What makes a Christian?

Kenny said:

You said "eating children".

I suspect that:

1) you exaggerated
2) If not, they weren't Christians in the first place
3) You seem to exemplify the very attitude you don't like others to do
4) You forget that people have called Christians "cannibals"

You were saying?

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11No exaggeration and you know it but are unwilling to acknowledge it. It is so easy to blame the victim than your beloved Christianity... Figures.
2 So you decide who is and who isn't Christian, there is a lot of it about among Christians
3 Eh?
4 Not me or any atheist i know. And I've never seen it do you have examples so you can shift the blame away from christians?

Yes, i was saying, if you listened you would hear that

Kenny said:

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

you are right... it does hold up.

I think you are getting it.

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That is evidence, source please?

mikkel_the_dane said:

Because she has a different cultural understanding than yours. We are playing a variation of the No True Scotsman problem.

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Again... what is a Christian to her? (Usually quoting some variation of a fallacy is an attempt to not address a question)

Kenny said:

Again... what is a Christian to her? (Usually quoting some variation of a fallacy is an attempt to not address a question)

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I am not going to play the game of the correct objective version, because it is to me to different subjective ones.
So here it is in practice. To you, you have the objectively correct one, yet she still do differently.

ChristineM said:

11No exaggeration and you know it but are unwilling to acknowledge it. It is so easy to blame the victim than your beloved Christianity... Figures.
2 So you decide who is and who isn't Christian, there is a lot of it about among Christians
3 Eh?
4 Not me or any atheist i know. And I've never seen it do you have examples so you can shift the blame away from christians?

Yes, i was saying, if you listened you would hear that

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1) I take that as admitting it was an exaggeration
2) That isn't what I said and I know you know that.
3) You say that Christians trash talk atheists but then again, you are doing fine yourself. That is what the world does. Actually, a more biblical position is, "Hey, we are all in the same boat and we don't throw stones of judgment on each other. God is the judge of hearts we aren't". In other words, you are NOT a child eater (I don't think any real Christian would say that neither have I heard that"). You are a normal person that has good desires and many times miss it just like I do
4) Didn't say it was an atheist that said it, did I? All I said is that people have said it, as I have personally heard it. So, if you want to charge me with "you don't want to admit it"... well, that would cut both ways.

EDIT:

Actually, I do admit that there are Christians who wrongly say, "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" - even though it isn't the message that Jesus wanted us to propagate.

Kenny said:

1) I take that as admitting it was an exaggeration
2) That isn't what I said and I know you know that.
3) You say that Christians trash talk atheists but then again, you are doing fine yourself. That is what the world does. Actually, a more biblical position is, "Hey, we are all in the same boat and we don't throw stones of judgment on each other. God is the judge of hearts we aren't". In other words, you are NOT a child eater (I don't think any real Christian would say that neither have I heard that"). You are a normal person that has good desires and many times miss it just like I do
4) Didn't say it was an atheist that said it, did I? All I said is that people have said it, as I have personally heard it. So, if you want to charge me with "you don't want to admit it"... well, that would cut both ways.

EDIT:

Actually, I do admit that there are Christians who wrongly say, "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" - even though it isn't the message that Jesus wanted us to propagate.

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Well you are getting there. Now you "owe" one for the poor people cheating the system.

Kenny said:

1) I take that as admitting it was an exaggeration
2) That isn't what I said and I know you know that.
3) You say that Christians trash talk atheists but then again, you are doing fine yourself. That is what the world does. Actually, a more biblical position is, "Hey, we are all in the same boat and we don't throw stones of judgment on each other. God is the judge of hearts we aren't". In other words, you are NOT a child eater (I don't think any real Christian would say that neither have I heard that"). You are a normal person that has good desires and many times miss it just like I do
4) Didn't say it was an atheist that said it, did I? All I said is that people have said it, as I have personally heard it. So, if you want to charge me with "you don't want to admit it"... well, that would cut both ways.

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1 I don't lie, but feel free to say whatever massages your ego.
2 yes it was.
3 i am relating experience, you don't like it tough.
4 what i said was "Not me or any atheist i know. And I've never seen it do you have examples so you can shift the blame away from christians?"
So i assume you have no examples. Fair enough

mikkel_the_dane said:

I am not going to play the game of the correct objective version, because it is to me to different subjective ones.
So here it is in practice. To you, you have the objectively correct one, yet she still do differently.

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I would hold on to the position that as an eye is not an ear and yet is part of the same body, that there are potential positions that the eye would look at the ear and say "I don't agree with your position that you are an eye because you don't look like an eye". And yet, they are still part of the same body.

So, when I fellowship with the ear that believes that miracles are no longer, I still fellowship with that group of people because I know that they are part of the body. I may not agree with their viewpoint since I am an eye and not an ear, I still understand we have the same DNA.

ChristineM said:

1 I don't lie, but feel free to say whatever massages your ego.
2 yes it was.
3 i am relating experience, you don't like it tough.
4 what i said was "Not me or any atheist i know. And I've never seen it do you have examples so you can shift the blame away from christians?"
So i assume you have no examples. Fair enough

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1) Ok... as I mentioned in the first go around, if it wasn't an exaggeration, then they probably aren't a Christian because "He that loveth not, knoweth not God for God is love". Sounds more like hatred to me so I would assume that they don't know God. He would know - just lolling at the fruit.
2) Then you misread or I explained myself very poorly (which can happen)
3) If it was an experience, on their behalf, please forgive us. It was wrong
4) Not shifting blame... just making then statement that what goes around comes around and no one has the corner on the market.

4a... An example of what?

Kenny said:

I would hold on to the position that as an eye is not an ear and yet is part of the same body, that there are potential positions that the eye would look at the ear and say "I don't agree with your position that you are an eye because you don't look like an eye". And yet, they are still part of the same body.

So, when I fellowship with the ear that believes that miracles are no longer, I still fellowship with that group of people because I know that they are part of the body. I may not agree with their viewpoint since I am an eye and not an ear, I still understand we have the same DNA.

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Here it is for culture in Denmark. Because we are state protestants, then over time the love thy neighbor as yourself, it became a part of the state and government without the same religious culture that you are a part.
So the odd thing is than as absurd as it is, we Danes are by culture Christian, yet also not standard religious by your standard.
How? Well, love thy neighbor as yourself is both the responsibility of me as an individual and the state/government.

Kenny said:

1) Ok... as I mentioned in the first go around, if it wasn't an exaggeration, then they probably aren't a Christian because "He that loveth not, knoweth not God for God is love". Sounds more like hatred to me so I would assume that they don't know God. He would know - just lolling at the fruit.
2) Then you misread or I explained myself very poorly (which can happen)
3) If it was an experience, on their behalf, please forgive us. It was wrong
4) Not shifting blame... just making then statement that what goes around comes around and no one has the corner on the market.

4a... An example of what?

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An example of christians being accused of cannibalism

And yes they were Christian




And there's no point in going on

Heyo said:

What are, in your opinion, the defining characteristics of a Christian?

There are 41,000+ denominations in Christianity. ...

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Difficult to believe that number. But, in Biblical point of view a Christians means a disciple of Jesus.

When he found him, he brought him to Antioch, and for a whole year they were guests of the church and taught a large crowd. It was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

And person is truly a disciple of Jesus, if he remains in word of Jesus.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

Different denominations come when some people love more their own ideas than what Jesus said.

Vinayaka said:

If the person calls themselves a Christian, (in my previous discussion, a Hindu) then they are

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Agreed. From an outsider's perspective, that's good enough. I have no behavioral test for Christianity and my only doctrinal test is whether they actually believe the basic Christian theology - there is a tri-omni God who communicated with man and left a revelation, and we have an immortal soul tainted with original sin and needing redemption through belief in Jesus. If you believe that, you're a Christian to me, whatever else you believe, and I'm not going to quiz you to confirm that. Calling oneself a Christian is good enough. After all, whenever any Christian (or anybody else) tells us how many Christians there are in the world, that's the definition they're using - they said they were Christian in a census or some other poll. Like me (and you), the pollsters don't quiz the respondents to see what they actually believe.

Christians use other definitions, but their beliefs are different. Most seem to have behavioral tests - that one's not a true Christian because he's not Christlike enough - but why would an unbeliever exclude such a person from Christianity just because he's an ethical failure to Christians. I don't believe that this religion makes people better people, so that can't be a part of the definition.

When I was a Christian, I had a different answer altogether. A Christian is whomever the Christian God accepts into heaven. Who are we to say that this one is a Christian and that one isn't when the first might be hell bound but not the second? By that reckoning, nobody can say who is a Christian but God.

Kenny said:

We would call the cancer cells "from the enemy" - and our white corpuscles would view it the same way

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The trick of the cancer cells is that they are made of your own cells. They are not invaders like bacteria or viruses. That makes them unrecognizable by your white corpuscles.

And to use this analogy, there may be "Christians" who are made from the same DNA, like believing in Jesus but being insufferable pricks anyway.
You now have the options to be a "lumper" and say that your minimal criteria include the cancer or be a "splitter" and find a criterion that excludes the cancer.
The more criteria you have the less people will fit them - and the less Christians will agree with you.
This thread is to find the criteria a vast majority of Christians can agree upon and my prediction is that it will come down to "I believe in Jesus". So pretty much no relevant information. When someone says they are a Jehovah's Witness, I know a lot about them, like their very consequential pacifism. When some says they are a Christian, I know nothing.

Applying it to Christianity, it would be those who are wolves in sheep clothing.

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Like WBC and NIFB?

It sounds like you are looking for something in specific since you were speaking generally before. If you want to narrow it down. Jesus died for our sins, his blood washes our sins, he resurrected to deliver us from death and making Him our Lord seals the convenent.

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Seems like a good working thesis. Now let's see if all Christians in this thread can agree to that and if we can add further criteria.

wellwisher said:

In many places, such as in Southern USA, a group of neighbors can hire a preacher, build a meeting place to form another church. The 41,000 churches is misleading since it like saying we each need to choose who will be our primary care physician, therefore, each group with a different doctor, is another form of medicine. This choice of doctor is as much for the soul as the body.

Science will claim there is only one form of modern Medicine. If this is true why do need to make a choice? I suppose we can look at it either way since they all prescribe the same pills even if they went to different medical schools.

When I lived in southern USA, people choose or form a church for the community and the preacher. They want to feel community, along with their faith. The smaller churches have to pay tithes to support the salary of the preacher and the upkeep of church, Some people felt better about this shared responsibility being among birds of a feather. Hospitals also market themselves with this in mind.

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See this post.

1213 said:

Difficult to believe that number. But, in Biblical point of view a Christians means a disciple of Jesus.

When he found him, he brought him to Antioch, and for a whole year they were guests of the church and taught a large crowd. It was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

And person is truly a disciple of Jesus, if he remains in word of Jesus.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

Different denominations come when some people love more their own ideas than what Jesus said.

Click to expand...

See this post.

mikkel_the_dane said:

Here it is for culture in Denmark. Because we are state protestants, then over time the love thy neighbor as yourself, it became a part of the state and government without the same religious culture that you are a part.
So the odd thing is than as absurd as it is, we Danes are by culture Christian, yet also not standard religious by your standard.
How? Well, love thy neighbor as yourself is both the responsibility of me as an individual and the state/government.

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That is quite beautiful.... for those who understand the principle. It just might be like what will happen when, as I believe, Jesus is at the helm of all government.

There is just one thorn that bothers me in today's governmental help. People tend to not "love your neighbor as yourself" because they say, "I have already paid my taxes, let the government help you." absolving themselves of the responsibility that is still there.

It's the good samaritan parable where those in charge of following love pass them by.

Heyo said:

The trick of the cancer cells is that they are made of your own cells. They are not invaders like bacteria or viruses. That makes them unrecognizable by your white corpuscles.

And to use this analogy, there may be "Christians" who are made from the same DNA, like believing in Jesus but being insufferable pricks anyway.
You now have the options to be a "lumper" and say that your minimal criteria include the cancer or be a "splitter" and find a criterion that excludes the cancer.

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Actually, that is a good application. We would call them, scripturally, carnal Christians and, in some cases, baby Christians.

Heyo said:

The more criteria you have the less people will fit them - and the less Christians will agree with you.

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True - and thus I relegated it to death, burial and resurrection and the Lordship of Jesus. That would include Protestants, Catholics, LDS and JW.

Heyo said:

Like WBC and NIFB?

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LOL - you got me! What does that mean.

Heyo said:

Seems like a good working thesis. Now let's see if all Christians in this thread can agree to that and if we can add further criteria.

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Sounds good.

ChristineM said:

No imagination needed it's been said to me often as well my children threatened with burning in hell because I don't believe.

Oh, and i have been physically attacked once and spit on and/or jostling on occasion.

It's attitudes like yours that propagate such abuse by ignoring it happens and blaming the victim. Far better if you helped to sort Christianity out.

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I have noticed that most Christians are often adept at gaslighting non-Christians or even other Christians in their fervent attempts to defend Christianity. In fact, I've met some who immediately dismissed my negative experiences when I was a Christian, accusing me of exaggerating, imagining things, or not remembering things correctly. They tried to manipulate me into doubting my own memories and tried to make me feel guilty for sharing my experiences with others. I've been gaslighted on RF, but not just from a Christian.

Heyo said:

What are, in your opinion, the defining characteristics of a Christian?

There are 41,000+ denominations in Christianity. That fact alone shows that there have to be a lot of differences between them. But are there still communalities left? Has the claim to be a Christian any value any more?
Being an atheist answers exactly one question and nothing more. Does being a Christian tell me more?

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Biblically speaking, any individual who trusts Jesus for salvation is forgiven of sin now and perfected from doing sin later, to enter Heaven, even skeptics at RF! Praise Jesus!