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Mark 4:38 Jesus slept?

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Hopefully this is an easy one for Christians and believers in Christ:

In Mark 4, Jesus is on a boat in a storm after preaching to the crowds that gathered. The story describes his disciples waking him from sleeping in the boat. If Jesus is the Lord, why does he need to sleep?

Psalms 121:2-5
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Great question. The question concerns the Divinity of Christ.

There are scriptures such as Mark 4:28 that make Jesus being God incarnate improbable.

1 John 4:12
"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

1 KIng 8:27
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Scripture seems to imply that Jesus can not possibly be God incarnate.

Perhaps it would be better to think of Jesus as being a perfect image or reflection of Gods' divine attributes?

Colossians 1:15 in regards to Jesus
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 8:28
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So in this manner Moses also speaks as God

Deuteronomy 29:2-6

So it could be argued Moses is to the Jews what Jesus has become to the Christians. Although the language is different Moses was the salvation for the Hebrew people, both physically and spiritually.

I will be intersted in what Christians have to say.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Great question. The question concerns the Divinity of Christ.
Ah, a great question for Bahais to pounce on Christian beliefs!
What is wrong with that? When a God appears in a human form, he does all what humans do. Eat, sleep, ****, obey elders, marries, raises children, dies.
That is called 'leela'.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
If Jesus is the Lord, why does he need to sleep?
Because although he is fully divine he is also fully human (in my opinion)

Jesus of Nazareth was God incarnate, God in the flesh (in my opinion)

The Lord occupied a meat-suit just as you and I do, that is the means through which he interacted with humankind, via a human body (in my opinion)

And in order to function, a meat-suit needs to sleep
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Hopefully this is an easy one for Christians and believers in Christ:

In Mark 4, Jesus is on a boat in a storm after preaching to the crowds that gathered. The story describes his disciples waking him from sleeping in the boat. If Jesus is the Lord, why does he need to sleep?

Psalms 121:2-5
Because the incarnate Son was both human and divine in one miraculous personality. He came to experience the life of one of his own created human beings all while subject to the will of the Father. When he was tired, he slept, when he was thirsty, he drank, when he was sad, he cried etc.

The Universal Father delegates power and authority in his sons.

IMOP
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Hopefully this is an easy one for Christians and believers in Christ:

In Mark 4, Jesus is on a boat in a storm after preaching to the crowds that gathered. The story describes his disciples waking him from sleeping in the boat. If Jesus is the Lord, why does he need to sleep?

Psalms 121:2-5

That is a short question that has a very long answer - but here is the short of it.

The purpose of The Word becoming flesh is to redeem His prized possession, mankind. But to redeem mankind He must come in legally. John 10:7-10.

The world was given to mankind. Genesis 1:26. For The Word to come into the world, He had to come into the world legally which would be through a woman. As declared Genesis 3:15 - it is man that has seed but the seed (singular) came through the woman - The Word. Galatians 3:16

It was Adam (completely man) that gave man's authority to the thief. It had to be a complete man that fought and gained it back to make alive our spirits unto God. 1 Corinthians 15:45.

To come as a man, He had to be completely man. passage

And, thus, He slept. :) And ate. And suffered. And died. But resurrected defeating death, hell and the grave so that humanity could reunite with their Creator.

As a side note, if you can sleep during your storm, you have authority over your storm.
 
Last edited:

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
It's a pretty good question. When you think of it, the need to sleep is sort of a mild, to severe, form of suffering. In the new testament case, god didn't seem averse to letting jesus suffer whatever there was to be suffered.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
It's the "fully divine" part which continues to confuse me in this matter.
He began as a thing called The Word - a fully divine being who was not at all human until the incarnation

The Word became Jesus and pre-dates Jesus

Basically, God wanted to make The Word into a human and the result was Jesus
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Thanks everybody :)

I haven't seen any comments addressing Psalm 121. Is it a simple matter that King David ( or the author of this psalm ) did not know about God's future plan? Is it understandable for someone familiar with this Psalm to be confused?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Ah, a great question for Bahais to pounce on Christian beliefs!
What is wrong with that? When a God appears in a human form, he does all what humans do. Eat, sleep, ****, obey elders, marries, raises children, dies.
That is called 'leela'.

Good answer.

To empathize with anyone, one needs to to walk a mile in their shoes. From that experience of empathy, one will better know why that person will do as they do. Jesus had to have human limitations imposed, so he could walk a mile in human shoes, so when he was resurrected he could then intercede for humans, based on his first hand experience of their needs.

An analogy is having many children, with some very dutiful and others not so much. You would like to push all the children to the max for success, but some are not keeping up. Do you get mad at the slackers and be happy with the doers? Or do you try to empathize with the slackers, to see why this is happening? In terms of further limitations, Jesus often hung with the sinners who were often the slackers of the law. Jesus was curious as to why law did not work for them.

In doing so, he found the so-called sinners, were basically good people but it was not in their nature to be overly structured by petty law. This was not so much a conscious disregard of the law, but an innate inertia to go in different directions; victimless crimes.

Like in the case of empathizing with the slacker child, the father learns that this child of God, is more designed to be an artist, than a hard working farmer, so he accepts him as he is. But to do so, he needs to change the rules; law, into guide lines, that offer flexibility to maximize each person. He leaves behind the spirit of truth and the forgiveness of sins so each find their true self.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
I haven't seen any comments addressing Psalm 121
Have just looked up that Psalm.....

In Christianity, The Lord is more than one person :D

So when Jesus slept, God The Father, and The Holy Spirit were both very much awake

Hence Jesus can be Lord, Jesus can sleep, and that Psalm can be true - all at the same time!
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Have just looked up that Psalm.....

In Christianity, The Lord is more than one person :D

So when Jesus slept, God The Father, and The Holy Spirit were both very much awake

Hence Jesus can be Lord, Jesus can sleep, and that Psalm can be true - all at the same time!
Thanks Ed, I'll try to remember that.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Thanks everybody :)

I haven't seen any comments addressing Psalm 121. Is it a simple matter that King David ( or the author of this psalm ) did not know about God's future plan? Is it understandable for someone familiar with this Psalm to be confused?
As The Word or the Godhead, being in eternity, He didn't need to slumber or sleep nor does He.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Hopefully this is an easy one for Christians and believers in Christ:

In Mark 4, Jesus is on a boat in a storm after preaching to the crowds that gathered. The story describes his disciples waking him from sleeping in the boat. If Jesus is the Lord, why does he need to sleep?

Psalms 121:2-5
He slept, he felt pain, he got hungry, he got tired and thirsty.... He experienced everything we experience, because he was fully human.
 

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
He slept, he felt pain, he got hungry, he got tired and thirsty.... He experienced everything we experience, because he was fully human.
Yes.
Jesus is also a "son of God" .. meaning chosen by God .. especially blessed by God ..extremely devoted to God.
His disciples believed him to be the promised messiah.

Jesus taught us the Lord's prayer "Our Father, whom art in heaven, hallowed be thy name..."

There were many creeds that emerged in the early days. The issue of his divinity was strongly contested,
and one creed became victorious in the Roman Empire. i.e. the Roman Catholic creed
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Yes.
Jesus is also a "son of God" .. meaning chosen by God .. especially blessed by God ..extremely devoted to God.
His disciples believed him to be the promised messiah.

Jesus taught us the Lord's prayer "Our Father, whom art in heaven, hallowed be thy name..."

There were many creeds that emerged in the early days. The issue of his divinity was strongly contested,
and one creed became victorious in the Roman Empire. i.e. the Roman Catholic creed
Oh I believe in his divinity. But he had to be fully human also, in order to save humans from their sins.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
I haven't seen any comments addressing Psalm 121.

Well they might connect it to that, by correlating to the idea that they wouldn't 'rest well.' Getting woken up when you are slumbering or sleeping on boat, went against the wish he might have had, to slumber or sleep. I don't know what king james means by 'he will not suffer thy foot to be moved,' though. When ones feet are moving, one is in action.

In any case, the verse you should add in, is the one where he is a 'drunkard and a glutton.' I say this, because I cannot possibly see how he could be those things, without sometimes inducing heavy sleep on himself.
 
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