Jesus and Krishna--Two Peas In A Pod

PruePhillip said:

LOWLY

Rejoice greatly, O daughter Zion!
Shout aloud, O daughter Jerusalem!
Lo, your king comes to you;
triumphant and victorious is he,
humble and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

PIERCED

And I will pour out on the house of David
and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of
grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when
they look on me, on him whom they have
pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one
mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly
over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

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This is a hard sell, IMHO because nowhere in these verses is messiah mentioned. It was matthew who did the "Thus was fulfilled the prophet, "Rejoice...." because he thought this verse was referring to Jesus but

"B. R. Isaac of Troki, Faith Strengthened, views entire passage as eschatological -during Israel‟s regathering the land will be enlarged, Philistines converted, no need for weapons, for Messiah has been "saved" from Gog and Magog: None of these things took place when Jesus came; therefore, he is not Messiah."

There's lots of controversy surrounding these kinds of passages.

SeekingAllTruth said:

This is a hard sell, IMHO because nowhere in these verses is messiah mentioned. It was matthew who did the "Thus was fulfilled the prophet, "Rejoice...." because he thought this verse was referring to Jesus but

"B. R. Isaac of Troki, Faith Strengthened, views entire passage as eschatological -during Israel‟s regathering the land will be enlarged, Philistines converted, no need for weapons, for Messiah has been "saved" from Gog and Magog: None of these things took place when Jesus came; therefore, he is not Messiah."

There's lots of controversy surrounding these kinds of passages.

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Not sure 'nowhere... is messiah mentioned' means to you because to me the Messiah
IS referred to. Could Israel mourn to see a former, lowlier Jewish nation, riding on
donkeys, come to redeem them and conquer the world?
Just doesn't make sense to me.

SeekingAllTruth said:

According to what I've read, both were human. But Krishna was supposed to be the 8th reincarnation of Vishnu.

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So how could Krishna and Jesus be even remotely of the same nature since Jesus did not have a human father?

SeekingAllTruth said:

Nobody finds it strange that the Jesus' parents fleeing to Egypt to prevent Jesus from being killed by King Herod is exactly the same as Krishna's parents fleeing to another land to prevent Krishna from being killed by King Kamsa?

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What if Krishna is Moses

• Krishna killed Kamsa. (Moses killed Mitsrite)

• Kamsa commanded Demoness Putna to slaughter the male children of the Yadavas, just as Pharaoh commanded the midwives to slaughter the male children of the Hebrews.

• The Basket on the River: Moses' mother placed the infant Moses in a basket and placed it into the River to hide him from danger and risk of being killed. This is similar to Vasudeva putting newborn Krishna in a basket and carrying him over the Yamuna River to save him from death.

SeekingAllTruth said:

See how many of the above fit Jesus.

Rank–Raglan mythotype - Wikipedia

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I made a three-way comparison.

JESUS-KRISHNA 10 SIMILAR, 12 DIFFERENT

MOSES-KRISHNA: 18 SIMILAR, 4 DIFFERENT.

1 Mother is a royal virgin

JESUS: YES. NOT ROYAL.

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO. DEVAKI CONCEIVED IN NORMAL WAY.

2 Father is a king

JESUS: NO

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO. VASUDEV FROM ROYAL FAMILY BUT NOT A KING.

3 Father often a near relative to mother

JESUS: NO INFO

MOSES: NO INFO

KRISHNA: ONLY 6TH COUSIN. TOO FAR.

4 Unusual conception

JESUS: YES

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO

5 Hero reputed to be son of god

JESUS: YES

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO. KRISHNA SAYS HE WAS PHYSICAL SON OF VASUDEV. HE WAS GLORIFIED AS GOD ITSELF MUCH LATER.

6 Attempt to kill hero as an infant, often by father or maternal grandfather

JESUS: NO

MOSES: YES

KRISHNA: YES.

7 Hero spirited away as a child

JESUS: NO

MOSES: YES

KRISHNA: YES.

8 Reared by foster parents in a far country

JESUS: NO

MOSES: YES

KRISHNA: YES

9 No details of childhood

JESUS: YES

MOSES: NO. KNOWN TO LIVE IN PHARAOH’S HOUSEHOLD.

KRISHNA: NO. MAY DETAILS OF HIS FRIENDS, PLACES AND ATTEMPTS TO KILL HIM.

10 Returns or goes to future kingdom

JESUS: YES

MOSES: YES

KRISHNA: YES

11 Is victor over king, giant, dragon or wild beast

JESUS: NO INFO

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: YES. KILLS KALIA SERPENT.

12 Marries a princess (often daughter of predecessor)

JESUS: NO

MOSES: YES. JETHRO WAS A KING PRIEST.

KRISHNA: YES

13 Becomes king

JESUS: NO

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO. HE WAS NEVER A KING

14 For a time he reigns uneventfully

JESUS: NO

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO. NEVER REIGNED.

15 He prescribes laws

JESUS: NO. SERMONS.

MOSES: YES

KRISHNA: NO . ONLY SERMONS.

16 Later loses favor with gods or his subjects

JESUS: NO

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO.

17 Driven from throne and city

JESUS: NO

MOSES: YES

KRISHNA: YES. LEFT FOR UNKNOWN COUNTRY DUE TO NATURAL CALAMITY.

18 Meets with mysterious death

JESUS: YES

MOSES: NO. DIED AT MOUNT HOR.

KRISHNA: NO. KNOWN TO HAVE DIED BY AN ARROW OF A HUNTER.

19 Often at the top of a hill

JESUS: YES (I THINK)

MOSES: YES, MOUNT HOR.

KRISHNA: NO.

20 His children, if any, do not succeed him

JESUS: YES

MOSES: YES

KRISHNA: YES.

21 His body is not buried

JESUS: YES

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO. HE WAS BURIED.

22 Has one or more holy sepulchers or tombs

JESUS: NO.

MOSES: NO

KRISHNA: NO. ONLY ONE PLACE IN GUJARAT CLAIMS THIS.

SUMMARY.

Brickjectivity said:

Going back to first century it likely would have seemed to learned people living at the time that the book was borrowing stories from around the world, yes.

In Europe it was not clear to unlearned people at the time that the book was translated into English, sometime after 12th century CE. Unlearned people in Europe treated the stories as completely original. The stories of Krishna would not have been well known, except to the learned of Europe if that.

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@Brickjectivity @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

How did Europe become so developed and so well known after people left the Indus Valley, a civilization in ancient India, and Europe returned mentally to India because people learned about Krishna? What is this cycle?

With such similar man-gods through history, just pick the one you resonate with most.

Sand Dancer said:

With such similar man-gods through history, just pick the one you reasonate with most.

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@Sand Dancer awesome idea let people pick the one they resonate with most, I like that idea., as long as everyone is included

oh can you tell me more about Buddhist as you say your religion is Buddhist, how do Buddhist understand Krishna and how do you see Krishna through your Buddhist view, your opinions.

River Sea said:

@Sand Dancer awesome idea let people pick the one they resonate with most, I like that idea., as long as everyone is included

oh can you tell me more about Buddhist as you say your religion is Buddhist, how do Buddhist understand Krishna and how do you see Krishna through your Buddhist view, your opinions.

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I knew I spelled it wrong...

I am a philosophical Buddhist, not that it matters I guess, but I don't think it has problems with other gods. What is important is what we do on earth, not who we worship. To me, I like Krishna as a God of love and loyalty.

Bharat Jhunjhunwala said:

6 Attempt to kill hero as an infant, often by father or maternal grandfather

JESUS: NO

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In the gospels a local politician attempts to have the baby killed. The politician is King Herod. He is not a direct relative but is a countryman.

Bharat Jhunjhunwala said:

11 Is victor over king, giant, dragon or wild beast

JESUS: NO INFO

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Yes, however this happens mystically. It is an ongoing thing. I can understand why you choose 'No info', and there could be other points of view of this.

Bharat Jhunjhunwala said:

12 Marries a princess (often daughter of predecessor)

JESUS: NO

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You may find this relevant: the Church is called the bride of Christ.

Bharat Jhunjhunwala said:

13 Becomes king

JESUS: NO

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In Christianity he is mystically considered to be the king, although his dominion is not seen until the far future.

Bharat Jhunjhunwala said:

21 His body is not buried

JESUS: YES

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In the gospels his body is wrapped and placed into a tomb.

River Sea said:

...

How did Europe become so developed and so well known after people left the Indus Valley, a civilization in ancient India, and Europe returned mentally to India because people learned about Krishna? What is this cycle?

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Languages might shape people.

Ignorance can create a cycle of more ignorance, but when things get very bad people reject ignorance. Even cruel ones eventually want to see an end to ignorance, but ignorance comes back very easily. Much knowledge is easily lost and needs to be learned again or worse: rediscovered. For national ignorance the cause can be a year of death, a decade of neglect, a lazy king, a plague...just about anything; and suddenly a nation is facing ignorance again and doubt.

Europe wanted goods from India, such as spices for food. Britain went militarily to India to colonize and profit from that country. I hope that is not a cycle! Many English European countries also sent missionaries to India. As a result India began to influence Britain and other English speaking countries such as USA. Now we even have Hindu temples here in the USA. Why and how? I do not know. All of this happened without any action on my part.

SeekingAllTruth said:

Thank God the Internet is exposing the fraudulent doings of the church hierarchy, laying bare for all to see exactly how the Jesus mythology was stolen from a variety of sources to make the Jesus legend more palpable to pagans. Pagans had no idea when they accepted Jesus that they were in actuality accepting the myths of a half-dozen dying/rising god before him. Many must have recognized the similarities instantly.

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There is a saying in journalism: verification before dissemination.

Don't believe everything on the internet.

Brickjectivity said:

In the gospels a local politician attempts to have the baby killed. The politician is King Herod.

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Pl give verse. Your other three points are interpretative. The original list appears to be of physical events.

Brickjectivity said:

All of this happened without any action on my part.

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Yes. However, the theological base of those events may persist even today.

Bharat Jhunjhunwala said:

Pl give verse. Your other three points are interpretative. The original list appears to be of physical events.

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Matthew chapter 2.
[Mat 2:13 NIV] 13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. "Get up," he said, "take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him."

SeekingAllTruth said:

The similarities between Krishna's life and Jesus' life are so startling that it's often difficult to tell where one begins and the other leaves off. That's why it's important to remember that the Krishna legend was around a full 1000 years before the gospels emerged. The only conclusion a rational person can reach given the often exact same matching details of each is that the gospel writers borrowed heavily from the Krishna legend and other dying/rising gods as they constructed their own legend of Jesus. Here is but a few in a laundry list of similarities

Yeshua and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God.

Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity.

Both had adoptive human fathers who were carpenters.

Jesus was conceived by a god. Krishna was the reincarnation of a god.

Both were killed by piercing--Jesus by nails and a spear, Krishna by an arrow

Both resurrected.

This list is not exhaustive. It would take up too much space to list Jesus' similarities with all the dying/rising gods before him--Zalmoxis, Dionysus, Horus, Mithra, Romulus--who inspired the gospel writers to copy them.

Instead I want to mention a few details of Krishna's birth that convince me Jesus is an amalgamation of many other earlier stories.

Kamsa, the evil king ruling the land hears a voice from the sky predicting that a child will be born and will kill him. The king is terrified. He orders all the children born to his sister, who is the one who will give birth to the child, to be killed. But with the help of an angel the parents of the future child escape and flee to a faraway land. There they give the baby Krishna to a carpenter and his wife to raise.

Anyone who cannot see the parallels between this and the Jesus legend involving the prophecy of Jesus, Herod and the flight to Egypt for safety has to have blinders one. It's too exact to be coincidental. One can only conclude Matthew borrowed Krishna's story as a model for his own account.

It becomes clear that the Jesus story is just another legend based on many earlier legends that were floating around the area at that time.

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I believe that is far from clarity. Jesus is real and His story is true.

Brickjectivity said:

Going back to first century it likely would have seemed to learned people living at the time that the book was borrowing stories from around the world, yes.

In Europe it was not clear to unlearned people at the time that the book was translated into English, sometime after 12th century CE. Unlearned people in Europe treated the stories as completely original. The stories of Krishna would not have been well known, except to the learned of Europe if that.

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I believe we would have to believe a lot more travel and ability to communicate in different languages than history records.

Riders said:

It is true and I agree. However Hare Krishna mostly chant and meditate, perhaps I am wrong they may pray but mostly they chant, they did when I was at their service,it was chanting the Hare Krishna chant.

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I believe they might as well pick up a rock and chant to it.

Sand Dancer said:

What is important is what we do on earth

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Have you heard anything about slightly rotating it in another area 'till it's functional, then no one needs to give up anything, as it can be used in another area? Then that can be included in the important what we do on earth., what do you think?

This is extremely intriguing to me: when someone is doing something dysfunctional, they turn it a little bit in another area, and suddenly it is no longer dysfunctional and is useful.

So, when you were writing about what is important about what we do on Earth, I was wondering what your thoughts about rotating it in another area until it's functional.

I wonder if that ever happened with Krishna, how many times what he was doing, did he rotate in another area, until it was functional, and if so, what things did he rotate?

River Sea said:

Have you heard anything about slightly rotating it in another area 'till it's functional, then no one needs to give up anything, as it can be used in another area? Then that can be included in the important what we do on earth., what do you think?

This is extremely intriguing to me: when someone is doing something dysfunctional, they turn it a little bit in another area, and suddenly it is no longer dysfunctional and is useful.

So, when you were writing about what is important about what we do on Earth, I was wondering what your thoughts about rotating it in another area until it's functional.

I wonder if that ever happened with Krishna, how many times what he was doing, did he rotate in another area, until it was functional, and if so, what things did he rotate?

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Not sure what you mean.