Being accepted vs being right

I was having this conversation with a colleague that is a very intelligent, reasonable person, and he doesn't feel like going to visit his family for Christmas. He doesn't want to spend money on gifts either.
I suggested he stays home and enjoys his peace and quiet. People have the right to make their own choices and those choices should be respected, family included. He told me that he can't do that. Even though he knows Jesus wasn't born in December (he's not even religious) and he hates the consumerism culture, he doesn't want to upset others by not doing the same thing as them. For me that was confusing, so he gave me this explanation "most people prefer to be accepted than to be right". I've become so used to not following the crowd that I sort of forgot about the peer pressure thing, but what he said really resonated with me. It is true, isn't it? Most people really value being accepted by others above anything else. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Vee said:

For me that was confusing, so he gave me this explanation "most people prefer to be accepted than to be right". I've become so used to not following the crowd that I sort of forgot about the peer pressure thing, but what he said really resonated with me. It is true, isn't it? Most people really value being accepted by others above anything else. I'm not sure what to make of that

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Absolutely..... Social ostracization used to mean almost certain death, or at least hard living for a long time. We are a social species.

A person who is not religious isn't likely going to put the same weight onto the authenticity of a mythological event. I don't think Jesus was born on Dec 25th because I don't think Jesus is an authentic historical character. But it doesn't stop me from celebrating Christmas because the reason for the holiday isn't its mythological roots for me, but family and good food and cheerful lights, and a reliable time of togetherness we all automatically have off work to look forward to. I don't much like the consumerism of the holidays either and now that most of my family are adults we don't really do the gift exchange thing anymore. But we did when we had younger kids in the family because we decided that wasn't a battle worth picking, or enforcing on the kids just because of our beliefs.

Everyone's got lines in the sand and I'm no exception but if I percieve I'm losing little to nothing by being polite for friends and loved ones, I'll do the social thing, even if I'm not really into it. Because it's also about maintaining social bonds.

I totally agree. One should do what they feel like doing.

There's dislike of conflict, too.

I couldn't give a hoot about Christmas, but if I don't attend family celebrations(its not a religious tradition for most of the family; most are not religious) I'll be stepping on toes, and people will get ticked off at me. I don't want to hurt feelings or cause anger, so I show up.

I stepped on enough toes this year by opting out of the kids gift exchange(just can't afford it, financially or stress-wise).

So I think there's more than just threat of not fitting in.

The Hammer said:

Social ostracization used to mean almost certain death, or at least hard living for a long time.

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True, but that's not the case anymore.

ADigitalArtist said:

Everyone's got lines in the sand and I'm no exception but if I percieve I'm losing little to nothing by being polite for friends and loved ones, I'll do the social thing, even if I'm not really into it. Because it's also about maintaining social bonds.

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Fair point, but how much are you willing to compromise? I have to say I have a very hard time doing something that I really don't want to do just to be polite.

JustGeorge said:

I stepped on enough toes this year by opting out of the kids gift exchange(just can't afford it, financially or stress-wise).

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I hope your family understands that you shouldn't go into debt to buy gifts and that they value your presence in their lives and not the material things.

Vee said:

It is true, isn't it? Most people really value being accepted by others above anything else. I'm not sure what to make of that.

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Yup. Being socially ostracized and not conforming and rejection for most people can even be painful.

Vee said:

Fair point, but how much are you willing to compromise? I have to say I have a very hard time doing something that I really don't want to do just to be polite.

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I think it goes in layers. "I'm not showing up to your yearly celebration that we've been doing forever because I find it tedious, too crowded, and lacking in depth" would be rude of me to say(even though its how I feel). We compromise. "I will go, but I'll probably come a bit late and leave a bit early." I focus on the positives, like seeing Grandma(who is 94 and has a limited number of Christmases left). I don't tend to eat the food(some because its not vegetarian friendly, others because its gross). Some think that's a bit rude, but I'm okay with a certain amount of rudeness.

Vee said:

I hope your family understands that you shouldn't go into debt to buy gifts and that they value your presence in their lives and not the material things.

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Yeah, that they get. Some have offered money so we can buy presents... but its not just the money(though its certainly out of our budget this year)... our household observes two major Hindu festivals in the autumnal quadrant of the year, along with two children's birthdays(I just realized mine falls in there, too) along with Halloween(which is a kid/Hubby favorite), and by the time Christmas rolls around I am done. Beat. Kaput. Nothing left in me. I don't have it in me to shop just out of obligation. Some will understand. Some will not.

But, it all goes back to the layer thing... finding a balance between what we will/won't do while observing what is good for us, yet considerate of others.

I think each situation is different for each person, though. It all factors in to how for/against a celebration a person is, and how close/tense relationships with the people involved are.

Vee said:

Fair point, but how much are you willing to compromise? I have to say I have a very hard time doing something that I really don't want to do just to be polite.

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Depends on the situation but I low level compromised to be polite most of my life. Part of being an undiagnosed autistic maintaining a social mask up until very recently. It's actually harder for me to deconstruct the mask than to put it on so there's certainly times you've gotta self advocate and make reasonable boundaries.
But for me celebrating a holiday which history I don't share isn't enough of a compromise for me to be bothered. I'd still rather be included even if there's parts I don't like or don't agree with. But again I don't have any sort of religious imperative towards authenticity to make the compromise unacceptable.

I think it has a lot to do with family taking it personally and not wanting to offend or upset them.

ADigitalArtist said:

A person who is not religious isn't likely going to put the same weight onto the authenticity of a mythological event. I don't think Jesus was born on Dec 25th because I don't think Jesus is an authentic historical character. But it doesn't stop me from celebrating Christmas because the reason for the holiday isn't its mythological roots for me, but family and good food and cheerful lights, and a reliable time of togetherness we all automatically have off work to look forward to. I don't much like the consumerism of the holidays either and now that most of my family are adults we don't really do the gift exchange thing anymore. But we did when we had younger kids in the family because we decided that wasn't a battle worth picking, or enforcing on the kids just because of our beliefs.

Everyone's got lines in the sand and I'm no exception but if I percieve I'm losing little to nothing by being polite for friends and loved ones, I'll do the social thing, even if I'm not really into it. Because it's also about maintaining social bonds.

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*Drops mic*

I guess the way I might want to look at it, is to change the language slightly, to have it be something like 'being accepted, despite how you differ in your way of being right vs. being right.' Because that seems like the way I'd like to be accepted. And maybe the way I'd like to see it, is not really in enough of a realistic way, but that's the way that I guess I would like see it. I don't know. But it seems like if one has to put too much effort into being understood by others, then for me, it seems like there is an unfortunate energy loss in the whole thing

So by that, I mean that I can get along with other people who have a different 'way of being right,' as long as their worldview allows, generously, for acknowledging my separate 'way of being right,' without all of this effort going into it. And I guess I haven't found that much of that, that is out there for me to really be around

I tend to have spent a lot more time alone as I age, starting here in my 30's, though I never was that successful at being outgoing or social, even in my younger years. However, I don't think that I really recommend isolation, because as was mentioned, we are social creatures. It's just seems like this is how it turned out for me. And it could be that I don't put enough effort in, but I don't know

The end of the year holidays give me anxiety. My family doesn't really do this. Overall, I feel like I have had too much of a judgemental experience from people in the family, unfortunately.

Like for example, when I think back to that car accident I had ten years ago, and how my cousin thought it was nothing, after he had his own bad car accident a couple years later. He said something really sarcastic to me about it, and that's just stuck in my mind, and I don't really care if I talk to him in person again, quite frankly. I cracked the back of my skull on a metal truck frame after sliding down an icy hill. That kind of thing can give you delayed damage, though I haven't died of some kind of delayed onset stroke yet. But my memory did take a hit

So I will remember that he talked crap about that for the rest of my life, and I do not want to talk to him again. That's how that works. I could have grown up playing with him on the farm. Doesn't matter.

Vee said:

Most people really value being accepted by others above anything else. I'm not sure what to make of that.

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You are right.

The Hammer said:

Absolutely..... Social ostracization used to mean almost certain death, or at least hard living for a long time. We are a social species.

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'We' dosent mean everyone. Some actually enjoy their solitude and oneness.

Vee said:

I was having this conversation with a colleague that is a very intelligent, reasonable person, and he doesn't feel like going to visit his family for Christmas. He doesn't want to spend money on gifts either.
I suggested he stays home and enjoys his peace and quiet. People have the right to make their own choices and those choices should be respected, family included. He told me that he can't do that. Even though he knows Jesus wasn't born in December (he's not even religious) and he hates the consumerism culture, he doesn't want to upset others by not doing the same thing as them. For me that was confusing, so he gave me this explanation "most people prefer to be accepted than to be right". I've become so used to not following the crowd that I sort of forgot about the peer pressure thing, but what he said really resonated with me. It is true, isn't it? Most people really value being accepted by others above anything else. I'm not sure what to make of that.

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I guess it depends on the situation. If it's not too terribly important, is a one-time thing, with people you will never see again, meh, go with it. If it's something you feel strongly about, stand up for what you think is right. It doesn't have to be a big deal. Just a comment on why you don't agree and move on. Not meaning you of course...

Vee said:

I was having this conversation with a colleague that is a very intelligent, reasonable person, and he doesn't feel like going to visit his family for Christmas. He doesn't want to spend money on gifts either.
I suggested he stays home and enjoys his peace and quiet. People have the right to make their own choices and those choices should be respected, family included. He told me that he can't do that. Even though he knows Jesus wasn't born in December (he's not even religious) and he hates the consumerism culture, he doesn't want to upset others by not doing the same thing as them. For me that was confusing, so he gave me this explanation "most people prefer to be accepted than to be right". I've become so used to not following the crowd that I sort of forgot about the peer pressure thing, but what he said really resonated with me. It is true, isn't it? Most people really value being accepted by others above anything else. I'm not sure what to make of that.

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It would be like if you got excited about Christmas and started giving presents to you JW friends at Christmas.
Personally I do not get excited about Christmas and manage as far as possible to leave the present buying and meal preparations etc to my wife who is not even a Christian but who does it for the family,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who also aren't Christians.
Christmas is a cultural thing in the West for many people.

I think it's good for us to have to learn how to deal with each other's idiosyncrasies. It helps us grow as people: as one among many. And that's important.

Twilight Hue said:

'We' dosent mean everyone. Some actually enjoy their solitude and oneness.

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It's rare, but not unheard of, yes.

And company is still sought. You wouldn't be here otherwise I think.