/Israel. (Is 14:1-2). Many of the nations/Gentiles, will be sold into slavery (Joel 3:8). It will be time when the nations/Gentiles will bow down to the king in Jerusalem and keep the Feast of Booths or have no rain (Zech 14:16-17). I am not sure what kind of paradise one has without rain.

samtonga43 said:

Here we go again!
We hear the Trumpet blow again…
as it runs away again.

You are waiting for a change in behaviour, SZ?

This is not something that will happen unless you do some work on yourself. Know Thyself, SZ. Not easy but only then will your behaviour change.

When this happens you will be able (when you accuse someone of making ‘false personal attacks’) to provide some evidence to support your accusation, rather than run
away, as you are doing now.

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Sorry, you only confirmed that I was correct in my decision. To me you do not appear to be debating honestly. Didn't we have a long back and forth about the flood myth where you were shown to be wrong no matter what you posted? I know losing that way can sting, but there is an easy solution. Admit that you were wrong and move on.

Debate properly and you can ask questions and expect an answer.

YoursTrue said:

I read 1 Peter 3:15 and will say that I have a hope for living, not per the theory of evolution, but because of God's miraculous ability to bring back to life what has died. Most people do not hope to die. What about you, do you have a hope for your future?

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You misinterpreted it then. It is about to pass on the message about Jesus to others.

YoursTrue said:

@Subduction Zone Oh, and the hope I have is for eternal life on a Paradise Earth is intertwined with the "Lord's Day." NOT meaning a Sunday or 24-hour 'day' of the week.

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Okay, that is your belief, but we were not discussing that. You were discussing that with 3rd.

YoursTrue said:

If you read the Bible, you will see variances in worship as RECORDED that did not please God in many respects. Since you don't believe in God or think that the Bible is God's way of communicating to an extent with men, there is no use to go on about this. I just hope you realize that different forms of worship are recorded in that very detailed history book, preserved throughout the ages. Different interpretations do not mean the circumstance of recording or happening is flawed. Not all ways of worship as recorded in the Bible were all acceptable to God. Neither are they today.

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This is a huge red herring. So what? We were discussing why various Christians believe what they believe. Not why I believe what I believe. And even then it is wrongs because I used to be a Christian.

3rdAngel said:

... The funny thing is though he is still not getting it. I think it is because in his mind he wants to be right at all cost than to acknowledge he is simply wrong and receive helpful correction sadly.

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Uh oh…. That’s exactly what I said about you!!!!

3rdAngel said:

So we are agreed there is no scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection which we also agree is a man-made teaching and tradition that came well after Jesus and the Apostles and the scriptures of the bible. So are you not worried about the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 here it is written...

• Matthew 15:3-9 3, But he answered and said unto them, WHY DO YE ALSO TRANSGRESS THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD BY YOUR TRADITION? 4, FOR GOD COMMANDED, SAYING, HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER: AND, HE THAT CURSES FATHER OR MOTHER, LET HIM DIE THE DEATH. 5, BUT YE SAY, WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY TO HIS FATHER OR HIS MOTHER, IT IS A GIFT, BY WHATSOEVER YOU MIGHT BE PROFITED BY ME; 6, AND HONOR NOT HIS FATHER OR HIS MOTHER, HE SHALL BE FREE. THUS HAVE YE MADE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT BY YOUR TRADITION. 7, YE HYPOCRITES, WELL DID ESAIAS PROPHESY OF YOU, SAYING, 8, THIS PEOPLE DRAWS NIGH UNTO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS; BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. 9, BUT IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.

So tell me if we break the commandments of God in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that lead us away from what Gods' Word says to break the commandments of God are we worshiping God according to the warnings that Jesus gave above?

According to the scriptures God's word defines what day the Sabbath day is in God's 4th commandment which is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge in the new covenant of what sin is when disobeyed (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). God's 4th commandment tells us what day Gods' Sabbath day is here...

• Exodus 20:10 BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD...

Note the scriptures do not say any day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God like you are teaching.
We follow and worship God therefore by believing and following what Gods' Word says. No one worships God according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 by not believing Gods' Word and following man-made teachings and traditions that leads us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God according to the scriptures shown by John..

• 1 John 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.[4], WHOEVER COMMITS SIN TRANSGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

Does all the above not concern you? It should because it is written in the scriptures...

• MATTHEW 7:21-23 [21], NOT EVERYONE THAT SAYS TO ME LORD. LORD SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BUT HE THAT DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. [22],Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? [23], And THEN I WILL PROFESS TO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO WORK INIQUITY (sin).

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You write too much and expect answers to every part of what you write with a question at the end of it.

Flooding ….!!!

Let me say this, though: THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE that says that the Jewish Sabbath has been abolished… YET IT HAS BEEN except as CORPORATE WORSHIP.

As far as I know (and say what you will) the only people / group who worship the God of the Jews on the Jewish Sabbath in Christianity are SEVENTH DAY CHURCHES. And they constrain themselves just as the Jews do BY THEIR OVERSTRICT ADHERENCE and certainly are hypocritical about it many a time just as in the days of Jesus.

And, NO! I do not feel any way about Matthew 15:3-9 since Jesus himself ‘broke the sabbath’ on at least two occasions written in scriptures.

But what is said in Matthew 15:3-9 that you underlined is about the OVERSTRICKNESS that the Jews applied to the laws such that it became a millstone around their necks. This led them to the need to be HYPOCRITES in order to live any kind of realistic daily life.

I do not see you agreeing with the truth of this claim - which tells a tale in itself: Your response is a typical ‘So that’s a no, then!’ which actually says nothing about the answer I gave you but does show that you cannot agree with a truth.

Again, even when I showed you that SABBATH is THE DAY YOU DECIDE as being YOUR SABBATH… it passes over your head - or just goes right through you - or bounces off you -

Let me ask you this: ‘What was the purpose of the sabbath day?’

Your answer must be: ‘The day God set aside that a person should rest, worship God, and do good’.

As a single nation the Jews were all called to have their sabbath on the same day.

But GENTILES were not called to do so….

(Isn’t this the same argument between Peter and Paul about CIRCUMCISION? Yet Gentiles were never - and are never - called to be circumcised…)

So, are Gentiles called to worship on Friday-Saturday?

And what of those, Jews or Gentiles, who are designated to “BREAK THE SABBATH” by working on the Jewish sabbath because they are Emergency Workers?

Or should EVERYONE not work on the Jewish Sabbath - and we make a mockery of Jesus!

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that corporate worship was no longer to be on the mountain (as Samaritans wrongly did!) NOR in Jerusalem (as Jews rightly did!) … So where were they to worship now?

Worship is now to be : ‘In Spirit and Truth’

3rdAngel, What does that mean to you??