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Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago dinner guest:

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Let's talk about hospitality. In Judaism it is a very high priority to be hospitable. People are to open their houses to guests and strangers. As an example Abraham rushed to invite passersby to come into his tent for rest and a meal. There are similar principles in Christianity, Islam and other faiths.

Consider a scenario. A man knows someone and invites him to dinner. The guest who was invited comes but brings along someone else the man does not know. What should the man do? In Judaism the ethics would say to welcome the guest and his stranger, even though the man doesn't know him. Indeed to not do so would be considered a "sin".

The scenario is similar to what happened with President Trump, Kenye West and Fuentes.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
If it were under similar circumstances I would have no problem with it.
Mmm hmmm ...
But President Biden has done many other things I do question as related to Jews and Israel.
Has he? Does he regularly dine with anti-Semites, white nationalists and holocaust deniers? Do a bunch of those people make us his base? Has he made speeches in front of Jewish people where he uses all kinds of stereotypes and tropes like Trump has?

Mmm hmm indeed.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Mmm hmmm ...

Has he? Does he regularly dine with anti-Semites, white nationalists and holocaust deniers? Do a bunch of those people make us his base? Has he made speeches in front of Jewish people where he uses all kinds of stereotypes and tropes like Trump has?

Mmm hmm indeed.
Yes, President Biden has many among his followers who are anti-Semites. Have you heard of Ilhan Omar? Have you heard of the BSD movement whose members hate Jews and Israel and by and large support Biden? Have you read of the many hostile things President Biden has done to Israel and Jews since taking office?

Mmm, hmm....
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Yes, President Biden has many among his followers who are anti-Semites. Have you heard of Ilhan Omar? Have you heard of the BSD movement whose members hate Jews and Israel and by and large support Biden? Have you read of the many hostile things President Biden has done to Israel and Jews since taking office?

Mmm, hmm....
This BSD movement?

"Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) is a Palestinian-led movement for freedom, justice and equality. BDS upholds the simple principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity.

Israel is occupying and colonising Palestinian land, discriminating against Palestinian citizens of Israel and denying Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes. Inspired by the South African anti-apartheid movement, the BDS call urges action to pressure Israel to comply with international law.

BDS is now a vibrant global movement made up of unions, academic associations, churches and grassroots movements across the world. Since its launch in 2005, BDS is having a major impact and is effectively challenging international support for Israeli apartheid and settler-colonialism."
BDS Movement



Does this sound like supporters of the "BDS movement" support President Biden to you?



"Joe Biden “firmly” rejects the BDS movement, shamefully opposing the global nonviolent struggle for Palestinian freedom, justice and equality. Cutting US military aid to Israel is vital to the progressive agenda of #HealthcareNotWarfare and social, racial, climate and gender justice.

By rejecting BDS, Joe Biden endorses US complicity in Israel’s decades-old regime of occupation, colonialism and apartheid, and supports depriving Palestinians of our fundamental human rights.

As Israel threatens de jure annexation, Biden advertises US military funding to Israel as “the best $3 billion investment we make.” Yet this “investment” enables Israel’s war crimes and crimes against humanity - massacres, ethnic cleansing, home demolitions and the siege of Gaza. Most Democratic voters now endorse sanctions on Israel, including conditioning military aid.

Americans should deplore US complicity in Israel’s oppression, especially at a time of heightened repression under the cover of COVID-19. #SpreadSolidarity"
Biden shamefully opposes global nonviolent struggle for Palestinian freedom, justice and equality
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
President Trump is far from an anti-Semite. Quite the opposite he is a Judeophile. He brought about the Abrahamic Accords bringing peace between Israel and many of its former adversaries. He moved the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. And recently he received the Theodor Herzl Gold Medallion from the Zionist Organization of America, its highest honor and one rarely given.
Well, if you're not willing to look at some of the things he's said from an objective viewpoint, then I can fully understand why you draw such a conclusion, as you obviously do not understand that fascists/neo-fascists cater to the populace, not for the latter's sake but to gain their support. If you actually studied the rise of power with Mussolini, Hiter, and Franco, this is a tactic they successfully used.

And what about his continued support of "Chistian nationalism", which is also anti-Semitic, such as we see with his support of the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, both of which are anti-Semitic? What about his blatant record of dishonesty as being a well-known con man.

IOW, open your eyes.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
So, we read ...
  1. The Hill: Pro-Israel group that honored Trump blasts his meeting with Ye and Fuentes, and
  2. The Hill: Netanyahu on Trump dining with Ye, Nick Fuentes: 'Wrong and misplaced'
and yet, despite this repudiation from two of the most right wing Jewish voices, you continue to carry Trump's water, all while seeking to hide behind the Jewish (and nomadic) value of hacknasat orchim.

Apparently, shamelessness has no limits.
Yep, and the ADL has strongly criticized Trump as a threat to this country and also Jews in particular because of Trump's support for right-wing extremist elements.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
So, do you blindly believe everything you hear on Fox?

This is not the first anti-Semitic association that Trump has had or mouthed, and it's a wonder why you don't even seem to much care. Kanye West has long been known as being anti-Semitic and he has met with Trump numerous times.

See:
Donald Trump’s anti-Semitism controversies: A timeline | The Times of Israel

Trump's comments on American Jews were anti-Semitic -White House | Reuters

Trump's legal troubles mount as Oath Keepers plan to throw him under the bus at sedition trial (msn.com)

Sometimes I wonder if Ivanka married and became a Jew as a smokescreen.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
You don't know what you are talking about as evidenced by your claiming that I listen to Fox. I don't. I don't listen to or watch Fox.

President Trump is far from an anti-Semite. Quite the opposite he is a Judeophile. He brought about the Abrahamic Accords bringing peace between Israel and many of its former adversaries. He moved the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. And recently he received the Theodor Herzl Gold Medallion from the Zionist Organization of America, its highest honor and one rarely given.

I think he does whatever the evangelical right want him to.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Trump lashes out at Kanye West as aides rush to reinstate guardrails at Mar-a-Lago (msn.com)

The backlash over former president Donald Trump’s pre-Thanksgiving meal with antisemitic rapper Kanye West and white nationalist Nick Fuentes has led the twice-impeached ex-president’s aides to revive a 2020-era measure used to keep him from embarrassing himself while Mr Trump is reportedly blaming the disgraced musician for the negative press.

According to a source who spoke to NBC News, Mr Trump has directed his anger at Mr West, who just two years ago waged a third-party presidential campaign aimed at siphoning votes off from Joe Biden to help the then-president win reelection.

“He tried to f*** me. He’s crazy. He can’t beat me,” the ex-president said, referring to Mr West’s stated intention to mount another campaign for the presidency with an eye towards the 2024 general election.

According to reports, it was Mr West who brought Mr Fuentes, a Holocaust denier and white nationalist who has long been one of Mr Trump’s most vocal supporters, to the ex-president’s Mar-a-Lago club last week.

NBC reported that the dinner was initially supposed to be a two-man affair for Mr Trump to sit down with his friend in the wake of the Mr West’s public expulsion by multiple business partners who no longer wanted to be associated with him following a series of racist and antisemitic remarks on social media and elsewhere.

Instead, Mr West (who now legally goes by the mononym “Ye”) brought a trio of guests including Mr Fuentes, an ex-campaign aide Karen Giorno, and online troll, former Breitbart News staffer Milo Yiannopoulos.

In response to the nearly universal and bipartisan outrage from the news that Mr Trump broke bread with the controversial figures, aides to Mr Trump are making arrangements to keep at least one staffer from his nascent presidential campaign at his side at nearly all times.

The decision revives a similar arrangement that was in place during his presidency to keep him from coming across people who could bring political headaches for him.

While access to Mr Trump was tightly controlled during his White House years thanks to strict security protocols, at his Mar-a-Lago estate he is known to walk freely about and interact with members who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for the privilege.

So, I guess Trump is throwing Ye under the bus.

This is just too dang bizarre. Sometimes, when I see the way the events in politics unfold and get reported, it's almost like "Confuse A Cat." Except this time, it's "Vex A Voter."
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
So, we read ...
  1. The Hill: Pro-Israel group that honored Trump blasts his meeting with Ye and Fuentes, and
  2. The Hill: Netanyahu on Trump dining with Ye, Nick Fuentes: 'Wrong and misplaced'
and yet, despite this repudiation from two of the most right wing Jewish voices, you continue to carry Trump's water, all while seeking to hide behind the Jewish (and nomadic) value of hacknasat orchim.

Apparently, shamelessness has no limits.

What I read was Ye brought Fuentes along to make Trump squirm. It started as two friends hazing each other for fun. It may not have turned out as harmless as Ye hoped. The Left appeared ready for this prank to become a big deal.

The Left still fears Trump and continues night and day reaching for straws. This will be forgotten in the next news cycle. I dislike the idea of censorship, even via political correctness. PC is designed to end the discussion, so flaws are not found.

I look forward to the Republican oversight committee investigating the Hunter Biden laptop coverup. That may have stole the election for Biden. It touches on so many incestuous relationships centered on Washington.

Social Media was visited by the Swamp FBI, on behalf of Democrats leaders, to censor a true story and then circle the wagons for Biden with misinformation. This may finally explain the need for the Russian Collusion Coup; accuse others of what you did, and then hide in plain sight. Nobody saw the laptop coming as the spoiler. It may be good that the Cabal worked together to misinform the public about the laptop, so America can finally see what really goes on behind the scenes.
 
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Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I actually think our American friends did a better job in the recent mid-terms of rejecting bat-guano crazy candidates than in recent memory.

So...regardless of how successful whack jobs like this are within their own echo chambers...I have more faith in the American voting public than I've had in years.
You do make an excellent point, I have to admit.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
These left-wing attacks on Trump are becoming more and more desperate, as 2024 draws near.

Honestly… the dinner table can be a great place to meet people, get to know them, set aside your differences, find common ground, conduct diplomacy, build bridges and network with people, negotiate and compromise, make peace with enemies, exchange views, strengthen ties with allies, and extract information. Or even, just laugh and have a good time.

It mean it’s like people here behave as if they’ve never been to parties or cookouts before. You aren’t going to see eye to eye with every person in attendance. Some people there might even hate each other. There might be people there whose views are absolutely repulsive to you. You can all still sit down and dine together and control what you think, say, and do, and get something beneficial out of it.
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Just a friendly cookout.
images


Nothing to see here.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
These left-wing attacks on Trump are becoming more and more desperate, as 2024 draws near.

Honestly… the dinner table can be a great place to meet people, get to know them, set aside your differences, find common ground, conduct diplomacy, build bridges and network with people, negotiate and compromise, make peace with enemies, exchange views, strengthen ties with allies, and extract information. Or even, just laugh and have a good time.

It mean it’s like people here behave as if they’ve never been to parties or cookouts before. You aren’t going to see eye to eye with every person in attendance. Some people there might even hate each other. There might be people there whose views are absolutely repulsive to you. You can all still sit down and dine together and control what you think, say, and do, and get something beneficial out of it.
You were asked by @SkepticThinker in an earlier (unanswered) post to imagine that it was Joe Biden who this troll was having dinner with, and whether your answer respond in the same way. Or perhaps you might have found it an appropriate thing to have a go at Biden over?

Your non-answer, it seems to me, is instructive.

When I was growing up, I was always told that "you are known by the company you keep," which was always seen as a warning to not associate with those who could seriously damage your personal social cred.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
You were asked by @SkepticThinker in an earlier (unanswered) post to imagine that it was Joe Biden who this troll was having dinner with, and whether your answer respond in the same way. Or perhaps you might have found it an appropriate thing to have a go at Biden over?

Your non-answer, it seems to me, is instructive.
You seem confused. I am Aštra’el (formerly Ashtara :firstqmoon:), not Shaul:
FC44233B-4661-42B6-8ABE-B0C9EAE640C1.jpeg


I forgive your mistake, and I do not hold your nature against you.

To answer that question though, no, I would not hold it against Biden. Unlike others here, I do not go around seeking out things to be outraged about. It takes a lot.

When I was growing up, I was always told that "you are known by the company you keep," which was always seen as a warning to not associate with those who could seriously damage your personal social cred.
There is value in that. Reputation is important, and you can’t always go blaming people for what assumptions they’ve made about you from looking at your companions.

However. The Christians who raised me believed in an Exemplar of unconditional love who dined with prostitutes and tax collectors, who saw something bright and “good” in even the people society deemed to be the lowest of the low. There is value in this as well.

My perspective?

I can find something to respect and admire in any person, no matter how beautiful or terrible they have become, and no matter how different or alike our Weltanschauung might be. I enjoy establishing connections and networking with people, and in proving my value. Additionally… those who have earned my trust, love and respect can hold whatever views they wish. They can live as a saint or a villain, embrace God(s) or denounce God(s), conform to society or become a pariah. I will be honest with them about my approval or disapproval, but I will still have their backs. That is what loyalty is all about. I am loyal to those who have proven themselves loyal to me… and while my default setting might be indifference towards most peoples’ issues, I do not go eagerly looking for reasons to despise them. My focus is better directed elsewhere.

Dine with whom you please, I do not require an explanation.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
What I find utterly amazing is that you are comparing this to a cookout and expect to be take seriously. It truly is a stunning bit of intellectually bankrupt cesspool apologetics.

You do not have to complain all the time, you know. You could just instead smile and say, “Thank you Aštra’el for your beautiful and inspiring message. It really touched my heart. I am going to have a wonderful day now thanks to you.”
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
You do not have to complain all the time, you know. You could just instead smile and say, “Thank you Aštra’el for your beautiful and inspiring message. ...”

I can't wait. Flag me when you post it.

BTW, I've given over 4,000 [positive] frubals over the years ...:)
 
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