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The Power of a Message of Peace is Unfolding.

Is Peace now possible


  • Total voters
    15

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
"The Power of a Message of Peace is Unfolding"? The power? Again, where is the support of the other Baha'is here?

And one thing I'd like to ask is what about the problems within the Baha'i community? Are things all rosy? I don't think so. The "old" world order has changed and is changing all the time. But Baha'is believe the way things now is too messed up to be fixed? But then... How is a world run by the UHJ and local and national UHJ's going to solve the problems?
Well, two members of the UHJ have to step down next spring due to their age, which I think is a good law in principle, although there may be some exceptions. These sorts of groups can do without old fogies stuck in the dogma. In all practicality, those two will be replaced by clones from the Baha'i ITC, which will mean that nothing will have really changed.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The greatest path to peace is realisation of the oneness of humanity. This realisation is born from the Oneness of God.

We all must look for the good in all peoples and all faiths, our common foundations are born of Love, Justice and Honesty.

Regards Tony
Looking for good doesn't mean you will find it. Telling others that their faith is outdated, no longer relevant to today's world simply means you didn't look hard enough for that good, or you simply didn't find it. If missionaries and pioneers looked hard enough, they'd see how great these other cultures on their own without Baha'i, and walk away, wishing them well.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Looking for good doesn't mean you will find it. Telling others that their faith is outdated, no longer relevant to today's world simply means you didn't look hard enough for that good, or you simply didn't find it. If missionaries and pioneers looked hard enough, they'd see how great these other cultures on their own without Baha'i, and walk away, wishing them well.

I see people get to decide all this for their own selves.

In the end, if one has the desire to become a global citizen, there is already a unity in diversity aim, as otherwise they would not consider the oneness of humanity in the first place.

So any perceived conflict of faith is much more ealsy resolved.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well, two members of the UHJ have to step down next spring due to their age, which I think is a good law in principle, although there may be some exceptions. These sorts of groups can do without old fogies stuck in the dogma. In all practicality, those two will be replaced by clones from the Baha'i ITC, which will mean that nothing will have really changed.

That statement is not made in the knowledge of the Baha'i election processes. Those thoughts are born from negative Web postings.

That was posted for others.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
That statement is not made in the knowledge of the Baha'i election processes. Those thoughts are born from negative Web postings.

That was posted for others.

Regards Tony
Wait and see, Tony. Since the last 20 or so UHJ members did come from the ITC, I see no reason why it would change now. Do you? I got the info from Wikipedia. It's such a negative Web posting. Thanks for clarifying.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I see people get to decide all this for their own selves.

In the end, if one has the desire to become a global citizen, there is already a unity in diversity aim, as otherwise they would not consider the oneness of humanity in the first place.

So any perceived conflict of faith is much more ealsy resolved.

Regards Tony
Yes, most people do get to decide for themselves, thank goodness. Too bad there are still a lot who don't but just let others do their thinking for them.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Wait and see, Tony. Since the last 20 or so UHJ members did come from the ITC, I see no reason why it would change now. Do you? I got the info from Wikipedia. It's such a negative Web posting. Thanks for clarifying.

The International Teaching Center is an administrative institution of the Bahá’í Faith based in Haifa. It is made up of nine members who are appointed by the Universal House of Justice for a five year term.

It is not a requirement for election on to the Universal House of Justice, that one has been a member of the ITC, but it may be a person that has been elected on to the Universal House of Justice, has been previously appointed to the ITC role.

Many bring this up as a conspiracy theory, that it is a requirement. Your comments about Clones is not respectful and is a negative orientated comment, so no apology is required.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The International Teaching Center is an administrative institution of the Bahá’í Faith based in Haifa. It is made up of nine members who are appointed by the Universal House of Justice for a five year term.

It is not a requirement for election on to the Universal House of Justice, that one has been a member of the ITC, but it may be a person that has been elected on to the Universal House of Justice, has been previously appointed to the ITC role.

Many bring this up as a conspiracy theory, that it is a requirement. Your comments about Clones is not respectful and is a negative orientated comment, so no apology is required.

Regards Tony
Like I said, Tony. Let's wait and see. You may well be right but we can talk again after the next elections. For sure there are a few folks sitting on the ITC right now that are ineligible, so it does narrow things down some. But let's face it, it sure does look bad. That's what the pattern is. If it truly was free elections, then surely somebody else would get elected. You can vote for the Australian anyway. No apology necessary for calling Wikipedia a negative Web posting. As we both know it's also a construct of the anti-Baha'i folk.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But let's face it, it sure does look bad. That's what the pattern is. If it truly was free elections, then surely somebody else would get elected. You can vote for the Australian anyway.

Actually, it does not look bad, unless one is trying to make it that way.

I will leave it there, as this will not be helping anyone to find moksha.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Actually, it does not look bad, unless one is trying to make it that way.

I will leave it there, as this will not be helping anyone to find moksha.

Regards Tony
Doesn't look bad to you because there isn't a single solitary thing about your faith that looks bad to you. It's difficult with such committed loyalty to step back and take a look. Yes I get that. But when on one hand it is said that any eligible male can be elected to the UHJ, then the UHJ itself makes appointments to the International Teaching Center, (also 9 members) and people move to Haifa to be a member of that group, and then the recent members (I think I was wrong on the number 20 earlier, but it's certainly at least 15) of the UHJ have all been elected after serving in the ITC, it certainly appears to a neutral outsider to be some sort of cronyism or old boy's club or patronage. I think that much would be pretty obvious to most. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Most certainly if they keep appointing women to the ITC, it'll become more difficult in the future to retain the pattern.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Doesn't look bad to you because there isn't a single solitary thing about your faith that looks bad to you. It's difficult with such committed loyalty to step back and take a look. Yes I get that. But when on one hand it is said that any eligible male can be elected to the UHJ, then the UHJ itself makes appointments to the International Teaching Center, (also 9 members) and people move to Haifa to be a member of that group, and then the recent members (I think I was wrong on the number 20 earlier, but it's certainly at least 15) of the UHJ have all been elected after serving in the ITC, it certainly appears to a neutral outsider to be some sort of cronyism or old boy's club or patronage. I think that much would be pretty obvious to most. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Most certainly if they keep appointing women to the ITC, it'll become more difficult in the future to retain the pattern.

You are wanting to find bad where there is not.

Nothing I say will change your approach to these topics.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You are wanting to find bad where there is not.

Nothing I say will change your approach to these topics.

Regards Tony

Then don't say anything, Tony. But it seems that nothing I say will stop that.
I did my research, and Wikipedia was the main source. Because you've yet to deny that Wikipedia is a biased source, is it fair for me to assume that you think Wikipedia has a decidedly anti-Bahai bias? It seems like it.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Then don't say anything, Tony. But it seems that nothing I say will stop that.

Do you think it was appropriate to post this and not expect to be corrected?

"...These sorts of groups can do without old fogies stuck in the dogma. In all practicality, those two will be replaced by clones from the Baha'i ITC, which will mean that nothing will have really changed..."

Would my silence help, was it unfair to call a foul?

In the end, peoples hearts are laid bare in their conversations. True feelings come out.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The greatest path to peace is realisation of the oneness of humanity. This realisation is born from the Oneness of God.

We all must look for the good in all peoples and all faiths, our common foundations are born of Love, Justice and Honesty.
Nothing wrong with that. But do Baha'is really do that?

Looking for good doesn't mean you will find it. Telling others that their faith is outdated, no longer relevant to today's world simply means you didn't look hard enough for that good, or you simply didn't find it. If missionaries and pioneers looked hard enough, they'd see how great these other cultures on their own without Baha'i, and walk away, wishing them well.
Because we know Baha'is don't do that. Has any Baha'i told you how good you are and how good your religion is? Do Baha'is make you feel as though they accept you as being one with them?

Come on Baha'is, can you and will you accept all of us here on this forum as being one with you? Because it sure seems you think we are lacking. And don't try to flip it back on those of us who question and doubt the Baha'i Faith, because it is you, the Baha'is, that make the claim that we are one and all religions are one. If you really believe that, then show it. Don't just say it.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
That statement is not made in the knowledge of the Baha'i election processes. Those thoughts are born from negative Web postings.

That was posted for others.

Regards Tony
Elected representatives elect the NSA members? Then the NSA's elect the UHJ members? Is that correct?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The International Teaching Center is an administrative institution of the Bahá’í Faith based in Haifa. It is made up of nine members who are appointed by the Universal House of Justice for a five year term.

It is not a requirement for election on to the Universal House of Justice, that one has been a member of the ITC, but it may be a person that has been elected on to the Universal House of Justice, has been previously appointed to the ITC role.

Many bring this up as a conspiracy theory, that it is a requirement. Your comments about Clones is not respectful and is a negative orientated comment, so no apology is required.

Regards Tony
But it does look suspicious. Like it's not open to just anybody. And only people that have the same goals and ideals get elected. Which, to some, sounds like a clone of the person they are replacing. Not a bad thing, if the ruling people aren't getting too rigid in their ways. But if they are... How do you vote them out? They have the power and authority. That's what is worrying some of us on the outside. But if you Baha'is think all is well, then okay. They're your leaders. If you're happy with them, then fine. It just sounds like it is too controlling, too authoritative and too conservative for me. But that's one reason why I'm not a Baha'i.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Do you think it was appropriate to post this and not expect to be corrected?

"...These sorts of groups can do without old fogies stuck in the dogma. In all practicality, those two will be replaced by clones from the Baha'i ITC, which will mean that nothing will have really changed..."

Would my silence help, was it unfair to call a foul?

In the end, peoples hearts are laid bare in their conversations. True feelings come out.

Regards Tony
I lived in an area that had several small Baha'i communities. There was a core group that got elected year after year to the LSA's. And that core made a quorum, so they didn't need anybody else. I forget who all the representatives were for that district, but I know that one lady was elected year after year. Things can stagnate. But then new people with new ideas might be bad for the Faith. The auxiliary board and continental board members are appointed because they are going to support and help bring about change? Or are they there to make sure things stay the same? Of course, for Baha'is, that "same" is what you want... Following the covenant and obeying the rules. Who better to promote and elect to the UHJ then a person who has proven themselves by doing a good job while on the ITC.

But only one question... What does the ITC do? And what does a person do while on the ITC?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But it does look suspicious. Like it's not open to just anybody. And only people that have the same goals and ideals get elected. Which, to some, sounds like a clone of the person they are replacing. Not a bad thing, if the ruling people aren't getting too rigid in their ways. But if they are... How do you vote them out? They have the power and authority. That's what is worrying some of us on the outside. But if you Baha'is think all is well, then okay. They're your leaders. If you're happy with them, then fine. It just sounds like it is too controlling, too authoritative and too conservative for me. But that's one reason why I'm not a Baha'i.

Any Baha'i Male in the world can be elected to the Universal House of Justice.

Given the guidance on who to vote for, it is most likely those that were elected are known for their virtues and morals and dedication to service and their qualifications,by many Baha'i all around the world. If a person has served in the ITC, it is more likely they have travelled widely and become known.

Regards Tony
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
When science is a human thinking.

The basis is your claim my machine use proves my thought...just for machines as machine conditions is correct.

Being your proof involving cosmic space sun mass sun dusts above...heavenly mass presence and a human thinking. Man plus machine.

Your science then religious science is a total fallacy of human theism.

You are a human only.

You think about upon everything else making up stories as just a human claiming connective.

You're human first.
You're natural innate conscious aware.
Your claim communicative advice heavens advised me why I'm linked to an ape.

Evolutionist is no different from a creationist. As you use spirit body type bio image owned as your theorising position. Bodies as type.

Type of theist in human sciences arguing.

No he says one cell was first..then body type spirit owned image second.

The same argument just argued as used variant human memory.

Before human theist the origin scientist or....a changed mind sacrificed human theist. After the fact.

Still however owning the same claim.

I'm human. I'm a baby human. For thousands of human years human babies are born by human sex.

First two human parents our thought says were exactly the first origin parent type for human babies today. Human.

Life human body image human owned consciousness to think as we do is to theory a human only.

Even if you a scientist human say my title says I'm more intelligent than you...you lie.

Human is human. Dominion to be the theist is a human only.

Our spiritual teaching is about bad human behaviour. Theists.

An ape in our water oxygenated mass is the same mass is an ape today. For as long as an ape was an ape. Having ape sex produced ape babies.

You know you are dominion human thinker you see it.

Then only by your choice you dig up some dead bones.

For thousands of earth years living humans themselves own dead bones.

Your claim the bones I dig up are different.

I'll pretend by my modern bio human life a story about some bones.

Why?

I'm pretending I know why those human bones aren't the same as mine are today. Human. Subject is human.

Okay.

What about today....can you dig up modern human skeletons that are also very disfigured?

Yes.

What's the difference?

The advice I use to compare the theme why the old human bones are not like my own are today.

Why then do modern human bones body disfigure now?

No answer.

If I live inside a common mass oxygenated water that owns one celled living micro organisms.

A chemistry human changes removes physical chemistry says look... now I see water cell microbes. As I removed physical bodies.

So you didn't invent them like you claim.

What happens to biology if one celled living micro organisms disappear out of heavenly life support?

You'd get sick in biology.

Oh.

So phenomena biology attacked claimed UFO causes killed off mutilated animal biology....could it have killed off human animal life before also?

Yes says science as actual organs blood not present in bio attacked life.

I think it proves the earth's heavens did not create life from a lesser history of our bio present life now.

So if all coldest highest states exist now cooled by ice saviour. Once non presence of ice in a cooled origin heavens would have supported human nature's Life.

As heated gas heavens in with nature only supported giant cold blooded dinosaurs.

We claim we returned from a pre human death a very long time ago. Not just a few thousand years ago.

Claim we emerged out of eternal body only when sink holes stopped opening...sin of man's science. Saviour of which was ice and a non hitting earth star that now only wandered by earth.

Said thinkers.

That being the argument. Spirit body type of one only form would own the biology connectivity. Water is itself it's owned body mass just water.

So it isn't the one origin body type shared by living biology. As from one celled to multi celled lives all live at the same time in waters mass.

As life bio is living in a separate life as the bodies each species body type owned.

If a human says I want you to accept the human life natural healthy body is of the great ape family we are still humans. No matter what you claim as a human.

Just because you preach once I was an ape isn't acceptable advice. All the time I've been a human.

As I am a human as human type it is by human sex as the only correct science human stated...
only .....for a long time.

If you claim an ape baby changed into a higher life as baby human....it still would be our mother now.

Reason human men look at the ape claiming in science it's humans mother. Notice in maths science human men out human mother out of human context always.

As who asked you man to put numbers onto genetics for machine studied theories only of a human? You infer you are a numbers God man.

An ape cell does not own genetic advice to be a humans mother. You are actually lying. Bible a testimony against the human theist. Human rights legal position only.

If you say first humans were ape like historic bones it still doesn't remove them from not being human.

As a whole ape is a whole ape.

A mutated ape is a Sick ape. For an ape to change its bio cell to greater cell it cannot be mutated.

If I say the eternal body existed forever before space a cause or created form became. Is just as acceptable as science by human claiming they knew that body type changed from first origin into reactive outcomes.

The difference from my thesis to yours...I don't put my own human presence involved with the reaction...you however do.
 
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