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The Power of a Message of Peace is Unfolding.

Is Peace now possible


  • Total voters
    15

joelr

Well-Known Member
We have absolutly nothing to share with such comments.


Well if suppressing rational and logical ideas is your thing then yeah. Not uncommon with religions to want to suppress thoughts from people. I am sharing ideas about critical thinking. If you disagree rather than run and hide or hint at suppression explain the evidence for such things.




Spirit is life, spirit the light that guides us.

The proof is in our use of it.

Regards Tony

Spirit is life. No, nothing about life involves a real literal soul or spirit. You can find this college textbook online -
Genetics: A Conceptual Approach, Ben Pierce 7th edition which covers most of the formation of life, I didn't see where they link life to a spirit?
Neither do I find that in neuroscience textbooks as well?
The process is understood to a very detailed level and spirit isn't needed. If we were a spirit the brain went through a lot of trouble to make an incredibly complex system from the quantum level and up.

Spirit is light. No again. Nothing in the EM spectrum is shown to be spirit or something that guides us. Our psychology and minds guide us. Ideas may inspire us but nothing there implies a literal spirit. That is fiction from before scientific knowledge when the body was thought to be animated by a literal spirit.

Using our minds and bodies is not proof of any spirit. Do our ancestors the early hominids have spirits? All mammals? All animals? All Eukaryotes? Self replicating chemicals? Amino acids, peptides that form nucleotides, does that have a spirit?
You are taking metaphors and attempting to make them literal. But there isn't evidence for any of that.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well if suppressing rational and logical ideas is your thing then yeah. Not uncommon with religions to want to suppress thoughts from people. I am sharing ideas about critical thinking. If you disagree rather than run and hide or hint at suppression explain the evidence for such things.

Critical thinking requires to be intune with our inner spirit, which in the end, will be the only way we will find peace.

This is a statement by the Universal House of Justice.

"…the abolition of war is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace…. For, in essence, peace stems from an inner state supported by a spiritual or moral attitude, and it is chiefly in evoking this attitude that the possibility of enduring solutions can be found...." The Universal House of Justice, The Promise of World Peace.

That is supported by many great thinkers.

Nothing can bring you peace but yourself. – Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance, 1844.

Many people today agree that we need to reduce violence in our society. If we are truly serious about this, we must deal with the roots of violence, particularly those that exist within each of us. We need to embrace ‘inner disarmament,’ reducing our own emotions of suspicion, hatred and hostility toward our brothers and sisters. – The Dalai Lama XIV, 2009.

The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells Wakan-Tanka, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us. This is the real peace, and the others are but reflections of this. The second peace is that which is made between two individuals, and the third is that which is made between two nations. But above all you should understand that there can never be peace between nations until there is known that true peace, which, as I have often said, is within the souls of men. – Black Elk, Oglala Sioux spiritual leader, 1953.

There is a certain kind of peace that is not merely the absence of war. It is larger than that. The peace I am thinking of is not at the mercy of history’s rule, nor is it a passive surrender to the status quo. The peace I am thinking of is the dance of an open mind when it engages another equally open one. – Toni Morrison, 1995.

It isn’t enough to talk about peace. One must believe in it. And it isn’t enough to believe in it. One must work at it. – Eleanor Roosevelt, 1951.

Peace first happens within each of our own selves, or it will never happens of a larger scale.

So what Abdul'baha said, is very correct, because the cause of God is that of self-realisation and inner oneness with all creation.

"The cause of peace is a very great cause; it is the cause of God, and all the forces of the world are opposed to it. Governments for instance, consider militarism as the step to human progress, that division among men and nations is the cause of patriotism and honor, that if one nation attack and conquer another, gaining wealth, territory and glory thereby, this warfare and conquest, this bloodshed and cruelty are the cause of that victorious nation’s advancement and prosperity. This is an utter mistake." – Abdu’l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 100

Regards Tony
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I see people get to decide all this for their own selves.

In the end, if one has the desire to become a global citizen, there is already a unity in diversity aim, as otherwise they would not consider the oneness of humanity in the first place.

So any perceived conflict of faith is much more ealsy resolved.

Regards Tony

Here the Quran says:

Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you.

So you start with division and hope it gets better?,how many people have died trying to “know one another”?,knowing one another doesn’t mean it’s all sun and daises,Russia and Ukraine know that atm and……,oh well.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Here the Quran says:

Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you.

So you start with division and hope it gets better?,how many people have died trying to “know one another”?,knowing one another doesn’t mean it’s all sun and daises,Russia and Ukraine know that atm and……,oh well.

I see that passage is telling us how we are united and that a bounty of diversity is included in that oneness.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Any Baha'i Male in the world can be elected to the Universal House of Justice.

Given the guidance on who to vote for, it is most likely those that were elected are known for their virtues and morals and dedication to service and their qualifications,by many Baha'i all around the world. If a person has served in the ITC, it is more likely they have travelled widely and become known.

Regards Tony
Yes, they are the best known. So, who else has a chance to be noticed and get enough votes? The best way is to get appointed to the ITC.

(Hooper) Dunbar was born in Los Angeles, California, United States. He worked as an actor on stage and screen, making films with Columbia, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Twentieth Century-Fox studios, and was a member of the Screen Actors' Guild of America. In 1958, he left Hollywood to take up residence in Central and South America, where he taught arts and English as a second language, and set up a graphic design business. However, his primary interest during those years was volunteer work as a teacher and lecturer for the Bahá’í Faith.

Dunbar was a member of the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá’ís of Nicaragua from its inception in 1961 to 1963, when he represented that Assembly at the first International Convention in Haifa, Israel. Subsequently, he was appointed as an Auxiliary Board member for the Protection of the Faith in the Americas and served from 1963 to 1968, and then as a Counsellor for the Protection and Propagation of the Faith from 1968 to 1973, also for the Americas. He took up residence in Israel in 1973 when he was named as one of the founding members of the International Teaching Centre. Dunbar worked as a member of that institution for fifteen years, until he was elected to the Universal House of Justice in 1988. On January 6th, 2010 it was announced that he would retire
In the 70's, my Baha'i friends told me about Hooper. They said that he went to an Indian village with the intention of teaching the Faith to them. But it was how he got accepted by the villagers is what's important. This is what I was told... The chief passed a bowl of some animal's blood to Hooper, and he drank it. Whether the story was true or not, I don't know, but at the time I believed the Baha'is were honest and would not be telling me things that weren't true. So, anyway, by Hooper doing this he was accepted by the Chief and allowed to teach them about the Baha'i Faith. I forget, but maybe the whole village became Baha'is. But I'm not sure.

But since then, he did everything that was needed to move up the ranks. So, even though Baha'is don't allow electioneering, in a way, the candidates are well known. And probably they are well deserving. But it's not like just anybody is going to become that well known to get elected or appointed to anything in the Baha'i Faith. The only negative I'm concerned about is that it is conservative, and possibly authoritarian, people making it up through the ranks. Oh, and here's another UHJ member's story....
(Stephen) lived in Minnesota in the United States where he practiced as a psychotherapist. He also worked as an organizational consultant and lectured at the Metropolitan State University in St. Paul in his professional career.[1]

In 1976 Birkland was appointed as an Auxiliary Board member and served in the role until 1993 when he was appointed as a Continental Counselor on the Board for the Americas as a vacancy had been left by appointments to the International Teaching Center.[2][3] He was reappointed for a full five year term as Counselor in 1995,[4] and reappointed in 2000 and 2005.[5]

In 2008 Birkland was appointed to the International Teaching Center and moved to the Holy Land to serve on the body.[6] In 2010 he was elected to the Universal House of Justice in a by-election held due to Peter Khan and Hooper Dunbar retiring from the body.
But Birkland might be someone who is too authoritarian...
In the Winter 1997 issue of Gnosis magazine, an article was published titled, “Baha’i Leaders Vexed by On-Line Critics”, detailing the tyrannical acts of the Baha’i leaders of the time and their attack dog, Stephen Birkland.
He went after several well-known Baha'is for taking part in some group called Talisman...
Talisman's initial core group of participants with scholarly and literary backgrounds included Juan R. I. Cole, then-director of the Center for Middle Eastern and North African Studies at the University of Michigan and now professor of history there. Two participants were publishers: Anthony Lee of Kalimat Press, a Baha'i publishing house; and Steven Scholl of White Cloud Press, publisher of the annual "Common Era: Best New Writings in Religion" and other interfaith-oriented titles.

Beginning with a dozen or so subscribers, Talisman grew in the first year to more than a hundred, most of whom were not academians. After eighteen months of existence, Talisman became the focus of a series of investigations ordered by authorities at the Baha'i World Center in Haifa, Israel.

Liberal scholars on Talisman scrutinized several aspects of current Baha'i theology and administration, including the exclusion of women from the Baha'i governing body, the Universal House of Justice, even though Baha'i claims to teach the equality of the sexes. Academians familiar with source documents debated whether or not Baha'u'llah had intended this exclusion, and advanced textual arguments in favor of reconsideration.
The key-word here is "liberal scholars". Those in leadership positions in the Baha'i Faith had the power to shut down and get many of these people to resign from the Baha'i Faith or be labeled covenant-breakers. Birkland was the one that the UHJ sent after them. I know it doesn't bother you, but it bothers me. And is one reason why I doubt and question the Baha'i Faith.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I see that passage is telling us how we are united and that a bounty of diversity is included in that oneness.

Regards Tony
Some people aren't one with you, the Baha'is. How are you, the Baha'is, one with them? The Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews and people of the other religions that don't believe the Baha'is Faith is the fulfillment of their religions? And are you one with Atheists? I don't see how you are or are even trying to be. Baha'is argue for their truth, which makes them the one and only truth for today that can bring peace to the world. Atheism can't. None of the other religions can. It's only you, the Baha'is, that can do it. Right? Or am I incorrect again?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, they are the best known. So, who else has a chance to be noticed and get enough votes? The best way is to get appointed to the ITC.

(Hooper) Dunbar was born in Los Angeles, California, United States. He worked as an actor on stage and screen, making films with Columbia, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Twentieth Century-Fox studios, and was a member of the Screen Actors' Guild of America. In 1958, he left Hollywood to take up residence in Central and South America, where he taught arts and English as a second language, and set up a graphic design business. However, his primary interest during those years was volunteer work as a teacher and lecturer for the Bahá’í Faith.

Dunbar was a member of the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá’ís of Nicaragua from its inception in 1961 to 1963, when he represented that Assembly at the first International Convention in Haifa, Israel. Subsequently, he was appointed as an Auxiliary Board member for the Protection of the Faith in the Americas and served from 1963 to 1968, and then as a Counsellor for the Protection and Propagation of the Faith from 1968 to 1973, also for the Americas. He took up residence in Israel in 1973 when he was named as one of the founding members of the International Teaching Centre. Dunbar worked as a member of that institution for fifteen years, until he was elected to the Universal House of Justice in 1988. On January 6th, 2010 it was announced that he would retire
In the 70's, my Baha'i friends told me about Hooper. They said that he went to an Indian village with the intention of teaching the Faith to them. But it was how he got accepted by the villagers is what's important. This is what I was told... The chief passed a bowl of some animal's blood to Hooper, and he drank it. Whether the story was true or not, I don't know, but at the time I believed the Baha'is were honest and would not be telling me things that weren't true. So, anyway, by Hooper doing this he was accepted by the Chief and allowed to teach them about the Baha'i Faith. I forget, but maybe the whole village became Baha'is. But I'm not sure.

But since then, he did everything that was needed to move up the ranks. So, even though Baha'is don't allow electioneering, in a way, the candidates are well known. And probably they are well deserving. But it's not like just anybody is going to become that well known to get elected or appointed to anything in the Baha'i Faith. The only negative I'm concerned about is that it is conservative, and possibly authoritarian, people making it up through the ranks. Oh, and here's another UHJ member's story....
(Stephen) lived in Minnesota in the United States where he practiced as a psychotherapist. He also worked as an organizational consultant and lectured at the Metropolitan State University in St. Paul in his professional career.[1]

In 1976 Birkland was appointed as an Auxiliary Board member and served in the role until 1993 when he was appointed as a Continental Counselor on the Board for the Americas as a vacancy had been left by appointments to the International Teaching Center.[2][3] He was reappointed for a full five year term as Counselor in 1995,[4] and reappointed in 2000 and 2005.[5]

In 2008 Birkland was appointed to the International Teaching Center and moved to the Holy Land to serve on the body.[6] In 2010 he was elected to the Universal House of Justice in a by-election held due to Peter Khan and Hooper Dunbar retiring from the body.
But Birkland might be someone who is too authoritarian...
In the Winter 1997 issue of Gnosis magazine, an article was published titled, “Baha’i Leaders Vexed by On-Line Critics”, detailing the tyrannical acts of the Baha’i leaders of the time and their attack dog, Stephen Birkland.
He went after several well-known Baha'is for taking part in some group called Talisman...
Talisman's initial core group of participants with scholarly and literary backgrounds included Juan R. I. Cole, then-director of the Center for Middle Eastern and North African Studies at the University of Michigan and now professor of history there. Two participants were publishers: Anthony Lee of Kalimat Press, a Baha'i publishing house; and Steven Scholl of White Cloud Press, publisher of the annual "Common Era: Best New Writings in Religion" and other interfaith-oriented titles.

Beginning with a dozen or so subscribers, Talisman grew in the first year to more than a hundred, most of whom were not academians. After eighteen months of existence, Talisman became the focus of a series of investigations ordered by authorities at the Baha'i World Center in Haifa, Israel.

Liberal scholars on Talisman scrutinized several aspects of current Baha'i theology and administration, including the exclusion of women from the Baha'i governing body, the Universal House of Justice, even though Baha'i claims to teach the equality of the sexes. Academians familiar with source documents debated whether or not Baha'u'llah had intended this exclusion, and advanced textual arguments in favor of reconsideration.
The key-word here is "liberal scholars". Those in leadership positions in the Baha'i Faith had the power to shut down and get many of these people to resign from the Baha'i Faith or be labeled covenant-breakers. Birkland was the one that the UHJ sent after them. I know it doesn't bother you, but it bothers me. And is one reason why I doubt and question the Baha'i Faith.

If anyone sees mistakes have been made, then the only way to change it, is to be the embodiment of a true Baha'i and work for a better future.

There are passages on what is a true Baha'i, as there are also passages on what it is to be a follower of Christ.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Some people aren't one with you, the Baha'is. How are you, the Baha'is, one with them? The Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews and people of the other religions that don't believe the Baha'is Faith is the fulfillment of their religions? And are you one with Atheists? I don't see how you are or are even trying to be. Baha'is argue for their truth, which makes them the one and only truth for today that can bring peace to the world. Atheism can't. None of the other religions can. It's only you, the Baha'is, that can do it. Right? Or am I incorrect again?

It is a state of being CG, a chosen reality.

I am one with all humanity under One God, no one can take that reality from me.

That is what all those people, that have been martyrd for the Bab and Baha'u'llah gave their lives for. (And many in past Faiths) They had embraced the Oneness.

Regards Tony
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Knowing yourself.

I am given life in the presence of God...the living spirit of holy water. Alive as its life living is real within.

My body type human bio mainly water.

You teach the law that saved us as life was water flooding.

You look see water it's everywhere as it's own body mass.

You think.

You ask how did my body own hold water within. And not be water mass.

I have bones. I belong on the rock planet...my brother a satanist teaches I came from evil.

His intent his machine that he teaches replaced a humans life lying. His machine is his human God of science.

So I must convince him he's wrong.

Our holy father historically told him he was wrong. The story says he would not listen.

Today he will not listen.

Is your teaching.

We teach the eternal is the creator self.

As God is just a human only stated concept...where I came from. In memory only.

My natural American Indian father passed his hand outstretched through air says we came from just here. America the oldest science scene of humans in science crime historic. Pyramid.

Other side of the heavens. His hand passes through...just here.

We didn't come from above it's only clouds then space...out. From out came the body of suns mass.

We came from eternal type that always had existed.

It's spirit body vibrated changed held then trapped water within its spirit. Became human. We live human we die human.

The sun takes water away from us. It changed mind and body. We become changed humans. The sun god is evil.

Is the teaching...believe it or not brother who won't listen. We aren't your machine or your constant inventions used to war to kill us like the sun did.

Copier of the sun.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
"The cause of peace is a very great cause; it is the cause of God, and all the forces of the world are opposed to it. Governments for instance, consider militarism as the step to human progress, that division among men and nations is the cause of patriotism and honor, that if one nation attack and conquer another, gaining wealth, territory and glory thereby, this warfare and conquest, this bloodshed and cruelty are the cause of that victorious nation’s advancement and prosperity. This is an utter mistake." – Abdu’l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 100
Australia was a mistake then... How are the invaders going to fix the mistake they made?
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
First of all....Australia owns no national father. Unlike other nations.

Early land bridge migration from Africa to island people brought them to Australia. Proof they are still black genealogy.

Father said Australia had a massive sea coverage from ice melt. Drifted from poles. Reason why it had no land nation father.

Family enslaved family first in same DNA ownership. It isn't DNA status the abuser.

So not just aboriginal but English were abused in Australia by the English. Just for stealing food everyone's right by gods nature law given to all.

Like a lot of human living it became mutual status human life. We've evolved human rights which took a long time though.... as nowhere has the rich greedy human been obliterated.

It's why even my aboriginal friend says he's sick and tired of lazy give me everything aboriginal behaviour you owe me. All poor family are owed rationally.

He works like everyone else.... we're family you know.

And his wife cared for an abused aboriginal child. The history of parental abuse of child was in black or white life.

And the wrong was not to have given the care to an Aboriginal caring parent. As historic walkabout left children to fend for selves. If anyone wanted to tell the historic truth.

Native life dwindled only because living in civilisation control took over.

Not native families choice anywhere.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Critical thinking requires to be intune with our inner spirit, which in the end, will be the only way we will find peace.

Which do you imagine to be more important in critical thinking:
1)actual evidence
2) fantasy concepts that lack any evidence whatsoever

So please demonstrate some actual evidence for a spirit. Then demonstrate a situation where it was shown that being in tune with an inner spirit showed better results than just using ones mind.
Please show me the experiment that demonstrated that.
Can you show evidence of a time where peace was attained and a definitive link to an inner spirit can be shown. When the Japanese surrendered in WW2, did the American leaders claim they used inner spirit exclusively?

Critical thinking asks that you first demonstrate an inner spirit and a way to show it's not just the mind.
Otherwise you are just saying buzz words and hand waving.


This is a statement by the Universal House of Justice.

"…the abolition of war is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace…. For, in essence, peace stems from an inner state supported by a spiritual or moral attitude, and it is chiefly in evoking this attitude that the possibility of enduring solutions can be found...." The Universal House of Justice, The Promise of World Peace.

That is supported by many great thinkers.

Look closely - "inner state supported by a spiritual or moral attitude," those are states of the brain. An "attitude" is a construct of the physical brain.

Nothing can bring you peace but yourself. – Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance, 1844.

Same thing. Nothing here about a spirit. As if the human brain can't even think of peace or work out a peaceful solution? (it can)

Many people today agree that we need to reduce violence in our society. If we are truly serious about this, we must deal with the roots of violence, particularly those that exist within each of us. We need to embrace ‘inner disarmament,’ reducing our own emotions of suspicion, hatred and hostility toward our brothers and sisters. – The Dalai Lama XIV, 2009.

Right, reduce negative emotions? Which means find the positive emotions. Not "use your spirit" ?


The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells Wakan-Tanka, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us. This is the real peace, and the others are but reflections of this. The second peace is that which is made between two individuals, and the third is that which is made between two nations. But above all you should understand that there can never be peace between nations until there is known that true peace, which, as I have often said, is within the souls of men. – Black Elk, Oglala Sioux spiritual leader, 1953.
First that is an old myth - In 20th-century comparative mythology, the term axis mundi — also called the cosmic axis, world axis, world pillar, center of the world

Yes, Black Elk believes in souls. I didn't say mystics don't believe in spirits, I said there isn't actual evidence for a spirit and it's likely a metaphorical idea taken literal.



There is a certain kind of peace that is not merely the absence of war. It is larger than that. The peace I am thinking of is not at the mercy of history’s rule, nor is it a passive surrender to the status quo. The peace I am thinking of is the dance of an open mind when it engages another equally open one. – Toni Morrison, 1995.

Mind. It actually says "mind". As if the mind can't reach higher states and conceptualize peace without a ghost inside it?


It isn’t enough to talk about peace. One must believe in it. And it isn’t enough to believe in it. One must work at it. – Eleanor Roosevelt, 1951.

Peace first happens within each of our own selves, or it will never happens of a larger scale.
Belief and mind conceptualization. No spirits here?

So what Abdul'baha said, is very correct, because the cause of God is that of self-realisation and inner oneness with all creation..

Which he took from Buddhism and none of the poetic language in the quotes shows spirits are real. I already know religious people and mystics talk about spirits. The issue is it's probably not literally real.

"The cause of peace is a very great cause; it is the cause of God, and all the forces of the world are opposed to it. Governments for instance, consider militarism as the step to human progress, that division among men and nations is the cause of patriotism and honor, that if one nation attack and conquer another, gaining wealth, territory and glory thereby, this warfare and conquest, this bloodshed and cruelty are the cause of that victorious nation’s advancement and prosperity. This is an utter mistake." – Abdu’l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 100

Regards Tony
That is so generic I cannot imagine why you find this to be divinely inspired except in the most metaphorical sense ever.
But no not the Biblical God or Allah. Have you read those scripture? Governments consider militarism as the step.........what???????
Exodus 15:3:

Yahweh is a man of war;

Yahweh is his name.

Isaiah 42:13:

Yahweh goes forth like a mighty man;

like a man of war(s) he stirs up his fury.

Zephaniah 3:17: Yahweh, your God, is in your midst,

a warrior who gives victory.

Psalm 24:8:

Who is the King of Glory?

Yahweh, strong and mighty;

Yahweh, mighty in battle.

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Which do you imagine to be more important in critical thinking:
1)actual evidence
2) fantasy concepts that lack any evidence whatsoever
Yes, different religions have different spiritual things that their followers experience. Some Christians might see Mary, an angel, get filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues, maybe even see Jesus. A Baha'i? Some have visions of Abdul Baha'. Or maybe they're only going by their Scriptures, and because they believe them to be true, they accept them as evidence. And I do believe them when they say they "know" it is true.... to them. But to others? No, it is absolutely dependent on them believe it is true... as if that makes it true.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
When was the last time you received a message from God?,was it from God or via a human being?,my money is on the latter and from history not very reliable.
The "instructions" have been given by several people and by several religions. The Baha'is claim... Their prophet is the latest one and has brought an updated message from God. They say, the old instructions and messages don't necessarily apply anymore... just some of the spiritual truths.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
The "instructions" have been given by several people and by several religions. The Baha'is claim... Their prophet is the latest one and has brought an updated message from God. They say, the old instructions and messages don't necessarily apply anymore... just some of the spiritual truths.

And here is the root problem,prophets=humans,humans aren’t reliable concerning truths.
 
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