What’s the Difference Between Physical and Spiritual Happiness?

Trailblazer · Nov 24, 2022

The Sum of Awe said:
Why is that? A lot of people decide to not get married in this day and age, it's expensive and they see it as just a title. Do you believe that a partnership outside of marriage cannot be true love and commitment?

There could be true love and commitment, but I do not believe in sex outside of marriage because of the laws of my religion, but even before I became a Baha'i, when I had no religion or belief in God, I did not believe in sex outside of marriage. That is my personal belief and I do not expect anyone to agree with it or adhere to it. It is a high standard to live up to so most people won't, not in this day and age, although I believe that it will eventually be the universally accepted standard of behavior.

The Sum of Awe · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
There could be true love and commitment, but I do not believe in sex outside of marriage because of the laws of my religion, but even before I became a Baha'i, when I had no religion or belief in God, I did not believe in sex outside of marriage. That is my personal belief and I do not expect anyone to agree with it or adhere to it. It is a high standard to live up to so most people won't, not in this day and age, although I believe that it will eventually be the universally accepted standard of behavior.

That is fair, and to each their own. But with your gasoline analogy I took it that you were saying sex outside of marriage is always going to be bad 100% of the time.

Trailblazer · Nov 24, 2022

The Sum of Awe said:
That is fair, and to each their own. But with your gasoline analogy I took it that you were saying sex outside of marriage is always going to be bad 100% of the time.

Depending upon what you mean by bad, that is essentially what I believe. In other words, it is always safe to have sex in marriage, like gasoline is always safe if contained in the engine, but if gasoline is thrown on the ground it may or may not be safe. It could just wash away with the rain or it could ignite, if someone throws a lighted cigarette on it.

rational experiences · Nov 24, 2022

Being a human is the difference. As you look at humans saying you're different why aren't you happy? Which is spiritual as you show concern.

rational experiences · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
Depending upon what you mean by bad, that is essentially what I believe. In other words, it is always safe to have sex in marriage, like gasoline is always safe if contained in the engine, but if gasoline is thrown on the ground it may or may not be safe. It could just wash away with the rain or it could ignite, if someone throws a lighted cigarette on it.

Is it why you call yourself trail blazer as a man human for yourself terms?

The Sum of Awe · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
Depending upon what you mean by bad, that is essentially what I believe. In other words, it is always safe to have sex in marriage, like gasoline is always safe if contained in the engine, but if gasoline is thrown on the ground it may or may not be safe. It could just wash away with the rain or it could ignite, if someone throws a lighted cigarette on it.

I don't see the usefulness in your analogy of calling "sex outside of marriage" to be like "gasoline outside of a gas tank" Wouldn't it be more productive to say "sex with strangers is bad"? What is it about that signature on a paper that makes the sex safer than the sex between an unmarried couple who's been in a relationship for a long time?

Quintessence · Nov 24, 2022

Fun fact - the emphasis on purity of women and no sex before marriage exists because of patriarchal cultural norms. Historically, controlling women in these extreme ways was the only way a male could be "sure" the child was his. He had to own her, ensure she was pure, slept with no one else. Pfft... we have DNA tests now for that crap. Modernize, people!

That aside, I'm not part of a religious tradition that makes a hard distinction between physical fulfillment and religious/spiritual fulfillment. Religious fulfillment is governed by how your religious framework establishes its values, meaning, and rituals. If you are part of a religion that includes the body and the physical as important aspects of the human experience to embrace and find meaningfulness in, physical is just understood as religious/spiritual. If you are part of a religion that eschews these things, though, I can see where you get the hard distinction. I find it a bit weird, but my traditions need not be your own.

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart, and as luck would have it I just got this article yesterday which will hopefully aid in a discussion.

What Is Physical Happiness?

Abdu’l-Baha wrote: The physical happiness is limited; its utmost duration is one day, one month, one year.

This fleeting feeling of physical happiness comes from four neurochemicals: dopamine, endorphin, oxytocin, and serotonin.

“Dopamine produces the joy of finding things that meet your needs—the ‘Eureka! I got it!’ feeling. Endorphin produces oblivion that masks pain—often called euphoria. Oxytocin produces the feeling of being safe with others—now called bonding. Serotonin produces the feeling of being respected by others—pride,” explained Dr. Loretta Graziano Breunig in her book, “Habits of a Happy Brain.”

For example, we feel a surge of dopamine when we taste a really good meal for the first time, endorphins after a new strenuous and satisfying workout, oxytocin from hugging a loved one, and serotonin after a big promotion.

But, the happy feeling that each of these neurochemicals gives us is temporary.

What Is Spiritual Happiness?

Abdu’l-Baha said: The physical happiness of material conditions was allotted to the animal. …This is the honor of the animal kingdom.

But the honor of the human kingdom is the attainment of spiritual happiness in the human world, the acquisition of the knowledge and love of God. The honor allotted to man is the acquisition of the supreme virtues of the human world. This is his real happiness and felicity.

Our true happiness is based on our spiritual behavior. When we know and love God and acquire all the virtues that we will need in the next world, we make it possible for our souls to “find happiness both in this world and the next.” This eternal spiritual happiness appears when our hearts are illuminated with the light of the love of God.

https://bahaiteachings.org/What’s the Difference Between Physical and Spiritual Happiness?

The above excerpt from an article applies to anything in this physical world that makes us happy, but since the topic of sex has been a hot topic on this forum lately I would like to share what I believe about it. I have argued that sex act is a physical act that is engaged in for physical pleasure, while some others have argued it is spiritual. I do not believe the sex act is spiritual, not according to my understanding of spiritual, as noted above.

The effect of the sex act upon the body is an established scientific fact.

Does sex release happy chemicals?

Sexual intimacy can also help reduce feelings of anxiety and depression as it triggers the release of three mood-boosting chemicals — dopamine, endorphins and oxytocin. Feb 22, 2021
6 health benefits of sex

Sure, people are happy during and for a short time after sex, but people are also happy from drinking alcohol or taking drugs that induce happiness. Are those spiritual experiences? Granted, there can be a component of love with sexual expression, so that is a difference. However, sex is still a physical act that is unrelated to knowing and loving God or acquiring spiritual virtues, so I cannot see how it could possibly lead to spiritual happiness as defined above, although it does not necessarily thwart spiritual happiness.

"Spiritual happiness" is the term that religious people use to describe physical happiness that they associate with their religion.

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
There could be true love and commitment, but I do not believe in sex outside of marriage because of the laws of my religion, but even before I became a Baha'i, when I had no religion or belief in God, I did not believe in sex outside of marriage. That is my personal belief and I do not expect anyone to agree with it or adhere to it. It is a high standard to live up to so most people won't, not in this day and age, although I believe that it will eventually be the universally accepted standard of behavior.

By "high standard," do you mean "arbitrary standard"?

IMO, reserving sex for marriage is generally harmful and works against having a lasting, happy marriage. Marriage shouod be based on a foundation of love and trust, not on horniness combined with impatience.

Trailblazer · Nov 24, 2022

The Sum of Awe said:
I don't see the usefulness in your analogy of calling "sex outside of marriage" to be like "gasoline outside of a gas tank" Wouldn't it be more productive to say "sex with strangers is bad"? What is it about that signature on a paper that makes the sex safer than the sex between an unmarried couple who's been in a relationship for a long time?

Speaking from a religious standpoint, it is the Baha'i Law that makes sex right only in marriage, but speaking from my personal opinion, it is the marriage vows and certificate that spell commitment. Sure, couples can say they love each other and are committed to each other but if they can walk away easily at any time that is just not so. An unmarried couple who's been in a relationship for a long time can just decide to split up at any time. They do not need to go through a divorce and all that is involved.

Trailblazer · Nov 24, 2022

9-10ths_Penguin said:
By "high standard," do you mean "arbitrary standard"?

No, I mean a standard that is high in the sense that it difficult for most people can achieve.

9-10ths_Penguin said:
IMO, reserving sex for marriage is generally harmful and works against having a lasting, happy marriage. Marriage shouod be based on a foundation of love and trust, not on horniness combined with impatience.

IMO, having sex before for marriage is harmful and works against having a lasting, happy marriage.
Since sex is not a necessity, like food and water, people can wait if they truly love each other.

ADigitalArtist · Nov 24, 2022

In my practice/experience spirituality is a holistic approach to physical, mental and emotional wellness which are all interlinked and inseparable, similar to physical bodies being inseparable from experience of self, or experience of emotions.
To be in 'good spirits' to me is to have a balanced approached to the physical, emotional and mental needs so all three can advance as gracefully as can be expected within conditions we control.

That's my view anyway.

Trailblazer · Nov 24, 2022

9-10ths_Penguin said:
"Spiritual happiness" is the term that religious people use to describe physical happiness that they associate with their religion.

I do not associate physical happiness with my religion. I associate it with the things of this physical world.

The Sum of Awe · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
Speaking from a religious standpoint, it is the Baha'i Law that makes sex right only in marriage, but speaking from my personal opinion, it is the marriage vows and certificate that spell commitment. Sure, couples can say they love each other and are committed to each other but if they can walk away easily at any time that is just not so. An unmarried couple who's been in a relationship for a long time can just decide to split up at any time. They do not need to go through a divorce and all that is involved.

I didn't see you mentioning anything objectively harmful about sex outside of marriage, and therefore the "sex without marriage is like gasoline outside of a tank" seems like an entirely personal standard of trust.

People that have been with each other for a long period of time generally don't just walk away like that, unless there's a reason to.

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
No, I mean a standard that is high in the sense that it difficult for most people can achieve.

Difficult doesn't mean valuable or worthwhile.

It woukd be difficult to give up walking and only hop on one leg to get around. Is that a "higher" standard? Not really.

IMO, having sex before for marriage is harmful and works against having a lasting, happy marriage.

... asserted without support.

Since sex is not a necessity, like food and water, people can wait if they truly love each other.

Kind of naïve, no?

If two people are horny but only allowed to have sex after marriage, they'll convince themselves they're in love in order to get married so that they can have sex.

Have you heard the expression "marry in haste, repent at leisure"? Prohibiting sex outside of marriage is a recipe for marrying in haste.

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
I do not associate physical happiness with my religion. I associate it with the things of this physical world.

I know. I think you're wrong. IMO, any happiness you or anyone else experiences is rooted in the physical, whether you acknowledge this or not.

Trailblazer · Nov 24, 2022

The Sum of Awe said:
I didn't see you mentioning anything objectively harmful about sex outside of marriage, and therefore the "sex without marriage is like gasoline outside of a tank" seems like an entirely personal standard of trust.

Yes, it is my personal standard which is based upon my religious belief, not an objective fact that can be proven.

The Sum of Awe said:
People that have been with each other for a long period of time generally don't just walk away like that, unless there's a reason to.

Maybe not, but my point was that it is easy to do, much easier than getting a divorce. Did you ever wonder why two people who love each other and are committed to each other don't get married? What is holding them back?

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
Speaking from a religious standpoint, it is the Baha'i Law that makes sex right only in marriage, but speaking from my personal opinion, it is the marriage vows and certificate that spell commitment. Sure, couples can say they love each other and are committed to each other but if they can walk away easily at any time that is just not so. An unmarried couple who's been in a relationship for a long time can just decide to split up at any time. They do not need to go through a divorce and all that is involved.

Personally, I think it's better for a relationship to be long-lasting because both members of the couple wake up every day wanting to be with their partner.

A relationship where one or both partners stay not because of love but because getting a divorce would take too much effort is a failed relationship, even if the couple nominally "stays together."

Trailblazer · Nov 24, 2022

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Difficult doesn't mean valuable or worthwhile.

It would be difficult to give up walking and only hop on one leg to get around. Is that a "higher" standard? Not really.

I did not say that it meant valuable or worthwhile. Whether it is worthwhile or not is all a matter of personal opinion.

9-10ths_Penguin said:
... asserted without support.

There is support for that if you want to look it up on the internet. There are also married people who will testify to it.

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Kind of naïve, no?

If two people are horny but only allowed to have sex after marriage, they'll convince themselves they're in love in order to get married so that they can have sex.

Have you heard the expression "marry in haste, repent at leisure"? Prohibiting sex outside of marriage is a recipe for marrying in haste.

It could be a recipe for marrying in haste or not, depending upon whether people can control themselves.
I married three weeks after I met my late husband partly so I would not have sex outside of wedlock but also because I was in love, and I was married for 37 years. Marrying in haste is not always a mistake.

The Sum of Awe · Nov 24, 2022

Trailblazer said:
Maybe not, but my point was that it is easy to do, much easier than getting a divorce. Did you ever wonder why two people who love each other and are committed to each other don't get married? What is holding them back?

Many just don’t see it as necessary, some don’t want to for the costs that go into it, marrying their partner could be illegal where they live, fear of divorce (more difficult than a break up)… but mostly the first one.

What’s the Difference Between Physical and Spiritual Happiness?

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