Free speech for all. It's not like he's going to start a riot or anything. Him and his fans are more like hippies and New Agers. I guess the real threat is he might cause some people to think and question things a lot more. Can't have that.
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Dutch Government censors David Icke (not allowed to come to Holland)
- Thread starter stvdv
- Start date
A wonderful tune for the opening of Fargo.
It bespeaks the bleakness & expanding tragedy.
(It's based on a Norwegian hymn, The Lost Sheep.)
It bespeaks the bleakness & expanding tragedy.
(It's based on a Norwegian hymn, The Lost Sheep.)
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
How many communists does America allow in to convert people to communism.
We have open commies all over the place, including Marxists professors all over academia. We obviously don't enforce such ideological laws anymore.
I agree, but Holland lacks our freedom of speech.
So censoring this loony there makes sense...for them.
Does the Vatican allow him to come onto the grounds and do this speaking?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Those old PSAs lied. A frying egg in a skillet isn't your brain on drugs, it's that when your brain is on whatever he's got.
I have no problem with the Dutch telling Icke he's unwelcome there. That's free expression as well: go away!
My position on free speech is evolving with the times, especially in America. Before the Internet, a person was only dangerous if he were something like a demagoguing US Senator or a fascistic celebrity aviator. The voices of reason outnumbered them and successfully contained them with speech of their own.
Also, people were more fit to be members of a democracy - better educated, better news sources - and subject to much less indoctrination.
Now, I don't trust free speech. Look at what Trump did with it. And Bannon. Both extremely destructive.
I have no answers - it already might be too late to prevent disaster with or without free speech - and I understand the potential danger of reining in speech, but right now, free speech poses an existential threat, a clear and present danger, and the notion that I may not agree with you, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to speak doesn't make sense anymore. Yet, the Republicans are coming, and in their hands, censoring will be harmful to democracy.
I just read this, which reinforces my view. Musk promotes what he calls absolute free speech. This must be what he means:
"Musk didn’t wait long to start spreading his lies. One of his first despicable acts was to promote the provable lie that Paul Pelosi’s attacker was really his gay lover. Since we already know who Pelosi’s attacker really is and the real reason why he was there — to serve his MAGA master Donald Trump with typically glassy-eyed obeisance — Musk's promotion of the lie wasn’t just irresponsible, it was hateful. “Reality,” as NBC News senior reporter Ben Collins puts it, “cannot exist anymore because it cannot catch up with lies on the internet."
Something needs to change. Congratulations to the Dutch government regarding Icke. Of course, he's got Twitter now.
My position on free speech is evolving with the times, especially in America. Before the Internet, a person was only dangerous if he were something like a demagoguing US Senator or a fascistic celebrity aviator. The voices of reason outnumbered them and successfully contained them with speech of their own.
Also, people were more fit to be members of a democracy - better educated, better news sources - and subject to much less indoctrination.
Now, I don't trust free speech. Look at what Trump did with it. And Bannon. Both extremely destructive.
I have no answers - it already might be too late to prevent disaster with or without free speech - and I understand the potential danger of reining in speech, but right now, free speech poses an existential threat, a clear and present danger, and the notion that I may not agree with you, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to speak doesn't make sense anymore. Yet, the Republicans are coming, and in their hands, censoring will be harmful to democracy.
I just read this, which reinforces my view. Musk promotes what he calls absolute free speech. This must be what he means:
"Musk didn’t wait long to start spreading his lies. One of his first despicable acts was to promote the provable lie that Paul Pelosi’s attacker was really his gay lover. Since we already know who Pelosi’s attacker really is and the real reason why he was there — to serve his MAGA master Donald Trump with typically glassy-eyed obeisance — Musk's promotion of the lie wasn’t just irresponsible, it was hateful. “Reality,” as NBC News senior reporter Ben Collins puts it, “cannot exist anymore because it cannot catch up with lies on the internet."
Something needs to change. Congratulations to the Dutch government regarding Icke. Of course, he's got Twitter now.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
That has been proven to be false
Altfish
Veteran Member
The anti-semitism is pretty much nailed on, Holocaust denial less so. But read any Jewish publication and they have no doubt.
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
That is superbly put.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I have good proof that Icke is not anti Semitic, but it's a Dutch site, starting with Dutch, even while continuing in English with the proof. I shared such (English with 5sec Dutch intro) info before, but I was told that this is not allowed to post on RF
But bottom line is "We have always had freedom of speech, only this time they ban someone to share his beliefs"
I remember many people on RF used to say "I don't agree with your beliefs, but I will protect your right to express them (in word) till I die"
Since Corona + brainwashing by government, there is little left on RF with "... protect your right to share your beliefs (a.k.a. free speech)"
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Subtitles indeed are convenient here
This is mainstream media, who twist here many facts in this youtube, clearly to spread misinformation.
So, thanks for sharing, another good proof that I can't trust Dutch mainstream media. This is really a sneaky and low interview, twisting quite a few things of for example Thierry Baudet about reptiles; wow, the best interview to prove mainstream media spreads disinformation
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Only for @Estro Felino: Here is proof that Icke is not Antisemetic (wait ca. 5 sec to get the part subtitled in clear English proof)May I kindly know what Antisemitism has to do with Icke's books?
Thanks in advance.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ahY-Yg1o9Ic
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
You fail to see what really happens here in the Netherlands
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Exactly
Sadly that is the case, the government won't allow that
Well to be fair I don’t live there.
But no one is owed free passage to anywhere in the world. No one is owed a platform. You can say whatever you please, but no country owes you a platform to say it on all the same.
Crying free speech whenever consequences happen shows a fundamental lack of respect for what free speech actually means, not to mention a shallow appreciation for it
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Governments and presidents abuse free speech and set the wrong example. From here it goes downwards
First start cleaning up those in charge, alas they are too sick to be cured, so indeed too late probably
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Again you miss my point