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Openly gay and Catholic

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
But you don't call out those who attack the religious. Practically the entire thread Homosexuality and religious was an attack on the Baha'is because of what the Baha'i Writings say about homosexuality. Why is it okay to attack all the members of a religion just because they disagree with you?
Was it? I thought that it was far more about Christianity. The thing is that if an religion attacks a group of people that did them no harm then that religion is at fault, whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i or Muslim. Many sects in those religions realize it and have changed their teachings.

You were agreeing about the incredibly false claims that @DNB was making about gay people. Why would you do that? What did gay people ever do to you or to the Bahai' faith?
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
All that He asks is that we behave good to one another, and warn those heading for disaster - how in the world do you take offense to that?

Speaking as a former Christian, I don't think anyone should look to the Bible to learn about morality. Personally speaking, I don't think that the following incidents from the Bible serve as exemplary examples of upright moral behavior: forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist; smashing the heads of infants against the rocks; ordering the death of witches; God commanding his "chosen people" to kill an entire populace of foreign nations for their land in a conquest to possess a "promised land," or God being irrationally angry and killing every living creature and eradicating the entire human race by drowning (with the exception of Noah and his family) in a global flood, thus committing global genocide. According to the Bible, this supposedly "all-knowing" and "all-powerful" God repopulated the earth with the same flawed creatures he had used the previous time before he threw a cosmic tantrum and drowned every living being in a worldwide flood. It appears that he is incapable of learning from his own mistakes, even after having regret for creating humanity, the animals, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds in the air. Shouldn't an all-knowing, all-powerful God know better?

According to Genesis 6:6-7, God regretted creating not only mankind but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air. A God who is supposedly "all-knowing and all-powerful" would surely know better than to commit the same error twice. But God did commit the same error twice, which, in my opinion, was either extremely foolish and irresponsible in terms of morality, or he did it because he is a sadistic and psychotic maniac who delights in punishing flawed humanity for acting precisely as he originally intended for humanity to behave. The Bible contains other verses that mention God's regrets in addition to creating humanity, all animals, and birds (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10). In addition, the Bible mentions God changing his mind about bringing disasters upon his people as retribution for their sins against him (Jeremiah 26:13, 1 Chronicles 21:15, Joel 2:13).

Some Bible translations substitute the word "repent" or the past tense of repent for the word "relent." For the record, Jeremiah 26:13, 1 Chronicles 21:15, and Joel 2:13 coincide with Isaiah 45:7 (NIV), which says, "I form the light and create darkness; I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things." The New King James Version uses the word "calamity" instead of "disaster," and the King James Version uses the word "evil" and not "disaster" or "calamity." The word used in the verse depends on the Bible version.

1 Samuel 15:3 states that God commanded the Israelites to attack and not spare the Amalekites (killing every man, woman, child, newborn, and animal and destroying everything that belonged to them). And Psalm 137:9 states, "Happy is the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rocks." So much for the biblical commandment of "Thou shalt not kill." In my opinion, the God of the Bible has a sadistic mentality of "Do as I say, not as I do," making him the most hypocritical (detestable and barbarous) figure known to mankind. And this article, "Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits," has several other instances of severe violence in the Bible.

Like I said, I don't think anyone should look to the Bible to learn about morality. That being said, I also think that people should take whatever the Bible says with a grain of salt. I'm of the opinion that there are many contradictions in the Bible as well as a few stories of Jesus that were adapted from Greek mythology and other pagan religions, as I explained in other posts, such as this one here.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why can't I say the same thing? What makes your beliefs true and my beliefs false?
Because I can properly support my claims. A religious book is never proper support when the religion is attacking other people. In fact it would indicate that that religious book is wrong.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Not in this case. For centuries those with religious beliefs have attacked gays and others. Now it appears that you are angry only because they want and deserve the same rights that you have.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Nobody is trying to take the rights away from gays. In fact it is quite the opposite.
Baha'is believe that gays should have the same human rights as everyone else, but our religious beliefs are another matter, and we have a right to them, just as much of a right as those who oppose us. Religious beliefs never hurt anyone, not unless they become secular laws.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Because I can properly support my claims. A religious book is never proper support when the religion is attacking other people. In fact it would indicate that that religious book is wrong.
No, there is no support for the claim that homosexuality is harmless. That is nothing but a personal opinion.

The laws in a religious book are not attacking anyone, they are just laws that some of us believe came from God.
People can choose to believe them or disregard them.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
No, there is no support for the claim that homosexuality is harmless. That is nothing but a personal opinion.

The laws in a religious book are not attacking anyone, they are just laws that some of us believe came from God.
People can choose to believe them or disregard them.
Not true. Psychologists could explain why you are wrong. But if you want to claim that it is harmful the burden of proof is yours.

And you could not be more wrong abut holy books. Some of them, the Bible and possibly the Quran say that homosexual should be put to death, and supposedly it is their fault".
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Was it? I thought that it was far more about Christianity.
I guess you missed the all-out assault on the Baha'i Faith in that thread. It has finally died down but it can be seen in the early pages of that thread and into the middle.
The thing is that if an religion attacks a group of people that did them no harm then that religion is at fault, whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i or Muslim. Many sects in those religions realize it and have changed their teachings.
The Baha'i Faith does not attack any group of people. All we have are laws that prohibit certain behaviors, but those laws only apply to members of our religion. We cannot change those laws because they were written by Baha'u'llah.

Christians and Jews ignore what is in the scriptures in order to accommodate what is now considered socially acceptable and in so doing they no longer adhere to what is in their scriptures. What is the point of having scriptures if they can be altered by man according to the way the wind is blowing at the time?
You were agreeing about the incredibly false claims that @DNB was making about gay people. Why would you do that? What did gay people ever do to you or to the Bahai' faith?
I don't know what claims you are referring to. I have nothing against gay people and it is not my place to judge them as I believe only God can judge anyone. I even said that in a post.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Not true. Psychologists could explain why you are wrong. But if you want to claim that it is harmful the burden of proof is yours.
I do not go by what psychologists say is harmful to people because it hurts their feelings and makes them depressed. I go by what I believe is harmful in the sight of God.

I cannot prove anything I believe is true since religious beliefs are not subject to proofs.
And you could not be more wrong abut holy books. Some of them, the Bible and possibly the Quran say that homosexual should be put to death, and supposedly it is their fault".
I know what the Bible and the Qur'an say about homosexuality and the punishments for such.
The Baha'i Writings do not have those punishments. The Baha'i Writings only have laws that apply only to Baha'is and the worst thing that can happen to a homosexual is that their rights to vote in Baha'i elections can be taken away, but that is only if they are flagrantly flaunting their homosexuality in public. Nobody is monitoring what they do in their own homes. That is only between them and God.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I do not go by what psychologists say is harmful to people because it hurts their feelings and makes them depressed. I go by what I believe is harmful in the sight of God.

I cannot prove anything I believe is true since religious beliefs are not subject to proofs.

I know what the Bible and the Qur'an say about homosexuality and the punishments for such.
The Baha'i Writings do not have those punishments. The Baha'i Writings only have laws that apply only to Baha'is and the worst thing that can happen to a homosexual is that their rights to vote in Baha'i elections can be taken away, but that is only if they are flagrantly flaunting their homosexuality in public. Nobody is monitoring what they do in their own homes. That is only between them and God.
If God is who you claim he is he is responsible for people being gay. Try to reason logically. Don't believe what you want to believe because it is in a book that gets quite a few things wrong. There may be some valid lessons in it but do not use it to hurt others.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If God is who you claim he is he is responsible for people being gay. Try to reason logically. Don't believe what you want to believe because it is in a book that gets quite a few things wrong. There may be some valid lessons in it but do not use it to hurt others.
That is absolutely untrue. God is not responsible for anyone being gay because nobody is born gay, the latest scientific studies show that. Humans have free will and the ability to choose, although their sexual orientation is influenced by many factors. Sexual orientation is a complex matter.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That is absolutely untrue. God is not responsible for anyone being gay because nobody is born gay, the latest scientific studies show that. Humans have free will and the ability to choose, although their sexual orientation is influenced by many factors. Sexual orientation is a complex matter.
So God is not omnipotent and omniscient. Glad to hear it.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
NO, I am not talking about or slandering or insulting any people. I only refer to Baha'i Laws.
go back and read the posts that you and the other said about gay people. You will find that he is right. I could understand him doing it. but I did not think that you would stoop that low.. I will admit that he was worse.
 
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