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Can All Roads Lead to God?

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That is not history. It is legend at best. History consists of events that actually happened.
I'm sure there are those that would agree with you, just as there are those that would agree with the imaginings of the theory of evolution. The details and history in the Bible are helpful to understand, even if you don't believe it. Joshua said there were other gods, he knew that, just as the history reveals that the Israelites were surrounded by nations that had other gods.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Please try to make a coherent argument. Right now you are making a "So what?" argument.
Zygotes don't think, do scientists think, believe, or imagine they do? Here's the reason I ask--you obviously think. But zygotes don't think, at least I don't think they do, reasoning on matters, the brains are not developed. :) Not much in the brain area, lol, there when someone is a zygote. But now -- you think.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm sure there are those that would agree with you, just as there are those that would agree with the imaginings of the theory of evolution. The details and history in the Bible are helpful to understand, even if you don't believe it. Joshua said there were other gods, he knew that, just as the history reveals that the Israelites were surrounded by nations that had other gods.
Wow. I sometimes doubt that people like you are actually Christians. It is amazing how you are willing to make false claims about others.

And you really should study the history of the Bible a bit. I know that most Christians do not because it becomes very difficult for some to remain Christian after they know where their holy book came from.

As a Christian it is better to focus on Jesus and what he taught instead of the mythology of the Old Testament.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thank you for the correct quote.
I definitely agree that people come to God from a wide variety of places and I also understand that each person’s journey is unique. Yet, I think if there is a specific Creator God (which I believe there is) then this God would have and provide the specific way, direction, or door through which He may be reached so those seeking don’t get lost, confused, disoriented, or fall off a cliff.
They each imagine that one God, that single bright moon, in specific terms to their ways of thinking too. To them their idea of a specific God, represents that single bright moon to them. There is in reality, only one moon in the sky, or only one God as it were. But each village on the different sides of that mountain looking up have different ways of thinking and speaking about that single moon from the perspective of their different cultures, language and traditions.

I agree that there are certain common ways that must be followed to reach the summit of that mountain. Every traveler must bring proper provisions for the journey. Wear proper footwear for the climb. Wear proper protective clothing, and so forth. You can't go ill-prepared on this journey up the slopes. And so no matter what culture, what traditions, what legends of the great moon in the sky you tell yourself and your children, each has to be able to make that climb with the same types of provisions.

If someone imagines that because someone on the other side of that mountain calls the moon by another name than they do, that they aren't actually going to the same summit that they are, the need only look and see that they are in fact climbing up the slope exactly the same as them.

It becomes more and more obvious that they are, the closer to the peak they get, and the closer and closer to each other that they are, to where they can see the whites of their eyes just across the way from them. Then they know they have the same destination and goal in mind as they themselves do.

Then finally at the peak, when they see them face to face, they realize they were talking about the same moon all along. Unlike the villagers at the bottom of the mountain, who imagine they worship a different moon from those other villagers down the road from them who speak a different language.

Those at the top now know that was only what they imagined in their ignorance, not having yet climbed to the top where they could see for themselves the truth.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Zygotes don't think, do scientists think, believe, or imagine they do? Here's the reason I ask--you obviously think. But zygotes don't think, at least I don't think they do, reasoning on matters, the brains are not developed. :) Not much in the brain area, lol, there when someone is a zygote. But now -- you think.
Yes, thought is an emergent process. It does not appear to be due to magic.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
When we say that hinduism is polytheistic, that viewpoint is already throwing us onto the wrong track.

Even the whole concept of idolatry in the bible is wrong. Religions, such as the egyptian religion, don't have the followers worshipping the idols as if manmade objects in and of themselves have power. They believed that part of the God manifested in the object, so they worshipped the manifestation of the god at certain points but knew that the idol itself has no power of its own. The idol wasnt alive but it was just a vessel for the god. I think that the same is true in hinduism.
You are not basically incorrect about Hinduism, except when you generalize and say that Hinduism is not polytheistic. Generalizations do not work in Hinduism. The majority of Hindus are polytheists. Hinduism has all kinds of 'isms', and leaves it for the adherent to choose what he/she likes.

An Idol is only a mark, the target is something else, just like giving a name YHWH, Allah or God. The various names given by humans to deities also are pointers. Considering the idol alive and treating it like that, makes the idea more comforting to the worshiper. It is a psychological thing.
 
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osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The moment you invoke God it's going to be some human definition of what perfect being ought to be. To claim to know God is to claim that one knows perfection. If God exists no one knows God, and the only perfection they have is their own version of God.

Every different road leads to a different destination. While I see and have faith that there are universal truths, I don't see any God reflected in nature. Nature has always been savage with no sign of heavenly perfection in it. If life were meant to be then there would be harmony in the natural world and no one would have to be the hunter nor the prey. There'd be no food chain. There'd be no struggle to exist.

God is not the obvious answer looking closely at the natural world. Last time I checked most people have to eat other living creatures to survive; so God's creation is severely lacking.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Wow. I sometimes doubt that people like you are actually Christians. It is amazing how you are willing to make false claims about others.

And you really should study the history of the Bible a bit. I know that most Christians do not because it becomes very difficult for some to remain Christian after they know where their holy book came from.

As a Christian it is better to focus on Jesus and what he taught instead of the mythology of the Old Testament.
Want to go back to the theories/conjectures/suppositions about abiogenesis and the appearance of life on the earth? Jesus spoke of what Moses wrote and also Noah as true. But let's go back to the theories of evolution, standard or not, shall we?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The moment you invoke God it's going to be some human definition of what perfect being ought to be. To claim to know God is to claim that one knows perfection. If God exists no one knows God, and the only perfection they have is their own version of God.

Every different road leads to a different destination. While I see and have faith that there are universal truths, I don't see any God reflected in nature. Nature has always been savage with no sign of heavenly perfection in it. If life were meant to be then there would be harmony in the natural world and no one would have to be the hunter nor the prey. There'd be no food chain. There'd be no struggle to exist.

God is not the obvious answer looking closely at the natural world. Last time I checked most people have to eat other living creatures to survive; so God's creation is severely lacking.
Some things make more sense than others to me. When you say other living creatures, I assume you're speaking of other fleshly organisms rather than fruits and vegetables?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Want to go back to the theories/conjectures/suppositions about abiogenesis and the appearance of life on the earth? Jesus spoke of what Moses wrote and also Noah as true. But let's go back to the theories of evolution, standard or not, shall we?
LOL!! Now you are saying that Jesus was just a man. Oh my.

We knew that the Noah's Ark story was a myth even before the Adam and Eve myth was debunked. And the Noah's Ark myth was debunked by Christians.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, thought is an emergent process. It does not appear to be due to magic.
Tell me what you think: gorillas for instance, supposedly one of the organisms stemming (oh, evolving) from an "Unknown Common Ancestor" aligned with humans also, do not think like humans, do they? In include with that bonobos, chimpanzees, etc.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Tell me what you think: gorillas for instance, supposedly one of the organisms stemming (oh, evolving) from an "Unknown Common Ancestor" aligned with humans also, do not think like humans, do they? In include with that bonobos, chimpanzees, etc.

Still waiting for an answer, YT. What level of formal science education have you achieved?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
LOL!! Now you are saying that Jesus was just a man. Oh my.

We knew that the Noah's Ark story was a myth even before the Adam and Eve myth was debunked. And the Noah's Ark myth was debunked by Christians.
Jesus spoke of it. Jesus was a man, by the way. He believed what God, his heavenly father, taught him. He spoke of the last days of life on this earth as we know it now and historically, as being like the "days of Noah." Matthew chapter 24 describes this quite well.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Tell me what you think: gorillas for instance, supposedly one of the organisms stemming (oh, evolving) from an "Unknown Common Ancestor" aligned with humans also, do not think like humans, do they? In include with that bonobos, chimpanzees, etc.
Why would they? Why would you expect different species to have the exact same thoughts? Not even people have the exact same thoughts. There are similarities in our thought processes. So much so that though gorillas cannot talk due to anatomical differences, they can and have learned American Sign Language.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Jesus spoke of it. Jesus was a man, by the way. He believed what God, his heavenly father, taught him. He spoke of the last days of life on this earth as we know it now and historically, as being like the "days of Noah." Matthew chapter 24 describes this quite well.
You don't have to tell me about the Bible. I used to be a Christian. And may understand it better than you do. Yes, Jesus said that. Jesus also used all sorts of literary tools. So he could have been saying something like "She is as old as the hills." Now if someone says that that person is clearly not lying. He or she is simply using metaphor to indicate a great age. Why couldn't Jesus have been using metaphor? Or are you going back to your belief that God is a liar?
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Some things make more sense than others to me. When you say other living creatures, I assume you're speaking of other fleshly organisms rather than fruits and vegetables?

Yes, we eat other fleshly organisms for protein. That's right. I wouldn't call that divine.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Tell me what you think: gorillas for instance, supposedly one of the organisms stemming (oh, evolving) from an "Unknown Common Ancestor" aligned with humans also, do not think like humans, do they? In include with that bonobos, chimpanzees, etc.
FYI, there is no basic difference between our thinking and those of apes and chimps. Food, sex are important for them (and to other animals as well), they are important for us also. That is how evolution works for survival of species.
Some things make more sense than others to me. When you say other living creatures, I assume you're speaking of other fleshly organisms rather than fruits and vegetables?
It is difficult to live just on leaves, fruits and veg. We will have to eat 10 times than what we eat now to get the necessary proteins, and that is what many herbivores do, eat prodigious amounts of what they eat. All their time is consumed in that. Eating flesh freed more time to us. Nuts, beans and legumes also have better protein value, grains are a bit low on that.
 
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