It wasn't clear that you understood.
Not all Pubs.
I don't think your argument is as evidenced as you believe.
Agree to disagree about the possibility I proposed.
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Is the Republican Party suffering a complete moral collapse?
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
I don't think your argument is as evidenced as you believe.
Agree to disagree about the possibility I proposed.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Even plenty of Christians are better people and more tolerant than what their god permits.
The Republican Party itself is not renouncing it's worst members en masse. Rather, instead as an establishment and party it still allows those who would overturn the election based on fairytales and myths,and encourages them to do so.
*As I typed that I got a push alert that two RW extremists were found guilty of sedition. Lets see if the Republican Party will distance themselves and denounce those terrorists (I doubt it).
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
It's progress, but how is the Republican establishment handling it?
We'll see.
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
Wouldn't a "collapse" imply previously existing morals? I prefer to think of it as the mask slipping off.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I had to vote "Yes" as the majority of Republicans have bought into the Big Lie and supported and voted for a president who defies even the most basic Judeo-Christian and humanitarians ethics as even the likes of Stephen Hawking noted*. A majority of the "religious right" have voted for and supported Trump and still do, and that's basically a thumb in the eye of Jesus' Sermon On the Mount that posits a totally different teaching than Trump and his followers.
As Gandhi said, all too many Christians "elevated the man and forgot his message".
* “He is a demagogue, who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator.” -- Stephen Hawking
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
Let me see if I understand your reasoning...
Premise 1. Some Republicans (including Trump himself, btw) expressed negative feelings about the the presence of Nick Fuentes and Kanye West at his dinner.
Premise 2. Not all Arizona counties certified the vote.
Conclusion 1: Republicans don't care what voters think.
Conclusion 2: Republicans are trying to make it hard for minorities to vote.
Final Conclusion: Republicans are suffering a complete moral collapse.
Premise 2. Not all Arizona counties certified the vote.
Conclusion 1: Republicans don't care what voters think.
Conclusion 2: Republicans are trying to make it hard for minorities to vote.
Final Conclusion: Republicans are suffering a complete moral collapse.
There's not enough of an argument here to justify your conclusions. I regard your final conclusion as hyperbole at best.
I was careful to say "Republican Party" (note the capitals) rather than the more inclusive Republicans. By which I was hoping you might see that I was referring to all those members, elected and seeking election, who are remaining steadfastly silent on what should be an important issue.
I am aware, as @lewisnotmiller pointed out in another thread, that the Republican electorate, overall, had a better moral showing than those seeking election.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
Ah, politicians are scum?
I'm not sure how important Kanye and Nick's visit should be - it's importance seemed to be on the level of highschool drama.
Election certification on the other hand seems more important. And the certification battle appears to indicate that the Republican Party does care what voters think. It also seems that the Republican Party would like to have more minority vote, which is a growing demographic for Republicans right now.
When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?
You are known by the company you keep.
The election itself represents "what the voters think." The urge not to certify says precisely the opposite of what you just suggested -- that if Republicans didn't get all the votes they think they deserve, then the votes they got shouldn't count.
Anyone who supposes that their church is infallible isn't thinking too clearly. Churches are human institutions.When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That's because they accept not everyone believes as they do, not everyone is the same religion and denomination they are, amd it's unAmerican and unConstitutional to base legislation on religion and force others into religious observance.When I think "moral collapse", I think of those politicians who had their Church inform them that they are advocating against the mores of their Church (Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden). But don't you have to have morals before they can collapse?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
We in Catholicism, including Nancy & Joe, have the right of personal discernment as the Church teaches per the Catechism. IOW, the Church is not the Gestapo.
I voted “never had a moral centre” as a driving force ,imo of course.
I think those who said they never had a moral centre are being more cynical than historical.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
That's a perfect summation of the highschool clique mentality. It also plays nicely into team think.
Why wouldn't you want to be certain of the vote before you certify it (if the vote is "what the voters think")?
What point you are trying to make?
Churches are not infallible. Some people aren't thinking clearly.
Therefore... ?
Pelosi is infallible? Biden is moral? The Republican Party is suffering "moral collapse"?
I would -- but the question is (as it was in 2020), how many different ways are you going to count votes for which you already set up a system you felt would accurately record them?
Think about it for a moment -- how many Republicans are still trying to throw out elections from 2020?
Is the only characteristic of a "fair election" the fact that you won? Because that's what Republicans continue to do, on and on and on ad nauseum. And ad absurdum.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
In the last election certain election boards had to be threatened by a judge in Arizona. They would not accept that their Republican governor lost her re-election bid.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And which morals did they supposedly violate? And why are you implying they have none? Seems to me that you're acting like both judge and jury and assuming their guilt, which is a rather clear violation of Judeo-Christian and basic democratic ethics.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Is it though? I mean, do you spend a lot of your time hanging out with Nazis? Invite them to your home for dinner? What do you think it might say about you if you did?
If you had a child in high school who was hanging out with kids who mug elderly ladies on a weekly basis, would you be at all concerned about your child and what (s)he might be up to?
I mean, seriously, we're not allowed to judge people who hang out with white supremacists now? Nah. I'm gonna keep calling out that kind of crap.
Why wouldn't you want to be certain of the vote before you certify it (if the vote is "what the voters think")?
What point you are trying to make?
Churches are not infallible. Some people aren't thinking clearly.
Therefore... ?
Pelosi is infallible? Biden is moral? The Republican Party is suffering "moral collapse"?