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Yet another mass shooting...

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Japan has a big video game culture, yet acts of violence are extremely rare there. Same with many European countries.
According to the statistics that I'm reading 66% of Americans play violent video games whereas it's something less than 50% of Europeans.

I know the gaming culture is huge in Japan, but like Europe they don't have the easy access to guns that we have.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
According to the statistics that I'm reading 66% of Americans play violent video games whereas it's something less than 50% of Europeans.

I know the gaming culture is huge in Japan, but like Europe they don't have the easy access to guns that we have.

I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to say?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
According to the statistics that I'm reading 66% of Americans play violent video games whereas it's something less than 50% of Europeans.

I know the gaming culture is huge in Japan, but like Europe they don't have the easy access to guns that we have.
Right, but if violent video games are a primary cause of violent behavior, it would still manifest even without guns.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Right, but if violent video games are a primary cause of violent behavior, it would still manifest even without guns.
I'm not so sure. Video games allow people to participate in violence with a certain amount of detachment. So do firearms.

I think somene who would never have it in them to attack a room full of people with a sword might have it in them to point and pull a trigger multiple times.

And I think if we're talking about someone who grew up spending a significant part of their time doing just that, even if it was just at make-believe people on a screen, and did it while their brain was still developing, . . .

I suspect someone like that would wind up with some sort of hard wiring that would make it much more likely to point and shoot in real life.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to say?
I'm saying that we're seeing a generation, or maybe a couple of generations at this point, who grew up shooting images of human beings as recreation.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has something to do with why we're seeing mass shootings on the scale that we are now.

I mean we've had guns forever, but we just started turning them on each other in this way relatively recently.

I'm not saying video games are the only factor or even a major factor in the equation, but I'll bet it's still done something to help lower peoples inhibitions when it comes to pointing a weapon at another human being and pulling the trigger.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I'm not so sure. Video games allow people to participate in violence with a certain amount of detachment. So do firearms.

I think somene who would never have it in them to attack a room full of people with a sword might have it in them to point and pull a trigger multiple times.

And I think if we're talking about someone who grew up spending a significant part of their time doing just that, even if it was just at make-believe people on a screen, and did it while their brain was still developing, . . .

I suspect someone like that would wind up with some sort of hard wiring that would make it much more likely to point and shoot in real life.
As someone who played such games, had friends and family members who played such games, and two step kids who play such games, I don't buy it. There would have to be a pre-existing, underlying mental issue. Games alone don't make a normal person lose their sense of logic and empathy.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I'm saying that we're seeing a generation, or maybe a couple of generations at this point, who grew up shooting images of human beings as recreation.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has something to do with why we're seeing mass shootings on the scale that we are now.

I mean we've had guns forever, but we just started turning them on each other in this way relatively recently.

I'm not saying video games are the only factor or even a major factor in the equation, but I'll bet it's still done something to help lower peoples inhibitions when it comes to pointing a weapon at another human being and pulling the trigger.
Surely there's a study or something that lists what percent of those who carried out mass shootings were also avid gamers?
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I'm saying that we're seeing a generation, or maybe a couple of generations at this point, who grew up shooting images of human beings as recreation.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has something to do with why we're seeing mass shootings on the scale that we are now.

I mean we've had guns forever, but we just started turning them on each other in this way relatively recently.

I'm not saying video games are the only factor or even a major factor in the equation, but I'll bet it's still done something to help lower peoples inhibitions when it comes to pointing a weapon at another human being and pulling the trigger.

In my opinion they have little to no influence on creating a spree killer. If they did it would have happened anyway, playing cowboys and Indians like I did as a kid would have pushed them over the edge. Or cartoons that feature violence, movies, books, TV. The availability of guns would be the only difference that distinguishes America from the rest of the world.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Surely there's a study or something that lists what percent of those who carried out mass shootings were also avid gamers?

I read something once about a study, it was a long time ago, I recall them coming to the conclusion that children could distinguish between fantasy and real life.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Anybody else wonder about a connection between the rise in mass shootings and the rise in popularity of violent video games?

I mean how many people (kids especially) in the US spend a significant part of their day shooting at make-believe people on computer screens?

"The psychological group reports that more than 90% of children in the United States play video games. Among kids between the ages of 12 and 17, the number rises to 97%. More important, 85% or more of video games on the market contain some form of violence. The titles seem to say it all: “Manhunt,” “Thrill Kill,” “Gears of War” and “Mortal Kombat.” However, even the seemingly benign “Pokemon Go” requires players to go to battle.

The American Psychological Association observed in an August 2015 policy statement that research demonstrated a link “between violent video game use and both increases in aggressive behavior … and decreases in prosocial behavior, empathy, and moral engagement.”

Do video games lead to violence? | CNN.View attachment 68847

View attachment 68845
50 Years of Gaming History, by Revenue Stream (1970-2020)

I think to some extent these games have helped normalize gun violence. Probably especially true to an already disturbed mind.
There have been multiple, in-depth studies on this because it was one of the things the gun lobby tried to blame to deflect from guns being the problem. And, of course, some initial studies with bad setups found a link which couldn't be reproduced later.
Get some other scapegoat, this one's already dead.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
There have been multiple, in-depth studies on this because it was one of the things the gun lobby tried to blame to deflect from guns being the problem.

So if the gun lobby say it, it must automatically be wrong.

That doesn't sound like the best way to make determinations about all of this, "I'm going to find out what the people I don't like believe and then just automatically assume the opposite must be true".

And, of course, some initial studies with bad setups found a link which couldn't be reproduced later.

Speaking of links, I'm not seeing any in your post.

Get some other scapegoat, this one's already dead.

I'm not a gun owner or a gun advocate so I don't need a scapegoat.

But I'm not emotionally tethered to the other side of the argument either, which leaves me free to explore the possibilities with something like an open mind.

Which, as I'm starting to realize, is going to to make it almost impossible to communicate effectively on this issue with the rest of you guys (especially, I suspect, the gamers). :D
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
As someone who played such games, had friends and family members who played such games, and two step kids who play such games, I don't buy it. There would have to be a pre-existing, underlying mental issue. Games alone don't make a normal person lose their sense of logic and empathy.
Who said anything about "games alone"?

Edit: and what makes you think we're talking about "normal people"?
I thought we were talking about Mass murderers.
 
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Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
In my opinion they have little to no influence on creating a spree killer. If they did it would have happened anyway, playing cowboys and Indians like I did as a kid would have pushed them over the edge.

Video games are a much more immersive experience.

Have you ever felt your heart racing or your pulse pounding in your temples playing cowboys and Indians? It's a fairly standard reaction to a high intensity video game.

Studies have actually shown spikes in blood pressure while playing.

Or cartoons that feature violence, movies, books, TV.

You're just part of the audience in all the examples you give. It's different from being a participant.

The availability of guns would be the only difference that distinguishes America from the rest of the world.

Yes I agree, people who don't have guns are much less likely to actually shoot people.

Is that your point?
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Surely there's a study or something that lists what percent of those who carried out mass shootings were also avid gamers?
I would be kind of surprised if there were but looking for it would be an interesting project.

But considering that 90% of American kids spend a significant amount of time every day playing video games, I'd say it's pretty likely that most of the mass shooters did too.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Video games are a much more immersive experience.

Have you ever felt your heart racing or your pulse pounding in your temples playing cowboys and Indians? It's a fairly standard reaction to a high intensity video game.

Studies have actually shown spikes in blood pressure while playing.



You're just part of the audience in all the examples you give. It's different from being a participant.



Yes I agree, people who don't have guns are much less likely to actually shoot people.

Is that your point?

I thought it was your point at one stage but I'm happy to claim it if I'm wrong.
 

Sedim Haba

Outa here... bye-bye!
This is something new?
Im pretty sure we have better mental health care than we ever have.

Absolutely NOT!!! People were institutionalized in the past, when they needed it.
Today they're just kicked out onto the street, homeless with no treatment.
One - third of the homeless are mentally ill. THAT does not include the 50% with
drug abuse, which may be also have mental health underlying issues, but that
1/3 would have been in institution in generations past. Society won't spend a dime!
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
So if the gun lobby say it, it must automatically be wrong.
No, but it is automatically a sign that the one bringing it up, is trying to distract from the main issue. Before games it was TV and there is also the "poor state of mental health care". To me it shows that one is not interested in an open discussion, if the distraction is the first thing brought up.
I'm not a gun owner or a gun advocate so I don't need a scapegoat.

But I'm not emotionally tethered to the other side of the argument either, which leaves me free to explore the possibilities with something like an open mind.
Neither am I. Heck, I don't even live in the US.
And maybe you didn't even consciously intend to distract. It's just that too many debates on the subject have been derailed by gun advocates that I'm reacting on the pattern I see.

So, if you want to discuss violent video games and you are not a gun advocate, let's get the elephant out of the room, first.
1. Guns are the main reason there are so many mass shootings in the US.
2. It is too easy to get a gun in the US.
3. Local laws don't help when you just have to travel to a gun show in the next state.
4. Laws regarding gun restrictions and gun safety are too soft in the US overall.
5. A majority of US citizens would like to see stricter gun laws.
6. The influence of the gun manufacturers (through the NRA) on politicians is the reason that nothing is done.

When we agree on those points, we can get into the finer details of video games.
Which, as I'm starting to realize, is going to to make it almost impossible to communicate effectively on this issue with the rest of you guys (especially, I suspect, the gamers). :D
I already said (above or in the other thread) that this has become a binary point when there is a gradient. But it is the gun lobby who made it binary as they oppose any regulation.
 
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