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The Other Gods

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The idea that there are other “gods” who exist as real supernatural beings, albeit infinitely inferior to the only Creator and Redeemer, pervades the Bible. The Psalms fairly explode with evidence. “There is none like you among the gods, O Lord” (86:8); “For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; he is to be revered above all gods” (96:4); “Our Lord is above all gods” (135:5); “Ascribe to Yahweh, [you] gods, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength” (29:1, my trans.); “He is exalted above all gods” (97:7); “For Yahweh is a great god, and a great king above all gods” (95:3, my trans.). And so on.

But it’s not just the Psalms. In Exodus Yahweh predicts that he will execute judgments “on all the gods of Egypt” (12:12). The author of Numbers then declares that that is indeed what happened: “Yahweh executed judgments against their gods” (33:4). There is no hint that Yahweh is the only God. Instead it is clearly implied that Egypt has her own gods, and Yahweh will defeat them.
The Bible’s Many Gods | Gerald McDermott

Who are/were this other Gods mentioned in the Bible that the Hebrew were commanded not to worship?


Are these Gods still around?
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Setting aside what I think of this person's interpretation of the verses, the gods referred to may be divided into groups. The first group includes any Middle-Eastern deities the Israelites were familiar with. The second group, forming a wider circle, would include all other deities. The Israelites were (and are) not to worship any but God Himself. Are they still around? Well, according to Jewish thought these gods were never around. They never existed, and as such are not around. But there are neo-paganists today that worship some of these gods, so they'd probably tell you that these entities do exist.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Just Pagans (or Neo/Modern Pagans) - "Paganist" is... it sounds weird. Though yes, we do still worship the gods of our ancestors.

Given that the Israelites wouldn't have known of other cultures outside the fertile crescent at the time, those are likely referring to the Canaanite gods, Mesopotamian gods, Egyptian gods, and perhaps the Greek gods. But anything to do with gods of other lands, there wouldn't be anything *definitive*, at most this overarching assumed "they don't exist". Though it seems pretty odd to have a rule against worshiping things that don't exist.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I am reminded of a comment by my Rabbi during a recent Torah class:

"We should try not to read scripture like a 4th grader." :)
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
"We should try not to read scripture like a 4th grader."
Different paradigm, but I blame the way Abrahamic scriptures are set up. The laws should be set aside as a different context, but the rest should absolutely be read like a 4th grader. Or like Aesop's Fables or Grimm Fairy Tales; stories made to remember, entertain, and teach fundamental lessons. That kind of outlook even can help with retention.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...
Who are/were this other Gods mentioned in the Bible that the Hebrew were commanded not to worship?


Are these Gods still around?

Maybe they are dead:

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
The idea that there are other “gods” who exist as real supernatural beings, albeit infinitely inferior to the only Creator and Redeemer, pervades the Bible. The Psalms fairly explode with evidence. “There is none like you among the gods, O Lord” (86:8); “For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; he is to be revered above all gods” (96:4); “Our Lord is above all gods” (135:5); “Ascribe to Yahweh, [you] gods, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength” (29:1, my trans.); “He is exalted above all gods” (97:7); “For Yahweh is a great god, and a great king above all gods” (95:3, my trans.). And so on.

But it’s not just the Psalms. In Exodus Yahweh predicts that he will execute judgments “on all the gods of Egypt” (12:12). The author of Numbers then declares that that is indeed what happened: “Yahweh executed judgments against their gods” (33:4). There is no hint that Yahweh is the only God. Instead it is clearly implied that Egypt has her own gods, and Yahweh will defeat them.
The Bible’s Many Gods | Gerald McDermott

Who are/were this other Gods mentioned in the Bible that the Hebrew were commanded not to worship?


Are these Gods still around?

How about the First Commandment? "...thou shalt have no other gods before Me..."

And how about Exodus and the ten plagues? Pharaoh's magicians were able to match Moses' staff-to-snake trick, as well as the first two plagues that God dropped on Egypt, which certainly indicates that Egypt had at least some divine power on its side... that's why Pharaoh wasn't impressed, and God had to raise his plague game...

The theory I've heard is that the Hebrew religion wasn't always monotheistic, but originally henotheistic -- they acknowledged the existence of other gods, but only worshipped one.

I'd heard that the shift from henotheism to monotheism happened around, and as a result of, the Babylonian captivity.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
I've encountered some Jews that are still henotheistic, it's just monotheism has taken the stage as a term of familiarity as most of the world's population is currently monotheistic.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
The idea that there are other “gods” who exist as real supernatural beings, albeit infinitely inferior to the only Creator and Redeemer, pervades the Bible. The Psalms fairly explode with evidence. “There is none like you among the gods, O Lord” (86:8); “For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; he is to be revered above all gods” (96:4); “Our Lord is above all gods” (135:5); “Ascribe to Yahweh, [you] gods, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength” (29:1, my trans.); “He is exalted above all gods” (97:7); “For Yahweh is a great god, and a great king above all gods” (95:3, my trans.). And so on.

But it’s not just the Psalms. In Exodus Yahweh predicts that he will execute judgments “on all the gods of Egypt” (12:12). The author of Numbers then declares that that is indeed what happened: “Yahweh executed judgments against their gods” (33:4). There is no hint that Yahweh is the only God. Instead it is clearly implied that Egypt has her own gods, and Yahweh will defeat them.
The Bible’s Many Gods | Gerald McDermott

Who are/were this other Gods mentioned in the Bible that the Hebrew were commanded not to worship?


Are these Gods still around?
El, Baal, Asherah, Moloch, Marduk.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
"God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment..." (Psalms 82:1)
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I am reminded of a comment by my Rabbi during a recent Torah class:

"We should try not to read scripture like a 4th grader." :)

Tell that to Briticannica and historians.
Yahweh

Although the biblical narratives depict Yahweh as the sole creator god, lord of the universe, and god of the Israelites especially, initially he seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief cast back on the early days of Israel's development in Canaan.

Judaism - Myths


Myths

Biblical myths are found mainly in the first 11 chapters of Genesis, the first book of the Bible. They are concerned with the creation of the world and the first man and woman, the origin of the current human condition, the primeval Deluge, the distribution of peoples, and the variation of languages.

The basic stories are derived from the popular lore of the ancient Middle East; parallels can be found in the extant literature of the peoples of the area. The Mesopotamians, for instance, also knew of an earthly paradise such as Eden, and the figure of the cherubim—properly griffins rather than angels—was known to the Canaanites. In the Bible, however, this mythical garden of the gods becomes the scene of man’s fall and the background of a story designed to account for the natural limitations of human life. Similarly, the Babylonians told of the formation of humankind from clay. But, whereas in the pagan tale the first man’s function is to serve as an earthly menial of the gods, in the scriptural version his role is to rule over all other creatures. The story of the Deluge, including the elements of the ark and the dispatch of the raven and dove, appears already in the Babylonian myths of Gilgamesh and Atrahasis. There, however, the hero is eventually made immortal, whereas in the Bible this detail is omitted because, to the Israelite mind, no child of woman could achieve that status. Lastly, while the story of the Tower of Babel was told originally to account for the stepped temples (ziggurats) of Babylonia, to the Hebrew writer its purpose is simply to inculcate the moral lesson that humans should not aspire beyond their ***

Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text


The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis. Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.



Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer, translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.




Both Genesis and Enuma Elsih are religious texts which detail and celebrate cultural origins: Genesis describes the origin and founding of the Jewish people under the guidance of the Lord; Enuma Elish recounts the origin and founding of Babylon under the leadership of the god Marduk. Contained in each work is a story of how the cosmos and man were created. Each work begins by describing the watery chaos and primeval darkness that once filled the universe. Then light is created to replace the darkness. Afterward, the heavens are made and in them heavenly bodies are placed. Finally, man is created.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
If you are going to quote me, try to make the quote at least somewhat responsive. Verbose pedantry is little more that tiresome.
I don't care how tired you are, or your opinion of what historical scholarship has to say about OT mythology.

I didn't think an explanation would be needed but what do I know?

Are you comparing seeing older deities in the OT to reading the text like a 4th grader? Because they are clearly there. And the stories were taken from those cultures as well. The 4th grade reading would be to think they are literal and there is a magic being in the sky dictating words. And he flooded the earth and so on..





Andrew George submits that the Genesis flood narrative matches that in Gilgamesh so closely that "few doubt" that it derives from a Mesopotamian account.[67] What is particularly noticeable is the way the Genesis flood story follows the Gilgamesh flood tale "point by point and in the same order", even when the story permits other alternatives.[68] In a 2001 Torah commentary released on behalf of the Conservative Movement of Judaism, rabbinic scholar Robert Wexler stated: "The most likely assumption we can make is that both Genesis and Gilgamesh drew their material from a common tradition about the flood that existed in Mesopotamia. These stories then diverged in the retelling."[69] Ziusudra, Utnapishtim and Noah are the respective heroes of the Sumerian, Akkadian and biblical flood legends of the ancient Near East.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I don't care how tired you are, or your opinion of what historical scholarship has to say about OT mythology.

I didn't think an explanation would be needed but what do I know?

Are you comparing seeing older deities in the OT to reading the text like a 4th grader? Because they are clearly there. And the stories were taken from those cultures as well. The 4th grade reading would be to think they are literal and there is a magic being in the sky dictating words. And he flooded the earth and so on..





Andrew George submits that the Genesis flood narrative matches that in Gilgamesh so closely that "few doubt" that it derives from a Mesopotamian account.[67] What is particularly noticeable is the way the Genesis flood story follows the Gilgamesh flood tale "point by point and in the same order", even when the story permits other alternatives.[68] In a 2001 Torah commentary released on behalf of the Conservative Movement of Judaism, rabbinic scholar Robert Wexler stated: "The most likely assumption we can make is that both Genesis and Gilgamesh drew their material from a common tradition about the flood that existed in Mesopotamia. These stories then diverged in the retelling."[69] Ziusudra, Utnapishtim and Noah are the respective heroes of the Sumerian, Akkadian and biblical flood legends of the ancient Near East.
<yawn> so precious </yawn>
 
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