The Mechanics of Death

There are theories. I have a few I've played with in my mind possible possibilities. But since it's unknown then I focus more on the present. With the living rather then the dead. I do not know what happens after you die but I can make a difference here on earth.

VoidCat said:

There are theories. I have a few I've played with in my mind possible possibilities. But since it's unknown then I focus more on the present. With the living rather then the dead. I do not know what happens after you die but I can make a difference here on earth.

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One possibility is regarding suicide. I hope this isn't the case but it is a possibility I've read. The possibility is that after the person commits suicide the soul relives the suicide over and over again. I do not subscribe nor dont subscribe to the belief. Merely note it as a possibility. I hope it isnt the case. If someone dies from suicide my hope is that they are able to rest and finally find peace.

I recall however there being a term for an soul that stays reliving their death stuck on earth due to a violent death which is where that possibility comes from. I dont remember what it was or if the imprint could ever break from reliving it @Sgt. Pepper might.

dybmh said:

What does your faith or belief system teach about the mechanics of death?

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a terrestrial/earthly body is necessary for the earthly/terrestrial experience. When that experience is finished the earthly form is dropped and allowed to return to it's origin.

dybmh said:

Is the soul estinguished or somehow removed from the body?

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just the opposite. the covering is removed. the earthly clothing is disrobed.

dybmh said:

Is there an inner light that expires?

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no, in fact it's uncovered.

ChristineM said:

I love the doors music, thanks for posting it.

I prefer sleep, it's like death but without the long term commitment

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Human Brain Still Awake, Even During Deep Sleep

ChristineM said:

I love the doors music, thanks for posting it.

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Morrison's lyrics to Riders on the Storm could probably be added to the Luther and Rabbi Hirsch quotes (I posted) that parallel Aupmanyav's statement about Hinduism.

All spiritual thought comes from the same source.




John

dybmh said:

What does your faith or belief system teach about the mechanics of death? Is there an angel of death? Is the soul estinguished or somehow removed from the body? Is there an inner light that expires? Is there perhaps "the kiss of death"? Are there ways to avoid or postpone death? Any other details are greatly appreciated.

This is in religious Q&A; So no debate. Hopefully there will be good diversity in the replies.

Thank you,

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Because Wicca is not an organized religion, there is no specific answer to your questions. Each Wiccan decides for themselves what they believe about death and the afterlife. Wicca isn't a religion that pompously claims to be the only one with the correct answers to what happens after death. There are no scriptures, no widely accepted revelations, and no doctrines about what the afterlife might be. There are a few differing views found within Wicca when it comes to life after death, but there isn't an overseeing authority that instructs Wiccans to believe in any particular version of life after death. There are conclusions that many Wiccans may share, such as reincarnation, but there are no "official" stances. The openness in Wicca concerning death and the afterlife is one reason why I like it.

Spiritualists, on the other hand, have specific beliefs about death and the afterlife. They believe that the afterlife, or "spirit world," is an eternal existence that is not limited by space or time, and that human spirits can freely move between the spiritual realm and the physical realm by passing through a spiritual vortex (read more about them here) or a spirit portal (mirrors, windows, and doorways, for example). They also believe that psychic mediums like myself (read here and read here to better understand my abilities) have a natural capacity to speak and interact with the dead and that anyone can develop this ability through extensive study and practice.

As a Wiccan and spiritualist myself, I believe that a dying person can either choose to cross over into the spirit world after death or they can choose to remain earthbound after death. I also believe that there are earthbound spirits who get stuck in the physical world and are unable to cross over on their own, and they need the guidance of a psychic medium to help them cross over. I've personally guided and encouraged earthbound spirits to cross over into the spirit world. Finally, I believe that reincarnation is also a possibility.

dybmh said:

Also, for those that don't believe, what happens when they die? What are the mechanics of it?

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I don't know.
Though I presume it is much like undergoing anesthesia and never coming out of it.

dybmh said:

What does your faith or belief system teach about the mechanics of death?

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*Thinks of skeletal entities in overalls wielding wrenches, working on corpses in a morgue as if it's a garage.*

Fool said:

Human Brain Still Awake, Even During Deep Sleep

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But not much use to us if we are not aware of such.

ChristineM said:

My view is that of science and the first law of thermodynamics. Here follows a simplified description.

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The three laws of thermodynamics could be used to put the lie to the idea that we're all stars and will live forever (or at least till the end of the world) as star dust reabsorbed into stars. Another poster noted that they now find it "romantic" that they'll be reabsorbed into the dust of the earth from whence they came. But the natural adjunct that they won't really be there to experience it is always there lurking in the darkness.

The three laws of thermodynamics often used by non-theists to justify the romance of turning back into mud, or dust, actually defends theistic faith quite admirably since the laws prove, as most other sciences now do, that there is a meontological reality (a reality outside of physical ontology) that's somehow, though hidden in physical reality, as, or more, real than physical ontology.

The human mind can be, has been (Penrose, Godel, et. al.), proven to be meontological (posses attributes and powers that can't be attributed to physical causation), such that romanticizing about becoming physical dirt at death ignores the nobility of the meontology of the mind therein privileging physical ontology over a reality (meontological) that likely transcends the physical world by orders of magnitude. Which is a way to say don't worry about your body; the mind, a sentient, stable, consciousness, can either find or receive another, or, conceivably, live without it.

The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can't be created or destroyed. Only its physical state ---entropic dynamics---changes.

The second law states that in any closed, finite, system (say the universe) energy always, absolutely always (Einstein emphasized this) careens toward lower states of entropy (less ability for energy to perform work), and never (except by causing entropy loss to increase in another part of space) does entropy ever reverse (toward higher levels of ability to perform work).

But then the third law of thermodynamics is the theism-rendering kicker. According to the third law of thermodynamics, entropy can never reach equilibrium in a finite number (finite, physical, reality) of steps. What this means is that although the second law says entropy always seeks death, heat-death, wants to die, i.e., thermodynamic equilibrium at lower states of entropy (the so-called heat-death), it can never find what it seeks, in a finite (physical) realm.

But that's impossible. How can entropy continue to careen toward equilibrium, the heat death, and never reach it? That's gotta be religious mumbo jumbo!

As all the other science are beginning to tell us (quantum uncertainty, the Aspect proof of communication faster than the speed of light, etc.) the physical world is a sham, a facade, fakery (John 6:63), such that we can only shed tears of concern for those who have sold their soul to a physical god, a physical reality, or their own physicality, ignorant and ignoring the meontological reality that guarantees everlasting, and real, conscious, self-conscious, stable consciousness, life, forever and ever Amen.

Jesus implied everyone has it. But only those who realize it receive it. It knocks at every door, but only those who open the door, not those who peer through the looking glass seeing nothing but the sound of it (the shadow of a whisper), receive it.



John

Ashoka said:

Will there be consciousness? I don't know. A part of me, the atoms that made up who I was will go on existing. But I, as I am now? Probably not. You can't step into the same river twice...or so I believe.

But now it's kind of romantic...like another poster said, my atoms might go to the stars and planets. A part of me will always be there.

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Won't be the consciousness that you have now. But even atoms are conscious in their own way, they are alive.
Yeah, part of what constitutes you (Brahman) will always be there, perhaps in a flower or in a cockroach.

ChristineM said:

I prefer sleep, it's like death but without the long term commitment

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I do not find any problem with dissolution. I am no more there, how does it concern me what my atoms do.

John D. Brey said:

The three laws of thermodynamics could be used to put the lie to the stroking of oneself associated with the non-theistic idea that we're all stars and will live forever (or at least till the end of the world) as star dust reabsorbed into stars.

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D'oh!??

John D. Brey said:

Another poster noted that they now find it "romantic" that they'll be reabsorbed into the dust of the earth from whence they came. But the natural adjunct that they won't really be there to experience it is always there lurking in the darkness.

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Yup when you die you are dead, lack of brain function can do that to a person

John D. Brey said:

The three laws of thermodynamics often used by non-theists to justify the romance of turning back into mud, or dust, actually defends theistic faith quite admirably since the laws prove, as most other sciences now do, that there is a meontological reality (a reality outside of physical ontology) that's somehow, though hidden in physical reality, as, or more, real than physical ontology.

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The laws of thermodynamics are often used because that's how it is.
Science does not deal in woo so that's where i pulled out of the rest of your post

John D. Brey said:

Does Judaism distinguish between the two?

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it's the subject of debate, of course

Taanit 5b:9

YoursTrue said:

Here's my diversity, no debate. Humans wrote a book called the Bible that says why we die.

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Can you direct me to passages that describe the mechanics of what happens when a person dies? Angels? Satan? A heavenly court? Thank you,

Mock Turtle said:

But not much use to us if we are not aware of such.

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the autonomic nervous system runs all the bodily business as usual processes. we're not usually aware of those. you definitely are; when they quit working.

dybmh said:

What does your faith or belief system teach about the mechanics of death?

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I don't know exactly

But whether or not you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour is I believe a factor

Although truth be told I am something of a universalist so I don't think it's quite as simple as all that

Basically: I don't know for sure but my religion has some teachings about this matter although I don't think these are the whole story

dybmh said:

it's the subject of debate, of course

Taanit 5b:9

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And what a debate.
This dialogue appears pretty transparent until we read the next:

What on earth is Rabbi Yitzhak going on about? It's pretty opaque unless our mind drifts to Psalms 87, with emphasis on verse 4. In the context, the text is speaking of the heavenly city of Zion. In verse 4 God says he will "say Rahab" to them who know him. He implies that famous men are associated with the cities of their birth such that a particular man is going to be associated with Zion: Messiah.

Rabbi Nahman says when he says "Rahab" he doesn't experience a seminal emission (as Rabbi Yitzak implies he should). To which Rabbi Yitzak replies that anyone who actually knew Rahab, had seen her, the mention of her name would arouse him to seminal emission (which Rabbi Yitzak is relating to rebirth through "seed"). Rabbi Yitzak is implying, to those who relate Rahab to Psalms 87, that those who see the firstborn son of Zion, actually see him, call on his name (Acts 2:21) will simultaneously experience the Passion associated with the arousal of their own rebirth (Luke 24:39; Matthew 18:20).




John

Until someone can pin down identity in living beings bodies I'm inclined to think a natural soul does exist. So death could be an awakening to a larger reality, or nothing at all.

Much is not known, and a lot is assumed about death and personal identity.

John D. Brey said:

And what a debate.

בָּתַר דִּסְעוּד אֲמַר לֵיהּ, הָכִי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יַעֲקֹב אָבִינוּ לֹא מֵת. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְכִי בִּכְדִי סְפַדוּ סַפְדָּנַיָּא וַחֲנַטוּ חָנְטַיָּיא וּקְבַרוּ קַבָּרַיָּיא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִקְרָא אֲנִי דּוֹרֵשׁ, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְאַתָּה אַל תִּירָא עַבְדִּי יַעֲקֹב נְאֻם ה׳ וְאַל תֵּחַת יִשְׂרָאֵל כִּי הִנְנִי מוֹשִׁיעֲךָ מֵרָחוֹק וְאֶת זַרְעֲךָ מֵאֶרֶץ שִׁבְיָם״, מַקִּישׁ הוּא לְזַרְעוֹ: מָה זַרְעוֹ בַּחַיִּים — אַף הוּא בַּחַיִּים.

After they had eaten, Rabbi Yitzḥak said to Rav Naḥman that Rabbi Yoḥanan said as follows: Our patriarch Jacob did not die. Rav Naḥman asked him in surprise: And was it for naught that the eulogizers eulogized him and the embalmers embalmed him and the buriers buried him? Rabbi Yitzḥak replied to Rav Naḥman: I am interpreting a verse, as it is stated: “Therefore do not fear, Jacob My servant, says the Lord, neither be dismayed, Israel, for I will save you from afar, and your seed from the land of their captivity” (Jeremiah 30:10). This verse juxtaposes Jacob to his seed: Just as his seed is alive when redeemed, so too, Jacob himself is alive.
​

This dialogue appears pretty transparent until we read the next:

אָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק: כׇּל הָאוֹמֵר ״רָחָב״ ״רָחָב״ מִיָּד נִקְרֵי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב נַחְמָן: אֲנָא אָמֵינָא וְלָא אִיכְפַּת לִי! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: כִּי קָאָמֵינָא, בְּיוֹדְעָהּ וּבְמַכִּירָהּ.

Rabbi Yitzḥak said: Anyone who says: Rahab Rahab, immediately experiences a seminal emission, due to the arousal of desire caused by Rahab’s great beauty. Rav Naḥman said to him: I say Rahab and it does not affect me. Rabbi Yitzḥak said to Rav Naḥman: When I said this I was specifically referring to a man who knew her and to one who recognized her. With regard to anyone who had met Rahab in person, the mere mention of her name would arouse his lust.​

What on earth is Rabbi Yitzhak going on about? It's pretty opaque unless our mind drifts to Psalms 87, with emphasis on verse 4. In the context, the text is speaking of the heavenly city of Zion. In verse 4 God says he will "say Rahab" to them who know him. He implies that famous men are associated with the cities of their birth such that a particular man is going to be associated with Zion: Messiah.

Rabbi Nahman says when he says "Rahab" he doesn't experience a seminal emission (as Rabbi Yitzak implies he should). To which Rabbi Yitzak replies that anyone who actually knew Rahab, had seen her, the mention of her name would arouse him to seminal emission (which Rabbi Yitzak is relating to rebirth through "seed"). Rabbi Yitzak is implying, to those who relate Rahab to Psalms 87, that those who see the firstborn son of Zion, actually see him, call on his name (Acts 2:21) will simultaneously experience the Passion associated with the arousal of their own rebirth (Luke 24:39; Matthew 18:20).




John

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Super creative.... super off-topic. But start a thread about it and we can talk about it.

Fool said:

the autonomic nervous system runs all the bodily business as usual processes. we're not usually aware of those. you definitely are; when they quit working.

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If one isn't conscious, one hasn't anything, unless such a state changes. But then I don't accept the soul or similar as having any relevance to humans - unlike yourself perhaps. I know that the brain functions even when we are not conscious, but death will be the same as being unconscious - that is, no recovery from such.