• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Fed Court Rules Collective Punishment Legal In Ameristan?

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Critics call Granite City's evictions 'collective punishment.' A judge calls them legal
Granite City Compulsory Evictions - Institute for Justice
Excerpted....
No one should be punished for a crime someone else committed.

That simple notion is at the heart of our criminal justice system—we are all innocent until proven guilty and should be punished only for things the government can prove we did. But try telling that to Granite City, Illinois, where city officials are trying to kick Andy Simpson and Debi Brumit (along with Debi’s grandchildren) out of their home as punishment for a crime everyone agrees they did not commit.

Why? Because Debi’s daughter (who does not live with her) stole a van elsewhere in town. In May of 2019, Debi realized that her youngest daughter had developed a serious substance-abuse problem. Debi took in her daughter’s two young children and told her daughter to leave them alone until she was ready to get clean. Weeks later, Debi’s daughter called her mom to say she wanted to turn her life around, so Debi did what moms do: She drove to where her daughter was staying in Missouri, picked her and her boyfriend up, and brought them to an in-patient treatment facility in Granite City.

But the treatment center didn’t last. Late that night, the daughter and her boyfriend showed up at Debi and Andy’s house, having checked themselves out of the center and now looking for a ride back to Missouri. Debi and Andy refused and told the pair to leave. That was the last they heard from them until Monday, when they first learned that the two had been arrested for stealing a van, apparently in an effort to drive themselves back home. Debi and Andy continued to do the only thing they could: try to provide the best life they could for the grandkids while hoping Debi’s daughter one day could get her life in order.

But that’s not good enough for Granite City. The city wants everyone evicted from the house: Debi, Andy, and the kids.

The problem is that Granite City has what it calls a “crime-free” housing ordinance that amounts to a compulsory eviction law. Under the law, if you rent your home in Granite City and any member of your “household” or even a guest commits a crime—anywhere in the city and, sometimes, anywhere at all—then your landlord is required to evict you. In fact, your landlord can be fined and even lose his rental license if he fails to evict you. That means Debi and Andy are on the hook for the van theft, even though no one believes they had anything to do with it or even knew about it.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
This strikes me as one element of a police state.
The ruling just might last until a judge or legislator,
becomes subject to this law they impose on the
masses. Personal experience is a powerful thing
because it illuminates problems that one might not
have given due consideration to...you know...it only
happens to other people, who deserve such treatment.

I wonder what the current SCOTUS would think about it?

Caution!
The Institute For Justice (the defendants' legal team)
is one of those goofy extreme libertarian rabble rousers.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Critics call Granite City's evictions 'collective punishment.' A judge calls them legal
Granite City Compulsory Evictions - Institute for Justice
Excerpted....
No one should be punished for a crime someone else committed.

That simple notion is at the heart of our criminal justice system—we are all innocent until proven guilty and should be punished only for things the government can prove we did. But try telling that to Granite City, Illinois, where city officials are trying to kick Andy Simpson and Debi Brumit (along with Debi’s grandchildren) out of their home as punishment for a crime everyone agrees they did not commit.

Why? Because Debi’s daughter (who does not live with her) stole a van elsewhere in town. In May of 2019, Debi realized that her youngest daughter had developed a serious substance-abuse problem. Debi took in her daughter’s two young children and told her daughter to leave them alone until she was ready to get clean. Weeks later, Debi’s daughter called her mom to say she wanted to turn her life around, so Debi did what moms do: She drove to where her daughter was staying in Missouri, picked her and her boyfriend up, and brought them to an in-patient treatment facility in Granite City.

But the treatment center didn’t last. Late that night, the daughter and her boyfriend showed up at Debi and Andy’s house, having checked themselves out of the center and now looking for a ride back to Missouri. Debi and Andy refused and told the pair to leave. That was the last they heard from them until Monday, when they first learned that the two had been arrested for stealing a van, apparently in an effort to drive themselves back home. Debi and Andy continued to do the only thing they could: try to provide the best life they could for the grandkids while hoping Debi’s daughter one day could get her life in order.

But that’s not good enough for Granite City. The city wants everyone evicted from the house: Debi, Andy, and the kids.

The problem is that Granite City has what it calls a “crime-free” housing ordinance that amounts to a compulsory eviction law. Under the law, if you rent your home in Granite City and any member of your “household” or even a guest commits a crime—anywhere in the city and, sometimes, anywhere at all—then your landlord is required to evict you. In fact, your landlord can be fined and even lose his rental license if he fails to evict you. That means Debi and Andy are on the hook for the van theft, even though no one believes they had anything to do with it or even knew about it.

This is also a problem in cases of domestic violence, where if the cops keep getting called to a rented residence because of domestic violence, they can evict the resident (who is not the perpetrator in these cases). Some districts have these awful laws.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Invest in jackboots and you'll make a fortune. Of course you have to do it before Congress does or they'll run the price so high you could lose. In fact it's probably too late.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I've felt that way about the Dreamers who some would punish because their parent came here illegally and brought their children. There are those who want to show how inhuman they are by deporting people who are earning a living, have American children and were brought here when young minors who had no choice in the matter. Some laws are unjust and should be illegal.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
This strikes me as one element of a police state.
The ruling just might last until a judge or legislator,
becomes subject to this law they impose on the
masses. Personal experience is a powerful thing
because it illuminates problems that one might not
have given due consideration to...you know...it only
happens to other people, who deserve such treatment.

I wonder what the current SCOTUS would think about it?

Caution!
The Institute For Justice (the defendants' legal team)
is one of those goofy extreme libertarian rabble rousers.
It certainly sounds wrong to me. I don't believe it would be possible to do that in Canada -- though don't take my word on that!
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Critics call Granite City's evictions 'collective punishment.' A judge calls them legal
Granite City Compulsory Evictions - Institute for Justice
Excerpted....
No one should be punished for a crime someone else committed.

That simple notion is at the heart of our criminal justice system—we are all innocent until proven guilty and should be punished only for things the government can prove we did. But try telling that to Granite City, Illinois, where city officials are trying to kick Andy Simpson and Debi Brumit (along with Debi’s grandchildren) out of their home as punishment for a crime everyone agrees they did not commit.

Why? Because Debi’s daughter (who does not live with her) stole a van elsewhere in town. In May of 2019, Debi realized that her youngest daughter had developed a serious substance-abuse problem. Debi took in her daughter’s two young children and told her daughter to leave them alone until she was ready to get clean. Weeks later, Debi’s daughter called her mom to say she wanted to turn her life around, so Debi did what moms do: She drove to where her daughter was staying in Missouri, picked her and her boyfriend up, and brought them to an in-patient treatment facility in Granite City.

But the treatment center didn’t last. Late that night, the daughter and her boyfriend showed up at Debi and Andy’s house, having checked themselves out of the center and now looking for a ride back to Missouri. Debi and Andy refused and told the pair to leave. That was the last they heard from them until Monday, when they first learned that the two had been arrested for stealing a van, apparently in an effort to drive themselves back home. Debi and Andy continued to do the only thing they could: try to provide the best life they could for the grandkids while hoping Debi’s daughter one day could get her life in order.

But that’s not good enough for Granite City. The city wants everyone evicted from the house: Debi, Andy, and the kids.

The problem is that Granite City has what it calls a “crime-free” housing ordinance that amounts to a compulsory eviction law. Under the law, if you rent your home in Granite City and any member of your “household” or even a guest commits a crime—anywhere in the city and, sometimes, anywhere at all—then your landlord is required to evict you. In fact, your landlord can be fined and even lose his rental license if he fails to evict you. That means Debi and Andy are on the hook for the van theft, even though no one believes they had anything to do with it or even knew about it.

That is ridiculous. I used to live near there. Glad I moved.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Do unexpected rulings happen in Canuckistan?
Our judges and juries are human -- they've made surprising rulings. We have, I'm delighted to say, freed quite a few people wrongly convicted of murder. Those seem important to me. Many of them were compensated, for wrongful conviction and incarceration. Some (Steven Truscott, for example) were under sentence of death (which we abolished in 1963).

I actually reviewed a lot of the evidence in one case (Steven Truscott), because I was a friend of the daughter of the author of "The Trial of Steven Truscott," Isabel Lebourdais. Truscott was the youngest person sentenced to death in Canada (he was accused of rape and murder at the age of 12, tried and sentenced at 14). He spent years in prison, and more years fighting to prove his innocence. He was eventually awarded $6.5 million (that's over several hundred US :D).

Overturned convictions in Canada - Wikipedia
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Critics call Granite City's evictions 'collective punishment.' A judge calls them legal
Granite City Compulsory Evictions - Institute for Justice
Excerpted....
No one should be punished for a crime someone else committed.

That simple notion is at the heart of our criminal justice system—we are all innocent until proven guilty and should be punished only for things the government can prove we did. But try telling that to Granite City, Illinois, where city officials are trying to kick Andy Simpson and Debi Brumit (along with Debi’s grandchildren) out of their home as punishment for a crime everyone agrees they did not commit.

Why? Because Debi’s daughter (who does not live with her) stole a van elsewhere in town. In May of 2019, Debi realized that her youngest daughter had developed a serious substance-abuse problem. Debi took in her daughter’s two young children and told her daughter to leave them alone until she was ready to get clean. Weeks later, Debi’s daughter called her mom to say she wanted to turn her life around, so Debi did what moms do: She drove to where her daughter was staying in Missouri, picked her and her boyfriend up, and brought them to an in-patient treatment facility in Granite City.

But the treatment center didn’t last. Late that night, the daughter and her boyfriend showed up at Debi and Andy’s house, having checked themselves out of the center and now looking for a ride back to Missouri. Debi and Andy refused and told the pair to leave. That was the last they heard from them until Monday, when they first learned that the two had been arrested for stealing a van, apparently in an effort to drive themselves back home. Debi and Andy continued to do the only thing they could: try to provide the best life they could for the grandkids while hoping Debi’s daughter one day could get her life in order.

But that’s not good enough for Granite City. The city wants everyone evicted from the house: Debi, Andy, and the kids.

The problem is that Granite City has what it calls a “crime-free” housing ordinance that amounts to a compulsory eviction law. Under the law, if you rent your home in Granite City and any member of your “household” or even a guest commits a crime—anywhere in the city and, sometimes, anywhere at all—then your landlord is required to evict you. In fact, your landlord can be fined and even lose his rental license if he fails to evict you. That means Debi and Andy are on the hook for the van theft, even though no one believes they had anything to do with it or even knew about it.
Gee
I'm curious what party proposed the law and what party passed and signed off on it?

Republicans? Democrats? Both?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It certainly sounds wrong to me. I don't believe it would be possible to do that in Canada -- though don't take my word on that!
A few years ago I would have said the same for the US. Now I am afraid that if this got to the USSC that they would find for the city. It is an incredibly immoral law that will do more harm than good.
 
Top