Homosexuality and religious.

CG Didymus · Nov 20, 2022

TransmutingSoul said:
For the foundations of Christianity and the religion of Bahá’u’lláh are one. The foundations of all the divine Prophets and Holy Books are one.

What are the foundational doctrines of the major religions? They are not the same. Even things about God, Gods or no God... Things about demons and devils. Religions are different. If you want to generalize and ignore those differences, then sure... all religions are similar. But are they one?

Yes, to Baha'is, because Baha'is explain away the differences by saying things were misinterpreted and added in by religious leaders, and the original teachings have been lost. Which is all I'm asking... Is what is left of these other religions right or wrong? If Baha'is believe they have doctrines based on misinterpretations and on things being added in, then I'd have to believe that Baha'is believe all of them have some things wrong about what they believe. Would you agree with that?

Trailblazer · Nov 20, 2022

Vinayaka said:
Outdated? Regardless of how you put it, it's still insulting to many, especially when that 'old' religion has far more tolerance for things like homosexuality than the 'new' one does.

I said "it just makes them old." I did not say anything about being outdated.
Tolerance for things like homosexuality does not make for a better religion.

The way people on here talk on this forum one would think that they believe that sex is the purpose of life.
The Baha'i Laws regarding sex are just one small part of the religion, they are not "the religion."

CG Didymus · Nov 20, 2022

Vinayaka said:
Outdated? Regardless of how you put it, it's still insulting to many, especially when that 'old' religion has far more tolerance for things like homosexuality than the 'new' one does.

It's insulting to our intelligence that Baha'is just don't admit that they believe all of the other religions are wrong in some ways and with some, in many ways. What are they going to say about your beliefs? To them, they are more than outdated. But, ironically, to some of us, they are probably already outdated themselves.

But, you know what, any religion that has a strict set of unchangeable and supposedly infallible laws, has set themselves up to be outdated. I keep asking them... what are they going to do? Will they vote for and support a law that bans homosexuality? The answer should be simple, "Yes". It is what they believe is a divine ordained law from their God. Will passing such a law bring peace and unity to the world? I really, really doubt it. Will people flock in droves to become Baha'is and follow its laws? I doubt it. So, maybe it's better that the Baha'is keep ignoring such questions.

Vinayaka · Nov 20, 2022

CG Didymus said:
What are the foundational doctrines of the major religions? They are not the same. Even things about God, Gods or no God... Things about demons and devils. Religions are different. If you want to generalize and ignore those differences, then sure... all religions are similar. But are they one?

Yes, to Baha'is, because Baha'is explain away the differences by saying things were misinterpreted and added in by religious leaders, and the original teachings have been lost. Which is all I'm asking... Is what is left of these other religions right or wrong? If Baha'is believe they have doctrines based on misinterpretations and on things being added in, then I'd have to believe that Baha'is believe all of them have some things wrong about what they believe. Would you agree with that?

The holy book of Hinduism is the Veda, or Vedas. Baha'is say it is the Bhagavad Gita. If you can't even get which holy book is the book, exactly what else might have you got wrong? It's laughable.

Vinayaka · Nov 20, 2022

Trailblazer said:
I said "it just makes them old." I did not say anything about being outdated.
Tolerance for things like homosexuality does not make for a better religion.

The way people on here talk on this forum one would think that they believe that sex is the purpose of life.
The Baha'i Laws regarding sex are just one small part of the religion, they are not "the religion."

You talk as much or more about sex than anyone else here. The purpose of life, in my faith, is to realise the Self God within, and from that, attain moksha. Sex plays a bit, yet important role in life.

Vinayaka · Nov 20, 2022

CG Didymus said:
It's insulting to our intelligence that Baha'is just don't admit that they believe all of the other religions are wrong in some ways and with some, in many ways. What are they going to say about your beliefs? To them, they are more than outdated. But, ironically, to some of us, they are probably already outdated themselves.

But, you know what, any religion that has a strict set of unchangeable and supposedly infallible laws, has set themselves up to be outdated. I keep asking them... what are they going to do? Will they vote for and support a law that bans homosexuality? The answer should be simple, "Yes". It is what they believe is a divine ordained law from their God. Will passing such a law bring peace and unity to the world? I really, really doubt it. Will people flock in droves to become Baha'is and follow its laws? I doubt it. So, maybe it's better that the Baha'is keep ignoring such questions.

We both know by now that the way to get out of a certain line of questioning is simply to avoid it. That's the strategy. If you can't think of some Baha'i standard line or quote to answer it, pretend it didn't happen.

TransmutingSoul · Nov 20, 2022

CG Didymus said:
And what choice are most people going to make as long as they are still in a state of being that prefers their animal nature over their spiritual nature? If it's going to take a change from God, then he can't expect most people to make the right choice right now. He could make us all more spiritual right now, but he doesn't. Why not? To teach us a lesson? That we should have chosen to be more spiritual? Even though most of us didn't have the capacity to be more spiritual?

We are all given the same capacity CG. Such is this life.

May your choices light you path.

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul · Nov 20, 2022

TransmutingSoul said:
IMHO, just look for the Light CG, from no matter where it shines, this is a key to the Oneness of God, do not look for the darkness. The Names of God are One CG. Abdul'baha shows us how all names can become one.

"......"Question: Are not all Christians Bahá’ís? Is there any difference?
Answer: When Christians act according to the teachings of Christ, they are called Bahá’ís. For the foundations of Christianity and the religion of Bahá’u’lláh are one. The foundations of all the divine Prophets and Holy Books are one. The difference among them is one of terminology only. Each springtime is identical with the former springtime. The distinction between them is only one of the calendar—1911, 1912 and so on. The difference between a Christian and a Bahá’í, therefore, is this: There was a former springtime, and there is a springtime now. No other difference exists because the foundations are the same. Whoever acts completely in accordance with the teachings of Christ is a Bahá’í. The purpose is the essential meaning of Christian, not the mere word. The purpose is the sun itself and not the dawning points. For though the sun is one sun, its dawning points are many. We must not adore the dawning points but worship the sun. We must adore the reality of religion and not blindly cling to the appellation Christianity. The Sun of Reality must be worshiped and followed. We must seek the fragrance of the rose from whatever bush it is blooming—whether oriental or western. Be seekers of light, no matter from which lantern it shines forth. Be not lovers of the lantern. At one time the light has shone from a lantern in the East, now in the West. If it comes from North, South, from whatever direction it proceeds, follow the light...."

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 247-252

So there are many Baha'i out there that are just yet to let go of names and become One under One God. We can all help each other find the Light.

Regards Tony

CG Didymus said:
What are the foundational doctrines of the major religions? They are not the same. Even things about God, Gods or no God... Things about demons and devils. Religions are different. If you want to generalize and ignore those differences, then sure... all religions are similar. But are they one?

Yes, to Baha'is, because Baha'is explain away the differences by saying things were misinterpreted and added in by religious leaders, and the original teachings have been lost. Which is all I'm asking... Is what is left of these other religions right or wrong? If Baha'is believe they have doctrines based on misinterpretations and on things being added in, then I'd have to believe that Baha'is believe all of them have some things wrong about what they believe. Would you agree with that?

I would reply to that question with the same post you replied to CG, it answers the question.

Be lovers of the Light. Regards Tony

CG Didymus · Nov 20, 2022

Vinayaka said:
The holy book of Hinduism is the Veda, or Vedas. Baha'is say it is the Bhagavad Gita. If you can't even get which holy book is the book, exactly what else might have you got wrong? It's laughable.

Like we've talked about before, Hinduism and Buddhism seem to have been added into the mix of true and revealed religions. With Buddhism it was easy. It was revealed by Buddha. But with Hinduism... what are they going to say? But I don't even know if the officially call any Buddhist or Hindu Scriptures as being true and revealed by God to a manifestation. The Bhagavad Gita and Krishna is a close as they could get and was good enough for their purposes of showing how their progressive revelation includes Hinduism.

So again, what do they do with Hindus that don't follow Krishna? To Baha'is, they are much more than outdated, or "old", they have to be wrong also... Making some religions one, and some religions wrong to Baha'is. But even the ones they say are "right", have to go through some reinterpreting to make them acceptable to Baha'i beliefs.

Nothing wrong with that, if a person is a Baha'i. Just like there is nothing wrong with a fundy Christian saying all the other religions are false... If that person is saying it to other fundy Christians. But when people in these other religions tell people in a different religion that what they believe is wrong, outdated, or old, there's going to be some debate.

CG Didymus · Nov 20, 2022

TransmutingSoul said:
We are all given the same capacity CG. Such is this life.

May your choices light you path.

Regards Tony

Are you sure?

The Baha’i writings explain that each person has a set capacity, and will have certain imperfections. The diversity of humanity gives each one of us different divine qualities we can reflect to rise above our lower nature to reach our spiritual capacity:

Difference of capacity in human individuals is fundamental. It is impossible for all to be alike, all to be equal, all to be wise... – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace

Vinayaka · Nov 20, 2022

CG Didymus said:
Like we've talked about before, Hinduism and Buddhism seem to have been added into the mix of true and revealed religions. With Buddhism it was easy. It was revealed by Buddha. But with Hinduism... what are they going to say? But I don't even know if the officially call any Buddhist or Hindu Scriptures as being true and revealed by God to a manifestation. The Bhagavad Gita and Krishna is a close as they could get and was good enough for their purposes of showing how their progressive revelation includes Hinduism.

So again, what do they do with Hindus that don't follow Krishna? To Baha'is, they are much more than outdated, or "old", they have to be wrong also... Making some religions one, and some religions wrong to Baha'is. But even the ones they say are "right", have to go through some reinterpreting to make them acceptable to Baha'i beliefs.

Nothing wrong with that, if a person is a Baha'i. Just like there is nothing wrong with a fundy Christian saying all the other religions are false... If that person is saying it to other fundy Christians. But when people in these other religions tell people in a different religion that what they believe is wrong, outdated, or old, there's going to be some debate.

Yes there will be some debate, but not much really, as most people consider the Baha'i too insignificant to waste time debating with them. For me, it remains a psychological or a social behavior case study, and an up close interactive one at that. In fairness I have seen some movement from some Baha'is but there are also some boulders that seem impossible to move. You did hit on a clear difference though, and that is the desperation to share in hopes of getting more adherents.

TransmutingSoul · Nov 20, 2022

CG Didymus said:
Are you sure?

The Baha’i writings explain that each person has a set capacity, and will have certain imperfections. The diversity of humanity gives each one of us different divine qualities we can reflect to rise above our lower nature to reach our spiritual capacity:

Difference of capacity in human individuals is fundamental. It is impossible for all to be alike, all to be equal, all to be wise... – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace

Sure we can expand on what I said, for the sake of brevity, I chose a simple statement based on being made in God's Image.

I see you are able to look up your questions and find answers for your own self.

That is a good thing.

Regards Tony

Trailblazer · Nov 20, 2022

CG Didymus said:
It's insulting to our intelligence that Baha'is just don't admit that they believe all of the other religions are wrong in some ways and with some, in many ways.

I cannot speak for the other Baha'is but I never denied that I believe that.

Trailblazer · Nov 20, 2022

Vinayaka said:
You talk as much or more about sex than anyone else here.

Only because so many other people are talking about it. Did you ever see me start a thread about sex?

Vinayaka said:
The purpose of life, in my faith, is to realise the Self God within, and from that, attain moksha. Sex plays a bit, yet important role in life.

The purpose of life in my faith is to know and worship God. I have not done very well on the second part.

I cannot for the life of me see how sex has anything to do with the purpose of life, except as it is related to bringing children into the world and raising a family. Other than that sex is a physical act that is engaged in for physical pleasure. Sex is not love and love is not sex, but all too often they get conflated.

Trailblazer · Nov 20, 2022

CG Didymus said:
Are you sure?

The Baha’i writings explain that each person has a set capacity, and will have certain imperfections. The diversity of humanity gives each one of us different divine qualities we can reflect to rise above our lower nature to reach our spiritual capacity:

Difference of capacity in human individuals is fundamental. It is impossible for all to be alike, all to be equal, all to be wise... – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace

“From the exalted source, and out of the essence of His favor and bounty He hath entrusted every created thing with a sign of His knowledge, so that none of His creatures may be deprived of its share in expressing, each according to its capacity and rank, this knowledge. This sign is the mirror of His beauty in the world of creation. The greater the effort exerted for the refinement of this sublime and noble mirror, the more faithfully will it be made to reflect the glory of the names and attributes of God, and reveal the wonders of His signs and knowledge.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 262

samtonga43 · Nov 20, 2022

Trailblazer said:
I cannot speak for the other Baha'is but I never denied that I believe that.

But surely if you believe that 'all the other religions are wrong in some/many ways' you cannot logically assert that your religion is somehow excluded from this.

Vinayaka · Nov 20, 2022

Trailblazer said:
Only because so many other people are talking about it. Did you ever see me start a thread about sex?

The purpose of life in my faith is to know and worship God. I have not done very well on the second part.

I cannot for the life of me see how sex has anything to do with the purpose of life, except as it is related to bringing children into the world and raising a family. Other than that sex is a physical act that is engaged in for physical pleasure. Sex is not love and love is not sex, but all too often they get conflated.

No need to respond to threads about sex. I've never started one either.

Aupmanyav · Nov 20, 2022

Trailblazer said:
No, it does not make all the other religions wrong, it just makes them old.

Bahai views also are old, 150 years old and the world has changed since then. Actually, Bahai views were old even when they were expounded. They were 7th Century rules re-bottled in 19th Century. Only that Bahaollah did not know that the world had progressed beyond them since he was uneducated.
Read it here: 19th century in science - Wikipedia

Aupmanyav · Nov 20, 2022

TransmutingSoul said:
Be lovers of the Light. Regards Tony

I do not think 'lā ʾilāha ʾillā -llāhu,Bahāollah nūru-llāh' is any light different or better than Muhammadan's 'lā ʾilāha ʾillā -llāhu, muḥammadur rasūlu -llāh'.

Trailblazer said:
I cannot for the life of me see how sex has anything to do with the purpose of life, except as it is related to bringing children into the world and raising a family.

And there is no other purpose of life more important than that, otherwise there will be no people to follow the religious shenanigans.

samtonga43 · Nov 21, 2022

CG Didymus said:
I'm still waiting for a direct answer to the question whether Baha'is would support the passage of a law that forbids homosexuality.

Yes, I too would like to know the Bahai view on this. But perhaps some would and some would not?

Homosexuality and religious.

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