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Non-Physical Belief
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
DNB
Christian
So we can't prove the existence of anything that is not physical, let alone the existence of a non-physical God.
Why believe in the existence of anything that is not physical?
To claim something is spiritual (non-physical) you are saying there is no way to verify that it exists.
I can believe there is a non-physical million dollars in gold in my closet.
While maybe I can convince someone to buy my non-physical gold, they ain't going to be happy when I tell them there is no way to prove the gold they just bought exists. They are just going to have to trust me on that.
Yet folks continue to sell us a belief in the non-physical.
How does one quantify or tangibly prove love?
JDMS
Academic Workhorse
All these require physical brains. You require a brain to love someone, value something, or believe anything. You cannot do any of these things without the brain... a physical structure.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yes, necessary, but not sufficient. The world is physical and that matters. That it matters to someone as it matter is without a physical referent for the feeling that it matters.
Sorry, the world has physical elements, but it is not just physical in practice.
Colt
Well-Known Member
So we can't prove the existence of anything that is not physical, let alone the existence of a non-physical God.
Why believe in the existence of anything that is not physical?
To claim something is spiritual (non-physical) you are saying there is no way to verify that it exists.
I can believe there is a non-physical million dollars in gold in my closet.
While maybe I can convince someone to buy my non-physical gold, they ain't going to be happy when I tell them there is no way to prove the gold they just bought exists. They are just going to have to trust me on that.
Yet folks continue to sell us a belief in the non-physical.
The phenomenon of analyzing the material universe shows that we are apart from it.
The physical is mostly empty space, units of energy.
Consciousness is non physical. It transcends the electrochemical platform of the brain.
It is in the high consciousness that we make contact with spiritual reality or non physical reality.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Prove it. Ultimately you are reduced to reporting individual experiences which are subjective and not falsifiable.
Who sold you on that idea?
Do you need someone to prove love to you?
You know there are some people who can't feel love like the rest of us. This is called depersonalisation disorder.
Their brain is not physically wired for it.
Love is a physical process, even though you may not understand how it works, most people can still feel it.
Colt
Well-Known Member
The fact that you ask is proof that you are conscious. If you are not conscious let us know.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Prove consciousness? If man were just a machine, then there would be no "individual experiences." A machine didn't conceive of the term "falsifiable".
"The very pessimism of the most pessimistic materialist is, in and of itself, sufficient proof that the universe of the pessimist is not wholly material. Both optimism and pessimism are concept reactions in a mind conscious of values as well as of facts. If the universe were truly what the materialist regards it to be, man as a human machine would then be devoid of all conscious recognition of that very fact. Without the consciousness of the concept of values within the spirit-born mind, the fact of universe materialism and the mechanistic phenomena of universe operation would be wholly unrecognized by man. One machine cannot be conscious of the nature or value of another machine.
A mechanistic philosophy of life and the universe cannot be scientific because science recognizes and deals only with materials and facts. Philosophy is inevitably superscientific. Man is a material fact of nature, but his life is a phenomenon which transcends the material levels of nature in that it exhibits the control attributes of mind and the creative qualities of spirit.
The sincere effort of man to become a mechanist represents the tragic phenomenon of that man’s futile effort to commit intellectual and moral suicide. But he cannot do it.
If the universe were only material and man only a machine, there would be no science to embolden the scientist to postulate this mechanization of the universe. Machines cannot measure, classify, nor evaluate themselves. Such a scientific piece of work could be executed only by some entity of supermachine status.
If universe reality is only one vast machine, then man must be outside of the universe and apart from it in order to recognize such a fact and become conscious of the insight of such an evaluation.
If man is only a machine, by what technique does this man come to believe or claim to know that he is only a machine? The experience of self-conscious evaluation of one’s self is never an attribute of a mere machine. A self-conscious and avowed mechanist is the best possible answer to mechanism. If materialism were a fact, there could be no self-conscious mechanist. It is also true that one must first be a moral person before one can perform immoral acts." UB 1985
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Consciousness is not independent from the material of the brain.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Right, but it's still transcendent. The brain is subject to gravity but not conciousness.
I think therefore I am?
However none of this proves that consciousness is a non-physical process.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Consciousness relies on the physical brain as a platform, but it transcends the material brain. Consciousness is not bound by material gravity.
Sure in the realm of the brain's virtual reality, you are an omnipotent God. You can imagine your consciousness to be anywhere you want it to be.
Colt
Well-Known Member
We don't need to imagine consciousness being somewhere, we are just conscious. You are consciously denying the point becuse it refutes your materialistic philosophy. Its obvious to me that you are more than just a machine.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
So we can't prove the existence of anything that is not physical, let alone the existence of a non-physical God.
Why believe in the existence of anything that is not physical?
To claim something is spiritual (non-physical) you are saying there is no way to verify that it exists.
I can believe there is a non-physical million dollars in gold in my closet.
While maybe I can convince someone to buy my non-physical gold, they ain't going to be happy when I tell them there is no way to prove the gold they just bought exists. They are just going to have to trust me on that.
Yet folks continue to sell us a belief in the non-physical.
Are time and space physical? Can you hold either in your hands? Can you touch them, weigh them, picture them?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
That is not limited to time and space. Say you look at a stone, a piece of rock, and note that the stone is grey looking. Fine, now look at it and tell how you see it is physical? Physical is an abstract category, some people use. That is all.
DNB
Christian
It's not measurable, and it's entirely subjective and circumstantial, as are all other cognizance of the spirit
Non humans do not love and are not moral creatures, whereas all humans have that potential.
The spirit is clearly alive on earth due to the fact that all humans were created in the image of God - who is spirit , and thus, man is spiritual.