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Couldn't have said it better myself...

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
OK. :) You're making me smile because you won't look at the translations and original words. It's not my personal interpretation. But then we could always go to Dante's version to see a personal interpretation. Hell does not mean torture, as so many false religions make it out to be. And day does not always mean 24-hour period, protest as you will. I wish you well.
No, I have. You are merely cherry picking. As do those that believe in endless torment. The Bible can be used to defend both if one ignores the other verses.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Only in your personal interpretation. There are others that appear to be just as valid.

He has a different personal interpretation of the Bible than other Christians, and I don't see any reason why you, I, or any other non-believer should treat it any more seriously than the personal biblical interpretations of other Christians. The truth is that Christians can't even agree on what the Bible actually teaches, so I see no reason to accept his interpretation or that of any other Christian.

Protestants, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox Christians all hold distinctive perspectives on how to read the Bible, church doctrine, salvation, baptism, the ordination of women as pastors, and a host of other topics. Personally, I think Christians shouldn't assert that the Bible is the inspired word of God if they can't agree on what it really says or how to interpret its scriptures correctly.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
He has a different personal interpretation of the Bible than other Christians, and I don't see any reason why you, I, or any other non-believer should treat it any more seriously than the personal biblical interpretations of other Christians. The truth is that Christians can't even agree on what the Bible actually teaches, so I see no reason to accept his interpretation or that of any other Christian.

Protestants, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox Christians all hold distinctive perspectives on how to read the Bible, church doctrine, salvation, baptism, the ordination of women as pastors, and a host of other topics. Personally, I think Christians shouldn't assert that the Bible is the inspired word of God if they can't agree on what it really says or how to interpret its scriptures correctly.
The thing is you have to be drawn to whatever teachings may appeal to you. Now if the teaching that the unsaved will be tortured forever is something a person is drawn to without question or examination, or help from God, that's what they choose. Then again, there's always prayer, asking God for help to understand.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
He has a different personal interpretation of the Bible than other Christians, and I don't see any reason why you, I, or any other non-believer should treat it any more seriously than the personal biblical interpretations of other Christians. The truth is that Christians can't even agree on what the Bible actually teaches, so I see no reason to accept his interpretation or that of any other Christian.

Protestants, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox Christians all hold distinctive perspectives on how to read the Bible, church doctrine, salvation, baptism, the ordination of women as pastors, and a host of other topics. Personally, I think Christians shouldn't assert that the Bible is the inspired word of God if they can't agree on what it really says or how to interpret its scriptures correctly.
Again, the history of the nation of Israel demonstrates quite aptly that there were decisions made and forms of worship that were not pleasing to the Almighty.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
The thing is you have to be drawn to whatever teachings may appeal to you. Now if the teaching that the unsaved will be tortured forever is something a person is drawn to without question or examination, or help from God, that's what they choose. Then again, there's always prayer, asking God for help to understand.

Reminds me of Tarot.

Which is why I think Christian mythology is best understood like other mythologies, as metaphor rather than literal history. As soon as you drop figures like Noah and Christ into the literal world, they die, like Nietzsche's god.

Read the Bible like metaphor, and you are once again allowed into the Garden and all its richness.:)
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Reminds me of Tarot.

I'd like to be able to handle and read a deck of tarot cards, but anytime I touch or come close to them, psychic visions start to appear in my mind. It still happened to me despite the fact that I had used specific meditation techniques, protective crystals, and a unique rune stone created specifically for me to aid in spiritual grounding. After it happened to me three times, I came to the conclusion that I needed to stay away from tarot cards because I don't like these visions. I also steer clear of a spirit board because of its effect on me.

Which is why I think Christian mythology is best understood like other mythologies, as metaphor rather than literal history. As soon as you drop figures like Noah and Christ into the literal world, they die, like Nietzsche's god.

Read the Bible like metaphor, and you are once again allowed into the Garden and all its richness.:)

I agree. The Bible, in my opinion, is no more accurate or relevant than any other mythological literature.
 
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Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I'd like to be able to handle and read a deck of tarot cards, but anytime I touch or come close to them, psychic visions start to appear in my mind. It still happened to me despite the fact that I had used specific meditation techniques, protective crystals, and a unique rune stone created specifically for me to aid in spiritual grounding. After it happened to me three times, I came to the conclusion that I needed to stay away from tarot cards because I don't like these visions. I also steer clear of a spirit board because of its effect on me.

Have you tried making your own with your own symbols?

I agree. The Bible, in my opinion, is no more accurate or relevant than any other mythological literature.

Right, the relevancy for me comes with the individual and the accuracy with their ability to interpret and adapt it to their own requirements.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
O ., kay. So what does that have to do with this discussion? Are you implying that you are a "fake Christian"? After all you do claim that God is a liar. You just do not understand how you do that. Earlier Christians would have an excuse, modern ones not so much.

It is not proper to dodge a reasonable question. Why did you post that nonsense which only makes only look like a "fake Christian" instead of answering a question?
You're not claiming to be a Christian. I'll go back to your continued assertion that the word day always means a 24 hour period. It doesn't. Furthermore, have you admitted that they died? Satan the devil said they would not die. Can you at least be honest enough to admit that? He told her, You will NOT die. Did she die? Yes, she did. Whether you like it or not, the sentence of death was on her the DAY she ate from that to tree. And she died. Satan was the liar plus the word day does not always mean a 24 hour period.
1. She died.
2. Satan said she would not die.
3. God said she would but he allowed her to live for a time period within that considered a day. Not 24 hours.
4. There are extensions of the word day in life and in the Bible.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, the serpent did not say that. You are ignoring context again. He denied the "on that day" claim.

And a day in the context given would be a period of time less than twenty four hours. Considering their definition, probably before sunset.
Satan distinctly told Eve she would not die. She died.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You're not claiming to be a Christian. I'll go back to your continued assertion that the word day always means a 24 hour period. It doesn't. Furthermore, have you admitted that they died? Satan the devil said they would not die. Can you at least be honest enough to admit that? He told her, You will NOT die. Did she die? Yes, she did. Whether you like it or not, the sentence of death was on her the DAY she ate from that to tree. And she died. Satan was the liar plus the word day does not always mean a 24 hour period.

I never made that claim. I said that in this case the context tells us that it was to be clearly that day.

2. Satan said she would not die.

Context matters. Let's see what was actually said:

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

So Eve was saying that just touching it would kill. She appears to have been wrong about that. And she ate it. And she did not immediately die. i would give Satan a 90% honesty rating and God a 90% dishonest rating.

3. God said she would but he allowed her to live for a time period within that considered a day. Not 24 hours.

Where? Where in the myth does it say that?

4. There are extensions of the word day in life and in the Bible.

Oh, so it does not say that in the myth. Why did you claim that it does?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, the serpent did not say that. You are ignoring context again. He denied the "on that day" claim.

And a day in the context given would be a period of time less than twenty four hours. Considering their definition, probably before sunset.
Oh now it's the context according to you, probably before sunset? Doesn't say that, does it.
The devil never brought up about 24 hours or...day. he said she would not die. Period. She believed him. She ate. She died. Look it up. Genesis 2 and 3. God said she would die. The day she ate from it. the devil said she would not die. Each 'day' of creation was not 24 hours long. She died. The devil told her she would not. She died.
Genesis 3 says: "Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden?’ ”2The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3but about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’ ”4“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Did Eve die? Yes, she did.
What did the serpent tell Eve? he said that in the day she ate of it, her eyes will be opened and she will be like God -- frankly, I doubt you went over this in detail as to what it meant when you went to church. So I'll keep it simple until you may be ready in the future to learn more instead of denying, denying, denying.
Eve died. She did not bring up anything about day -- the devil using the serpent did. He told her what? That (1) she would surely not die. (2) he called God a liar. (3) He said she would be like God, knowing good and evil.
To reiterate, she died. The devil/serpent told her she would not die. She died. The word 'day' does not always given the context, mean 24 hours or 'day'light. But perhaps we can go over that later.
Some teach that each 'day' of creation means a 24 hour period, but the Bible does not bear that out. In fact it shows that the word day means far more than 24 hour period. Look at Genesis 2:4 and see what you think.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I never made that claim. I said that in this case the context tells us that it was to be clearly that day.



Context matters. Let's see what was actually said:

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

So Eve was saying that just touching it would kill. She appears to have been wrong about that. And she ate it. And she did not immediately die. i would give Satan a 90% honesty rating and God a 90% dishonest rating.



Where? Where in the myth does it say that?



Oh, so it does not say that in the myth. Why did you claim that it does?
Obviously we see things differently in the context of things. So hope you have a nice day, evening, or night wherever you are.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Wow! By that standard God's lie was a pants on fire one.

Okay, I will accept that Satan lied since by your 'logic" God lied too. And in an even worse way.
Did you look up Genesis 2:4? I appreciate the conversation to an extent, even though you insist that God is a liar. Which He is not. But anyway -- the Bible does not bear out that the word day means a 24 hour period.
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," King James Version.
Notice the word day there -- the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. So obviously the word 'day' can be used in different contexts.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Did you look up Genesis 2:4? I appreciate the conversation to an extent, even though you insist that God is a liar. Which He is not. But anyway -- the Bible does not bear out that the word day means a 24 hour period.
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," King James Version.
Notice the word day there -- the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. So obviously the word 'day' can be used in different contexts.
No, you misunderstand. You are the one that calls God a liar when you say that various myths in the Bible are true.

Why do you have such a hard time understanding this? If God can't lie then Genesis cannot be literally true. When I was a Christian I did not believe that God was a liar so I could not believe Genesis.

And in your quote the use of word "day" is used differently. It seems that you have a hard time understanding context as well.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Obviously we see things differently in the context of things. So hope you have a nice day, evening, or night wherever you are.
Your inability to properly understand context is because you know that God is a liar if one reads it literally. You are forced to make bogus excuses for him. Now you need to remember that by your own standards you called God a liar. Not my standards, your standards.
 
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