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Revelation from the Creator

F1fan

Veteran Member
God is omnipresent, as is wisdom. This is revealed by the appearance of wisdom in so many places. If some wisdom is available to seekers then so is all of it.
Odd that we don't see Bible believers act with more wisdom than atheists.


Pleasure seekers want to reduce the meaning of Christ's resurrection to pleasure for themselves and their relatives in something like a heathen afterlife.
You don't think your religious beliefs and rituals bring believers pleasure? Brain scans of believers show their reward centers light up when they think about their beliefs.


This desire seems to be a blindness that bends scripture in minds.
Could this blindness be why Christians tortured and executed about 30,000 people for witchcraft in the 17th century? That was protestants, so perhaps Catholics had it right all along?

The sword in Jesus mouth is not a physical sword, just as the resurrection is not pleasure. I conclude that the books of the bible cannot possibly be a direct communication to pleasure seekers and will either bind them into daydreams or possibly to turn them away. I also conclude that while wisdom is available to all, it is not easy to accept for all.

Some passages illustrating the moral nature of Christian resurrection, that the reason it is eternal is that is not like the heathen afterlife at all. In other words it is undesirable unless what you seek is the joy of benefiting those that come behind you. Honestly. That's good exegesis.

[Mat 22:30 NIV] 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
[Rom 14:17 NIV] 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
[2Co 2:15-16 NIV] 15 For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other, an aroma that brings life. And who is equal to such a task?
[Eph 2:16 NIV] 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
[2Co 4:10-12 NIV] 10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
[2Co 4:10-12, 18 NIV] 10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you. ... 18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
Why would you believe the resurrection was a real event? Do you understand how absurd the whole scenario is, with God creating a child only to use it as a sacrifice to Himself to pay for sins of humans that were a result of the world He created? You don;t think this story about Jesus was just copied from Egyptian myths?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The 5 percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling.'[18]
Also because Hebrew contained no vowels or punctuations.

BTW, when editing a new RSV, they had to "stop the press!" when the DSS were found, and they did find some minor errors that had crept into our versions.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
What do you believe about the Bible?”
I think the Bible is useless as a source of truth and nearly useless as a guide to understand what Christians believe and why they believe it.

Today, I see the Bible's main importance as the English-speaking world's #3 source of idioms that people forget the source of (after Shakespeare and Robert Burns).

Do you understand it to be God’s direct communication to humanity? Do you think that the Bible is totally of Him and from Him?
Ha! No, none of those things.

Do you understand that without His divine revelation about Himself and His created beings, finite and fallen humanity is left with only opinions, guesses, and speculations about who God is, Jesus Christ and the gospel which offers salvation, freedom, hope, and eternal life?
That's all true even with the Bible, IMO.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I believe the author of Revelations believe it was a direct revelation from God but it might just have been a very vivid dream with no connection from any God.
From the type of images the author of Revelation depicts, scientists have concluded that the most likely cause of the hallucinations is ergot poisoning.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Typical of people who read and even memorize it, they 'know' the Bible, while knowing nothing of its composition.

You saying it's me, or someone else
whp doesn't know it's "composition',
whatever you might mean by " compositi8n"?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Odd that we don't see Bible believers act with more wisdom than atheists.
...

Well, you always do that from time to time.
Here is how that works. There are in the real world only two kinds of humans, theists and atheists and that is all they are. For the rest of us, where we do that differently as to worldviews, we are not even in the real world and as such I didn't even write this.
In fact you are nothing more than just an atheist and that is all you do. All your waking hours you do nothing but saying I am an atheist. ;) :D

So news flash. The world is more that just theists and atheists and you don't have the corner on wisdom, just because you are an atheist. And I don't have that either just because I don't fit into your worldview.

And remember the rest of us for the forum are not relevant for all cultures, worldviews, different religions or even different understandings of religion.
You are so wise, because you are the only thing that matters, as you are an atheist. ;) :D

This is getting old. Learn to be skeptical of your own worldview, before you demand that of others, while claiming wisdom.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
What do you believe about the Bible?”

Do you understand it to be God’s direct communication to humanity? Do you think that the Bible is totally of Him and from Him? Do you understand that without His divine revelation about Himself and His created beings, finite and fallen humanity is left with only opinions, guesses, and speculations about who God is, Jesus Christ and the gospel which offers salvation, freedom, hope, and eternal life?
I believe that the standard Bible to be 66 books of varying accuracy, material compiled and organized by holy men, some more holy than others, over a period of roughly 3000 years. I believe that the Old Testament reflects a concept of God, which improved over time, in the minds of the men who wrote the scriptures. Its their interpretation of ancient events, events which would later be vastly exaggerated by still other holy men in Babylon who rewrote that history.

The NT books are better, more reliable but still not perfect. The NT is Jesus as people remembered him and colored by Paul's new compromised Gospel of atonement.

The Book of Revelation should have never been added to the cannon! IMOP
 
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pearl

Well-Known Member
whatever you might mean by " compositi8n"?

The many literary devices that the biblical authors used in transmitting faith.
Literary devices are used throughout all of the genres of Scripture. You will find similes, metaphors, repetition, symbolism, and personification throughout the Bible. While they are most prevalent in the poetic and prophetic books, the historical writers, Gospel writers, and Epistle writers used all of these devices as well.

The Bible, as a unity in diversity, expresses its unique message in a rich variety of literary forms. The literature of the Bible is an aesthetically beautiful interpretation of human experience from a divine perspective. As we read, interpret, and seek to apply the truths of Scripture, we must be careful not to overlook this artistic dimension, or we will miss an important part of enjoying the Bible. In this section, we will take a brief look at the literary forms found in the pages of Scripture, including figurative language, narrative history, poetry, wisdom literature, prophetic literature, gospel, oratory, and epistle.
IV. Literary Forms in the Bible | Bible.org

Example #1: Romeo and Juliet (By William Shakespeare)
Myth - Examples and Definition of Myth (literarydevices.net)
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
What do you believe about the Bible?”

Do you understand it to be God’s direct communication to humanity? Do you think that the Bible is totally of Him and from Him? Do you understand that without His divine revelation about Himself and His created beings, finite and fallen humanity is left with only opinions, guesses, and speculations about who God is, Jesus Christ and the gospel which offers salvation, freedom, hope, and eternal life?
The Bible was written by humans, over a period nearing one thousand, five hundred years -- in my opinion, and in the opinion of almost every biblical scholar. This much is discoverable and generally verifiable.

In the opinion of some, the Bible was directly inspired by God. That is not the opinion of many -- especially those who would then have to understand that God makes mistakes, sometimes quite trivial, sometimes not so much. And as a consequence, many do not believe it was directly inspired by God -- any more than any other presumed "holy scripture" of the many religions in the world.

As a result, a lot of people, myself most definitely included accept quite readily that we are (as you put it) "left with only opinions, guesses, and speculations about who God is..."
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Which Bible should we read? Should we read the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon; the Greek Orthodox Bible, with a 79-book canon; or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon? If we choose a Protestant Bible, then we will need to decide which version is more accurate. Is it the King James Version or one of the many other English versions of the Bible? Or perhaps we should read the Bible in its original languages of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to ensure the authenticity? I searched online to find out how many English versions of the Bible are currently in print, and the results ranged from 50 to more than 60 (see the search results here).
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Well, you always do that from time to time.
Here is how that works. There are in the real world only two kinds of humans, theists and atheists and that is all they are. For the rest of us, where we do that differently as to worldviews, we are not even in the real world and as such I didn't even write this.
In fact you are nothing more than just an atheist and that is all you do. All your waking hours you do nothing but saying I am an atheist. ;) :D
It never comes to mind unless in debate. I am in the category “atheist” and there is no meaning or identity related to it.

So news flash. The world is more that just theists and atheists and you don't have the corner on wisdom, just because you are an atheist.
Good thing I didn’t claim any such thing.

i only pointed out how religion does not result in better moral outcomes. And we actually see the opposite. Look how the Baha’i folks accept prejudice against gays just because their messenger says so.

And I don't have that either just because I don't fit into your worldview.
Good thing I didn’t claim any such thing.

And remember the rest of us for the forum are not relevant for all cultures, worldviews, different religions or even different understandings of religion.
Yet we do observe some behavioral patterns.

You are so wise, because you are the only thing that matters, as you are an atheist. ;) :D
It’s unlike you to have such emotional reactions.

This is getting old. Learn to be skeptical of your own worldview, before you demand that of others, while claiming wisdom.
What I said was that we don’t see theists have any more wisdom than atheists. You didn’t respond to this but went off on irrelevant tangents.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...

i only pointed out how religion does not result in better moral outcomes. And we actually see the opposite. Look how the Baha’i folks accept prejudice against gays just because their messenger says so.
...

Wow. You made a claim, that requires evidence, But science can't do that, as per here:
Science has limits: A few things that science does not do - Understanding Science

So if not science, what is your evidence? You made a positive claim and thus you have the burden of proof.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Also because Hebrew contained no vowels or punctuations.

BTW, when editing a new RSV, they had to "stop the press!" when the DSS were found, and they did find some minor errors that had crept into our versions.
True (on the first part)

And - because it is corrected - we can rest in what we read :)
 

Audie

Veteran Member
The many literary devices that the biblical authors used in transmitting faith.
Literary devices are used throughout all of the genres of Scripture. You will find similes, metaphors, repetition, symbolism, and personification throughout the Bible. While they are most prevalent in the poetic and prophetic books, the historical writers, Gospel writers, and Epistle writers used all of these devices as well.

The Bible, as a unity in diversity, expresses its unique message in a rich variety of literary forms. The literature of the Bible is an aesthetically beautiful interpretation of human experience from a divine perspective. As we read, interpret, and seek to apply the truths of Scripture, we must be careful not to overlook this artistic dimension, or we will miss an important part of enjoying the Bible. In this section, we will take a brief look at the literary forms found in the pages of Scripture, including figurative language, narrative history, poetry, wisdom literature, prophetic literature, gospel, oratory, and epistle.
IV. Literary Forms in the Bible | Bible.org

Example #1: Romeo and Juliet (By William Shakespeare)
Myth - Examples and Definition of Myth (literarydevices.net)
My mom was a professor of English lit,
PhD from Edunburgh.

She didn't spare me the lessons , so among
other things I was bilingual,from day one.
And knowing a metaphor from a syllogism.

By way of saying, you can spare me.

As literature, the bible is all of what I said, and less.

Those who wish to discover what they fancy as Divine find same in the Book of Mormon
an even more dreary book, from a literature pov.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Odd that we don't see Bible believers act with more wisdom than atheists.
I've seen both kinds in both of those groups in direct life, not counting forums. Its the healthiest and most intelligent specimens that should concern us. What are they doing?

You don't think your religious beliefs and rituals bring believers pleasure? Brain scans of believers show their reward centers light up when they think about their beliefs.
I'm talking about the simple desire to see your loved ones and to not die. Its a very natural desire. Its not a spiritual desire -- not in the NT far as I can tell.

Could this blindness be why Christians tortured and executed about 30,000 people for witchcraft in the 17th century? That was protestants, so perhaps Catholics had it right all along?
I don't want to make that leap.

Why would you believe the resurrection was a real event? Do you understand how absurd the whole scenario is, with God creating a child only to use it as a sacrifice to Himself to pay for sins of humans that were a result of the world He created? You don;t think this story about Jesus was just copied from Egyptian myths?
It could be for various reasons. Borrowing and altering is often a good way to convey a new idea like Dalí's melted clocks or the comic Watchmen with its shady superheroes. Absurdity is charm and draws the eye. We're talking about something written so long ago that the languages could have been lost by now and nearly were. Also the original Egyptian myths were forgotten for a long time. Many were only found again in the 20th century.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
What do you believe about the Bible?”

Do you understand it to be God’s direct communication to humanity? Do you think that the Bible is totally of Him and from Him? Do you understand that without His divine revelation about Himself and His created beings, finite and fallen humanity is left with only opinions, guesses, and speculations about who God is, Jesus Christ and the gospel which offers salvation, freedom, hope, and eternal life?
Yes. That pretty well covers it.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
And - because it is corrected - we can rest in what we read :)
I prefer to look at the general teachings and use that which might make sense and possibly be helpful. To go along with this approach, as you well know I do believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, not to be an encyclopedia to give us all the answers but to at least give us a basic sense direction to go in.

Take care, my friend.
 
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