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Former theists: what do you miss?

PureX

Veteran Member
The question I pose is how is the god of chance rational in terms of your future? Can anyone infer or deduce chance? Why does science use this irrational method and why isn't the rational standard applied to science? Relative morality is based on the god of dice and cards. It assumes we cannot know the future for certain, so any path will still end up where the future unfolds. Morality is about extrapolating God to the limits and setting that distance point as the future. We may not know how it will end, but we have a vector.
You are talking about idealism, and faith. Through the idea of God you have defined an ideal future, and an ideal self. And you can use those definitions as a guide, or template as you move into the future. I agree.

Atheists reject this model. I don't know why. I guess they're stuck holding onto their probability estimates because they can't or won't trust in anything else. They tried to use God like a "Santa Claus" (as they were unfortunately taught) and it didn't work as they'd hoped, so now they're stuck with establishing logical probability and nothing else. That's as much faith as they can muster.

It seems to me, though, this is all about trying to gain control over the unknown: the future. And many theists do this as well, with the idea of the "Santa God". The God that, if they are good little girls and boys, will grant them a pleasant and safe future. Just as the atheist believes that their God of science will provide them with a way to see into the future using reasoned probability, so they can gain control of it that way. But it's still all about fear and control. Control of the unknowable future. Either by a "Santa God" or by "scientism". We all fear what we can't control, and we can't control what we can't know ... the future.

Blind faith (in God) provides us with a way to deal with that fear. It does not provide us with an ability to see into the future, though. It only provides us with a way to remain calm, and unafraid, so that whatever does happen, we will be better able to see it and deal with it. And as you pointed out, it also helps us to recognize and define the hoped for goals for ourselves. Which also makes us more effective in dealing with whatever the future does bring.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I am still part of the community, rituals, meetings, socializing...

What I miss:
- supernatural friends (Jesus, Mary, saints)
- a sense of security and optimism (someone is watching, listening to prayers and taking care no matter what happens)
- a sense of empowering and healing power from some rituals (sacraments)
- a strong hope for life in heaven (no scaring with hell in our church)
- no worry about the time of death
IMHO, you are not a believer, you are a doubting Thomas as I was before becoming an atheist. A believer will not have these doubts.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The one problem that both theist and atheist face is that neither can see their future.

The question I pose is how is the god of chance rational in terms of your future? Can anyone infer or deduce chance? Why does science use this irrational method and why isn't the rational standard applied to science? Relative morality is based on the god of dice and cards. It assumes we cannot know the future for certain, so any path will still end up where the future unfolds. Morality is about extrapolating God to the limits and setting that distance point as the future. We may not know how it will end, but we have a vector.
Sure, I do not know my future, but why is that a problem?
Future may bring up anything. I live in a joint family with my son. He may want to separate. I am 80, I may die today or suffer for a few years of cancer (I have been smoking for some 65 years). So what? What is to happen will happen. Why should I worry about it now?
How is morality based on dice? How is a God involved in my morality?
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I am still part of the community, rituals, meetings, socializing...

What I miss:
- supernatural friends (Jesus, Mary, saints)
- a sense of security and optimism (someone is watching, listening to prayers and taking care no matter what happens)
- a sense of empowering and healing power from some rituals (sacraments)
- a strong hope for life in heaven (no scaring with hell in our church)
- no worry about the time of death

Which church were you part of?
 
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