Is the Republican Party suffering a complete moral collapse?

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 28, 2022

A couple of days ago, Donald Trump hosted anti-Semitic and racists Nick Fuentes and Kanye (Ye) West at dinner. Only a couple of Republicans have expressed any negative feelings about a exPOTUS doing such a thing.

In Arizona, today is the last day to certify that last election. Not all Arizona counties are willing to do this -- those who think Republicans should have won -- NO MATTER WHAT THE VOTERS THOUGHT.

Republicans are trying to make it harder for certain minorities (you know, the ones that don't consistently vote Repulican) to vote.

It's endless. It never stops. I can only think that the party that believes itself to be the religious heart of America has simply suffered a total moral collapse -- I suspect because morals are more expendable than power.

I await your vote, and your reasons.

PoetPhilosopher · Nov 28, 2022

Evangelicalhumanist said:
A couple of days ago, Donald Trump hosted anti-Semitic and racists Nick Fuentes and Kanye (Ye) West at dinner. Only a couple of Republicans have expressed any negative feelings about a exPOTUS doing such a thing.

In Arizona, today is the last day to certify that last election. Not all Arizona counties are willing to do this -- those who think Republicans should have won -- NO MATTER WHAT THE VOTERS THOUGHT.

Republicans are trying to make it harder for certain minorities (you know, the ones that don't consistently vote Repulican) to vote.

It's endless. It never stops. I can only think that the party that believes itself to be the religious heart of America has simply suffered a total moral collapse -- I suspect because morals are more expendable than power.

I await your vote, and your reasons.

I think Trumpism is starting to collapse beneath its own weight.

Revoltingest · Nov 28, 2022

No.
Trump's cult appears to be evaporating.

Kenny · Nov 28, 2022

No. Trump is not the Republican party.

Revoltingest · Nov 28, 2022

Kenny said:
No. Trump is not the Republican party.

I presume that the <yes> votes are by posters
who see different moral values as "moral collapse",
eg, anti-abortion.
This differs from viewing more widely agreed
immorality of some of Trump's acts, eg, revenge
against people he sees as political foes.

Kenny · Nov 28, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I presume that the <yes> votes are by posters
who see differing moral values as "moral collapse",
eg, anti-abortion.

That is an interesting point of view that may have great substance.

fantome profane · Nov 28, 2022

Snow White said:
I think Trumpism is starting to collapse beneath its own weight.

Revoltingest said:
No.
Trump's cult appears to be evaporating.

Yes, the the way it is collapsing, or the reason it is collapsing is all the more evidence of the moral collapse of the Republican Party.

Trump is losing support not because of anything he has said or done, but simply because he cannot win elections anymore. If the Republican Party had a moral centre they would have dumped Trump long ago.

Don't kid yourselves. It they thought they could still win with Trump, they would be lining up behind him and singing his praises.

Revoltingest · Nov 28, 2022

fantome profane said:
Yes, the the way it is collapsing, or the reason it is collapsing is all the more evidence of the moral collapse of the Republican Party.

Trump is losing support not because of anything he has said or done, but simply because he cannot win elections anymore. If the Republican Party had a moral centre they would have dumped Trump long ago.

Don't kid yourselves. It they thought they could still win with Trump, they would be lining up behind him and singing his praises.

If Trump gets support because they see him as
a winner, this could be moral due to the alternative,
ie, a Democrat, who'd be worse. This is similar to
Dem support for Bill Clinton, eg, feminists who
looked the other way when he abused women.

But consider why Trump is weaker, which could be
due to getting fed up with his immorality, eg, the
insurrection. This would contra-indicate moral
collapse.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 28, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I presume that the <yes> votes are by posters
who see different moral values as "moral collapse",
eg, anti-abortion.

Presume all you like, but I do not see anti-abortion views as "moral collapse." I might think it is misguided, by my lights, because it (usually) considers one thing and one thing only -- the life of an "unborn child."

When I used the term "moral collapse," I meant (Christ-like as I am well known to be

) forgetting to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I ask you, how many Republicans would like a law that made it harder for them to vote? Would they think it fair? And when they do it to others, do they chalk this up under "treat thy neighbor as thyself?" How many Republicans, do you suppose, would like to be villified because of their coloration, their height, their religious beliefs, their desire to have control over their own lives? And if they then support an anti-semite, who thinks....

Oh, drop it. Never mind. This kind of thing can go on endlessly.

Revoltingest · Nov 28, 2022

Evangelicalhumanist said:
Presume all you like...

I have your permission?
Woohoo!

...but I do not see anti-abortion views as "moral collapse." I might think it is misguided, by my lights, because it (usually) considers one thing and one thing only -- the life of an "unborn child."

When I used the term "moral collapse," I meant (Christ-like as I am well known to be ) forgetting to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I ask you, how many Republicans would like a law that made it harder for them to vote? Would they think it fair? And when they do it to others, do they chalk this up under "treat thy neighbor as thyself?" How many Republicans, do you suppose, would like to be villified because of their coloration, their height, their religious beliefs, their desire to have control over their own lives? And if they then support an anti-semite, who thinks....

Oh, drop it. Never mind. This kind of thing can go on endlessly.

I like that last sentence.

PoetPhilosopher · Nov 28, 2022

Evangelicalhumanist said:
I ask you, how many Republicans would like a law that made it harder for them to vote? Would they think it fair? And when they do it to others, do they chalk this up under "treat thy neighbor as thyself?" How many Republicans, do you suppose, would like to be villified because of their coloration, their height, their religious beliefs, their desire to have control over their own lives? And if they then support an anti-semite, who thinks....

I'm actually concerned that some Republicans, not all, would want that stuff.

Which means that instead of following the Golden Rule, it might be better to follow the Platinum Rule - that is, not to treat others as you want to be treated, but as they want to be treated - in such a case.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 28, 2022

Snow White said:
I'm actually concerned that some Republicans, not all, would want that stuff.

Which means that instead of following the Golden Rule, it might be better to follow the Platinum Rule - that is, not to treat others as you want to be treated, but as they want to be treated - in such a case.

The problem with what you call the "Platinum Rule" is that you can't actually know how others would like to be treated. Many don't know how to express that, and some are afraid to.

The only think you really know about is yourself (even, I'm afraid, when you don't entirely).

Quintessence · Nov 28, 2022

An amoralist doesn't look at things this way - there's no possible collapse if one does not make the assumption that some particular set of values is "moral" and some other set is "immoral."

Is that party against basically everything I value, and has that gotten worse not better over time?

Yes.

Father Heathen · Nov 28, 2022

Kenny said:
No. Trump is not the Republican party.

So when are they going to pry their tongues from the tread of his boots?

sun rise · Nov 28, 2022

I've lived long enough to see many Presidents from Eisenhower to Biden. To me Trump is a symptom. We had Nixon (Watergate), Ford (OK), Bush Sr. (ok from a standard politician) etc.

We've had gaslighting for a long time from "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", Obama birth certificate, to absolute refusal to work with democrats (compromise), COVID lunacy, tolerating hate groups (refusing to utterly condemn) and so forth.

So to me Trump is a symptom (instantiation) of a long term decay process. There are a diminishing few, Liz Cheney and others, who I disagree with almost totally from a policy statement but who have honor.

Subduction Zone · Nov 28, 2022

I am going to say No. If you asked if they have had a complete moral collapse I would have said yes, but they appear to be on a slow road to recovery.

Not that they are likely to ever be completely moral, but that is a bit too much to ask for of any party.

sun rise · Nov 28, 2022

And, oh yes, this utter lunacy

Republicans in one Arizona county refuse to certify election results

We Never Know · Nov 28, 2022

They swallowed a poison pill called Trump. But they are on the mend a little now.

Subduction Zone · Nov 28, 2022

Kenny said:
That's what the people who have deranged Trump syndrome need to do.

Oh please. This is what a Trump apologist would say. The man was a threat to democracy while in office. He has not gone away. If Trump had acted presidential and let his record (not a very good one) speak for itself no one would be mentioning him. He is not a problem that can be safely ignored yet.

Jayhawker Soule · Nov 28, 2022

Evangelicalhumanist said:
I can only think that the party that believes itself to be the religious heart of America has simply suffered a total moral collapse -- ...

So what and where was this Republican moral edifice that has suffered a recent collapse?

Is the Republican Party suffering a complete moral collapse?

Is the Republican Party suffering a complete moral collapse?

Yes

No

I don't know

They never had a moral center

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