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Does God Make Mistakes?

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I agree. An all knowing God would have known that the descendants of Noah would have turned out no better than the original bunch, which goes directly to the question in the OP. Does God make mistakes? Despite all the wriggling by theists, I think it's pretty obvious that, according to this particular story, the answer is "yes". And it also calls into question other supposed "omni" features of God, like omniscience.

I like looking at the whole of the story and not just a portion of the story. :) One can miss the story-line... like a "who done it" mystery that you think one thing but the end isn't what you would thought it be. :)

So, if I look "at this particular chapter" one would say "yes". But the "omni" feature of God had it all figured out from the beginning... at least as I read the whole of the book (and not just that one story) :)

There's a too often quoted definition of insanity, which is repeating the same actions and expecting a different result. I'm not too fond of that saying as it's too simplistic by far, and I would never <cough> accuse God of being insane <glances nervously at an approaching cloud>, but some explanation is needed as to why God didn't revamp the design.

But He did! But you said:

no let's not start a new line of discussion,

:)
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
I like looking at the whole of the story and not just a portion of the story. :) One can miss the story-line... like a "who done it" mystery that you think one thing but the end isn't what you would thought it be. :)

I hope you aren't saying that the Bible is written to be deliberately misleading (until the reveal at the end of course) like a detective novel!

So, if I look "at this particular chapter" one would say "yes". But the "omni" feature of God had it all figured out from the beginning... at least as I read the whole of the book (and not just that one story) :)

And here we go with the problem of evil again ... :eek:

But He did! But you said:



:)

Oh go then. You've intrigued me. How were humans post flood different from humans pre flood? As I recall, after the flood Noah just planted a vineyard and sat around drinking while the world was rebuilt. (Not a bad idea actually, after all he lived 350 years. I'm testing that idea myself).
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Once no creation of anything existed.

Hence theorising is fake.

How a human knows is because humans named ground substances. Named all things living with them.

Pretended my human words explained why everything existed outright lying.

Then they went about attacking ground substances what they walked on...then caused creation to attack our life.

All things got attacked.

So we live with innate constant human liars.

I can quote from hurt life experience the creator didn't lovingly cause it.

So it could only be a mistake if any human quotes a loving being is the highest being. And a loving being does no harm.

To then quote another reasoning how and why a loving pre existed had always existed body decided to change its owned presence.

To thesis a thought concept the body owns a hole in it named space. Space existed as what it once was got burnt. And what it once was first hadn't been burning.

So my brother told me he inferred space as the womb of its creator that had always existed the eternal type.

He then said logic by my realisation it was a language spirit communicator that got bodily separated.

That to observe what you weren't meant.
1 eternal mass not changed
2 eternal spirit living inside.
3 language spirit that arose out of surrounds disappeared.

Position I'm inquisitive. I'll hold it to look at it.

O how to hold it.
O why it was forced backwards.
O moved away into stretch.
Burst burnt turned the womb of separation.

Gods O became it's babies bodies.

Is quite acceptable as a teaching in my belief.

As I'm a human. I don't lie. I love honour respect all things. I don't believe in destroying and it makes me cry to think other humans do.

Is why I say the creator very loving made a mistake.

Secondly as my parents came from it into the heavens.

My baby brother self idolator mind gone proves he lied. As he had not returned as a human baby man into the eternal. He remembered only where our parents came from...he was born by sex.

Clouds however existed.
He burnt the clouds made them fall...clouds still existed. Clouds just remassed above.

Water below cooled the burning gases did not return into a clouds form.

It evaporated to make the gas cold gas.

Clouds are eternal hell and were never ever any human man.

As a monkey can live exist as the monkey when a man dies. If all humans died monkeys having sex would still live.

As all the proof a lying human owns to say why you were never a cloud satanic scientist.
.
rational experiences "Your belief is not mine or the worlds"! You have faith you are right the world is wrong... So What?!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
I say God does NOT make mistakes!
Noah and his family were saved, that is exactly what God wanted in the first place! With Noah we all have a new beginning! Noah was descendent of Adam thus Adams linage carried on!
Because of the flood we can trace our linage back to Adam our father! All are born of Adam; all are born corrupted!
Genesis 5:1
This is the written account of Adam’s family line.
When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.
3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image
;... etc

Because of the flood we are now here today! God' ways are not our ways!
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
.
rational experiences "Your belief is not mine or the worlds"! You have faith you are right the world is wrong... So What?!
I'm a natural human.

Not a greedy human who makes choices including science based on humans immorality. History and story of.

So when I think I think about natural life not self gain by science and power.

Hence my thinking is rational.

As any human as the human can say once created creation hadn't existed. It's because you removed it by machine causes. As you were taught.

As a human as science only.

Therefore it only does first exist in its quantified first form highest for science practice. Science.

If humans want to qualify as being spiritual and incorrect then proving we own another story or way of thinking not science is only our choice as it says so. Thinking.

As only exact living thinking we are all humans argue. Machine science prices machine science only.

Choice...behaviour motivated reasons.

It doesn't prove anything else.

As man began thesis by transmitted visions in clouds to design science.

Why thinking living man says science began on transmitter advice.

Using self explained human presence in most topics without even reasoning you are.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I say God does NOT make mistakes!
Noah and his family were saved, that is exactly what God wanted in the first place! With Noah we all have a new beginning! Noah was descendent of Adam thus Adams linage carried on!
Because of the flood we can trace our linage back to Adam our father! All are born of Adam; all are born corrupted!
Genesis 5:1
This is the written account of Adam’s family line.
When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.
3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image
;... etc

Because of the flood we are now here today! God' ways are not our ways!
Using he his his quotes in thin king a man.

Terms I'm a man by penis status only...as nature trees aren't biology like my own. Can't be inferred a God man status. My owned image. Confessed he was talking about himself via him the self.

He him his theist status I'm thinking as a man about all terms first that I'm informed by.

So all firsts are one special type itself. Origin to its type. Highest as it's formed as it's type. A man's thinking teaching to his own man self

The theist.

As natural aware thought is only survival displaced thoughts about Mr know it all pursuit to know it all.

Hence event was finished. All attacks had been caused before you rewrite outcomes after.

As first was design whilst living in. Wooded nature. About science machine then reaction.

Ignored as the relativity story was about life was attacked evicted out of origin genetics as big bang reactions did it.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If a man human expected to still be living after a machine reaction.

His belief if O shift time...which is by mass only as light is constant.

Then a huge reaction will change me but I knew I'd still exist after.

Talks about himself one man baby man. Wasn't inferring his origin human parents as non scientist.

As proof he did it. Self idolator.

Which means I knew I began from microbial human bodies. I tried to destroy my two adult parent lives.

As he had his mind altered into self bio destruction advice. By fallen star.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Love is putting the other first!
God IS Love!
Jesus loved the world so much he gave himself completely to us from the cross! The Cross is a symbol of Love! A man without love is God-Less!

First you didn't address one single point I made. Yahweh shows actions in the OT that have nothing to do with love. They are the opposite of love.
In the NT people are threatened with eternal flame. This is also not love. Eternal punishment for non-belief? Whatever it is it is not love.
So you have not explained why a God you are claiming to be love is acting like an angry, hate ridden monster?

As far as the cross, many many men have sacrificed their lives for friends in battle and in other situations. Jesus didn't die, he was resurrected in the story. So that isn't a sacrifice. But love doesn't require any family members to die for looking at the neighbors wife or having a graven image.

Love is about making mistakes, learning, forgiveness and growing from the experience. Not killing your child to get rid of the sin or torture on a cross. That is a ridiculous notion.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
What if after good way is shown, people still are evil and violent and reject God's guidance? Should God allow people to make life eternal hellish suffering for all?


Is love not patient? Unconditional? People in institutions who are mentally ill and continue to display bad behavior when they are released, after so many tries should they just all be drowned?
Or do you kill the entire world, all the babies, women, children. All those mothers raising many children, you think they were evil?
It says one plague that killed 70,000 was for a census. A deity that can't get people to act civil? No, the OT isn't big on love, neither is the NT with hell for non-believers.

But many people have made life eternal hellish suffering for all? How many dictators committed terrible acts on their people? Many. Right now one man is causing terrible suffering.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If man a human says to his brothers I'm a man you're a man. Man did wrong in reference to gods laws. Gods laws have to be pondered theoried taught by humans to humans only.

I'm now punished.

Is he wrong?

No.

If he says man was innocent of evil thoughts.

Is he wrong?

No.

If he said I'm innocent so is humanity of evil was he correct?

Yes.

Did he say don't follow me as self idolisation is one of man's faults.

And then said if you do want to believe in Sacrifice of innocent human life..yet agree. You'll find out about our holy fathers true man history yourselves.

Not the baby man self idolators story whose wrong. The criminal terms of Jesus.

Have you heeded your own mans human only theories and outcomes of causes for doing evil?

No.

Destroying gods body presence as all highest chemical dusts as gods flesh and holy. Created bodies.

You've completely ignored the relevance that man teachers as innocent babies was whose mother told them why.

Before and now.

They had self idolated first by inhumane titled man behaviours kings and lords trade technologies.

Kings usurped king's in their own family murdered and over ruled. Rich king's became poor king's now mutual family members also. Learnt.

Ignored very bad human behaviours...hypocritical of family.

The teaching right in front of you ignored as you do still self idolate the very reason why.

You dont govern like a families trade business for family. It's about self or organisational greed.

Yet a rich man said I had to remain a greedy man to fight greedy men is the Hypocrite teaching.

Exactly taught why. Do t self idolate or think you are a God. You are just a human man. It's why bio life was sacrificed.

Mother of God laws of man's science claimed saved the sacrificing body by vacuum voiding the burning with holy birth waters. Is a scientists teaching.

As light is constant it never owned a number.

12 of a day was the same as 12 months one year as a day...light is constant not 12.

If you see suns caused UFO mass body it came before gas was alight. It's still here in the presence of light...you can never know it as it's in the presence of light.

Your satanic scientists theists warning you don't know evil.
.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Is love not patient? Unconditional? ... ...No, the OT isn't big on love, neither is the NT with hell for non-believers.
...

Why do you think OT is about hell for non-believers? I think the whole Bible is basically about, righteous to eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

And I think God is extremely patient, otherwise we would not exist at all.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
First you didn't address one single point I made. Yahweh shows actions in the OT that have nothing to do with love. They are the opposite of love.
In the NT people are threatened with eternal flame. This is also not love. Eternal punishment for non-belief? Whatever it is it is not love.
So you have not explained why a God you are claiming to be love is acting like an angry, hate ridden monster?

As far as the cross, many many men have sacrificed their lives for friends in battle and in other situations. Jesus didn't die, he was resurrected in the story. So that isn't a sacrifice. But love doesn't require any family members to die for looking at the neighbors wife or having a graven image.

Love is about making mistakes, learning, forgiveness and growing from the experience. Not killing your child to get rid of the sin or torture on a cross. That is a ridiculous notion.
Sin is not loving!
Is it a sin to toss a rock through your neighbor's window? YES!
Is it a loving act to toss a rock through your neighbor's window? NO!

All sins are actions against God... God is LOVE!
 

Gezellig

Member
If we assume that God created everything and supports it with His power and wisdom, then no. Theories of the random appearance of the Universe (the Big Bang or something similar) in my opinion, on the contrary, work against themselves. Because randomness is a relative of error. Is it possible for such an incomprehensible mechanism as the Universe to work if there would be errors in it? As a closer example, our planet. Its trajectory, angle of inclination, speed are only a small part of its parameters. What would happen to her if there were errors in fractions of seconds, degrees?
The flood is God's reaction to the actions of people. God created people with freedom of choice, if it were not so, then it would not be people.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Every one is one species dominion the human.

A human is a sexual being by two.

So if any lying theist just a human by sexual identity tried to pretend a one sex human....... humans sexuality would be observed changing destroyed.

To thesis a human..as what is a human but defined by sex?

You'd ask what is a human without sexual identification?

No man is God law. Reason it was stated. God is rock and without rocks presence no human exists. You cannot thesis cosmic...mother of God infinity.

As one as mass carbon mass planetoid are all stopped mass in deep space infinity zeros in space. The one with infinity zeros.

So you'd ask why was Jesus image of man human in cloud holy and important? As the presence in clouds above that saved us. Holy Jesus portion.

As first man's theist head brain to be theist was prickled by burning gas fall lied. About Phi. As it ended above just as clouds and images only. From small star mass attack.

Phi by head terms only thought theories.

Design. Images. Hologram position only.

Okay.... so criminal Phi Jesus the man king lord temple theist attacked all life on earth by crop Phi fallout...then it stopped?

Yes.

Holy Jesus was only a man image in clouds above us. Not a circle design.

Was never biological man on ground who by science temple was first cult practice group..opened sin K holes caves etc. Gods earth mass flesh entombed as mass had left. As he'd emptied it out by sun thesis evils.

Yes the exact evil criminal Jesus man...the sciences. Evil king lords terms.

Versus cloud mass above us just image kept biology safe...is no machine position.

Men of science brought suns dust machine nuclear mass forward. Above our heads...ark attack. The chariot that killed most life.

In huge upper storms hurricanes tornados lightning mass ground strikes. It's all in ancient human cities as healthy life memory. Attacked.

Holographic visions.

No science for a long time just mutant humans. Genesis left biology. So holy Jesus cloud images emerged cooling. A teaching only...cloud man kept life below protected.

Then cooling evolution above brought back scientists of men UFO machine ark cloud memory. The warning. Holiness was only above us. As ground had opened into sin.

Attacked us again. Temple rebuilt pyramid collider themes today. Cult group just a group who believes by practice only the teachings. What cult meant.

If you used religious temple science advice to hurt us it proved your cult group just humans were lying. Humans chosen behaviours only. To believe theisms.

As they hadn't invented flying machines. But had invented chariots. They portrayed man's occult science cause as flying chariots.

To reason earth is its owned god entity body not man's.
To reason earths heavens mass is owned bodily with every reactive interactive type as the heavens body also. Body not a man's

Was a humans natural law teaching status why no man is God.
Ignored as just a humans observed realised teaching.

Two humans live on earth. First a man. Who became father man owning man baby.

Man father baby son man.

A first woman. Who became a mother woman owning woman baby.

Woman mother baby daughter woman.

No man wo man is God.

Baby man as adult man's self idolisation of himself the baby. Was the adult man theist.

Only microbe man sperm plus microbe woman ovary joined to own baby man human life.

They multiplied cellular procreation formed a baby. His baby man grows keeps evolving form until he is adult man position human adult can be a father.

Idolised in human thesis his owned cell development. As theists as humans discuss evolution in only human self conscious body presence. Self ideals. Never discuss evolution of species

As they are not any god type.

Theists as only humans today lied about expressing they had a human thesis about evolution of the species by God on earth.

The history a human theist was direct design by Phi types to rebuild a machine only. Then by phi design how to convert mass as reactions.

Two variations of phi...one to own metal as a human. The other to destroy earths mass to gain only energy.

Why they lost their use conscious mind.

It's why humans biology skin cells were attacked by metals as implant. As humans tried to convert humans biology life into a metal in heavens...the evidence.

Theists today want the outcome to enter their machine as a resource. In their mind thesis beliefs reality advice said it was to heal his machines body mass only. To keep its presence in time nuclear mass shift.

He was aware it would blow up again. The machines mass body. As like a human the cloud design machine was the saved machine sun attack of sun mass above only.

No life bio or machines mass was saved on the ground. Is what the scientist lied about.

Beginning to end a human theist machine builder...end by converting earths mass. All life destroyed.

The old humans modern day nuclear heavens thesis was exact. Use of the coldest nuclear position attack human and animal tree ground mass to an indentated ashes to ashes dust to dust outcome only. On grounds mass.

His already given agreed human scientists answer. As just the nuclear theist.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Why do you think OT is about hell for non-believers? I think the whole Bible is basically about, righteous to eternal life.

What? There is no hell in the OT? They picked that up from the Persians. Satan is an angel of Yahweh and a son of Yahweh in the OT. He works for Yahweh. The Persian devil was at eternal war with the supreme God, good vs evil, end of the world final battle, everyone resurrects and lives in paradise on Earth. Persian myth.

The NT is hell for non-belief. Pretty harsh.


from Numbers 22:22,[7] which describes the Angel of Yahweh confronting Balaam on his donkey


Yahweh.[20] Job 1:6–8 describes the "sons of God" (bənê hāʼĕlōhîm) presenting themselves before Yahweh.[20] Yahweh asks one of them, "the satan", where he has been,

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

And I think God is extremely patient, otherwise we would not exist at all.

non-belief to eternal punishment? That isn't love. Sacrifices of a son, not love. I've never heard a parent who loves their children say "good thing I'm patient because my child would not exist at all". Ridiculous.

In the NT Jesus says he will tell the father about non-believers. Eternal fire also awaits them.
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

The OT kills non-believers:
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:6-10


  1. "That which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."
    Apostates will burn in hell with the other non-believers. 6:8
  2. "Melchisedec ... met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him."
    God showed his approval of "the slaughter of the kings" with Melchisedec's blessing of Abraham. (Genesis 14:17-18) 7:1
  3. God will not forgive anyone unless something is killed for him in a bloody manner. 9:13-22
  4. "A certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
    God will soon destroy non-believers in a fiery hell. 10:27
  5. Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29
  6. "Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord." 10:30
  7. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." 10:31
  8. "Abraham ... offered up Isaac ... his only begotten son." (And this was a good thing? How ****ed up is that?) 11:17
  9. The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29). 11:28
  10. God saved Rahab because she believed. (He killed all the non-believers in Jericho.) 11:31
  11. "Time would fail me to tell of Gideon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthah; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets."
    The heroes of faith: Gideon, Samson, Jephthah, David, and Samuel. It would be hard to find a more monstrous group than these guys. 11:32
  12. "Others were tortured ... that they might obtain a better resurrection." 11:35
  13. God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
  14. "Ye are come ... to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel." 12:22-24
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Sin is not loving!
Is it a sin to toss a rock through your neighbor's window? YES!
Is it a loving act to toss a rock through your neighbor's window? NO!

All sins are actions against God... God is LOVE!





First of all, love is a human emotion caused by several types of hormones and chemicals/drugs. Ocytocin, progesterone, natural opiates and many others.
A deity isn't an emotion.
But the actions of Yahweh are not loving at all.

No it's not a "sin" to throw a rock anywhere. Sin is a concept being sold by Judaism and a mythical deity. We have a moral code we all agree on where we don't harm others.
But that has nothing to do with a religious myth.
Yahweh tortures Job, allows plunder, slavery, insists on killing every living thing in 6 cities when at war, drowns the world including babies, animals, sends plagues out of anger (using Satan to deliver), not much love here.

Then the NT introduces eternal punishment, even for non-belief. The text bullies people into belief and then a sacrifice is required because as Hebrews 9 says everything requires blood.
Sacrifice was already required yearly killing many animals for "sins" of Hebrew people. Does all love require a blood sacrifice when someone does something wrong?
Maybe you should read the Bible?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Nakosis good to meet you..
God does NOT make mistakes... God is perfect if he made mistakes, he would NOT be God!

The flood removed men who rejected God!


Of course the flood and all of Genesis is a re-working of the Mesopotamian creation story, but still, in the story God did not kill just men who rejected him. He killed women who were raising babies, old folks just trying to farm and all sorts of murder.





It comes down to "Free Will"!

?! NO!
God could make us love but then our love would NOT be true love! God made man in his image "God is Love". Man can love or with "Free Will" man can chose NOT to love!!

It is a CHOICE! Adam the first PERFECT man made a free will choice... He chose NOT to love, not loving God he disobeyed God! Adam brought corruption and sin into God' PERFECT creation by his free will! God does all things perfectly... He created Adam perfect, if he did not create Adam perfect, he would not be God! The Perfect man chose not to love! Dogs, pigs, chickens' snails, ants etc. cannot love they do not have free will! ONLY.....


Uh, that isn't related to "not loving" ever in any way. If you disobey a loved one that isn't "not loving them". Eating a fruit is not "not loving". This too is an older myth from several older sources. If this God is so perfect why so many mistakes in the same book about Adam?

Is Moses’s father-in-law named Reuel (Exod 2:18) or Jethro (Exod 3:1)? Is the mountain in the wilderness where Yahweh appeared to the people called Sinai (Exod 19:11) or Horeb (Exod 3:1; Deut 1:6)? Of somewhat more significance are disagreements about where, when, and even why an event took place. In Numbers 20:23–29, Aaron dies on Mount Hor; according to Deuteronomy 10:6, however, he dies in Moserah. In Numbers 3–4, after Moses has descended from the mountain and is receiving the laws, the Levites are assigned their cultic re- sponsibilities; but according to Deuteronomy 10:8, the Levites were set apart at a site in the wilderness called Jotbath.10 In Numbers 20:2–13, Moses is forbidden from crossing the Jordan because of his actions at the waters of Meribah, when
he brought forth water from the rock; but then according to his own words in Deuteronomy 1:37–38, Moses was prohibited from entering the promised land not because of anything he did, but because of the sins of the people in the episode of the spies. Major contradictions, with important historiographical and theological ramifications, are also present in the text. The premier example of these is the creation story in Genesis 1 and 2: in what order was the world created? was it originally watery or dry? were male and female created together, or was woman made from man’s rib? is man the culmination of creation, or the beginning? Other examples are equally problematic. For the cult: was the Tent of Meeting in the center of the Israelite camp (Num 2–3) and did Yahweh dwell there constantly (Exod 40:34–38), or was it situated well outside the camp (Exod 33:7), and does Yahweh descend to it only to speak with Moses (Exod 33:8–11)? For prophecy: could there be other prophets like Moses after his death (Deut 18:15), or not (Deut 34:10–12)? These contradictions, from minor to major, are difficult, and frequently impossible, to reconcile.


NARRATIVE PROBLEMS

During the Reformation, when the challenging of authoritative claims, religious and otherwise, was the order of the day, scholars began to insist on a close reading of the pentateuchal narrative on its own terms, as a history of Israel from the creation of the world until the death of Moses. Under these circumstances, it was not long before the literary problems of the text became undeniable.9 The hallmark of a unified composition, one created by a single author, is internal consistency: consistency of language and style, consistency of theme and thought, and, above all, consistency of story. Every narrative makes certain claims about the way events transpired—who, what, when, where, how, and why. When these elements are uniform throughout a text, there is no pressing need to inquire as to its unity. In the Pentateuch, however, historical claims made in one passage are undermined or contradicted outright in another. The problems identified by the Reformation scholars are the same as those we struggle with today and can be classified in three major overlapping groups: contra- dictions, doublets, and discontinuities.
Contradictions in the pentateuchal narrative come in a variety of forms, from the smallest of details to the most important of historical claims. On the minor end are ostensibly simple disagreements about the names of people and places.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
What? There is no hell in the OT?...
The NT is hell for non-belief. Pretty harsh.
...
non-belief to eternal punishment? That isn't love. Sacrifices of a son, not love. ...

Firstly, I want to say, hell is a place where person is utterly destroyed. If you end up to hell, it means you are eternally dead, there is no coming back to life when you are totally destroyed.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

Is that different than what was for unrighteous in the OT, I don't think so.

And the reason for the death is sin/unrighteousness:

I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.
John 8:24

Sins are the reason for death. If you would believe what Jesus said, you would have chance to avoid what is coming for you, if you have sin, because the words of Jesus can cause the change of "heart" so that person becomes righteous.

And about the sacrifice. Jesus used his life for us, so that we could become righteous and have life. It can be compared to a soldier who "sacrifices" his life while defending his country. I think it was loving from God to send Jesus to show us the way back to Him and it was loving from Jesus to submit to that job, even though it meant evil people will kill him like they want to kill all people who do good and speak truth.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
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SkepticThinker I hope all is well....
You asked... Please don't just preach at me with Bible verses. Try your own words please.

I reply: Today; fact babies are destroyed by Abortion doctors! Innocent babies are killed so the mother can have a longer vacation!! Solving a problem by a decision that will have forever consequences!
God knows beyond all doubt, where each soul will end up in the next life! The Innocent will end up in heaven "FOREVER" the wicked will end up with Satan in Gehenna "FOREVER"! The wicked are the children of Satan they will burn with him FOREVER!

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.


SkepticThinker Those who do not Love will not go to Paradise!

SkepticThinker this is a FACT you will not live FOREVER here on earth; you will die AND BE JUDGED; die from a heart attack or a flood etc you will die!
SkepticThinker The Innocent will end up in heaven "FOREVER" You ask "How can babies be wicked?" The simple answer is "They can't"! Did they die in the flood YES because all die anyway, our goal is not a life here on earth the goal of each should be FOREVER LIFE in Paradise! The Innocent (The Babies) ended up in heaven "FOREVER"!

Okay, so you just preached at me again, which I asked you not to do. You're preaching claims, not evidence.

Now you're telling me that babies aren't wicked, after just telling me that God flooded the earth and killed everyone on it (including all the babies) because everyone was wicked.

So if innocent babies end up in heaven forever, as you state in your last line, then you shouldn't be so upset about innocent babies being aborted (in your first line) because they get to spend eternity in heaven.

This is why I asked you to use your own words, instead of repeating Bible verses, because you're not making sense.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Theists are just a biological human. In natural law. Natural law is first.

Babies human from sciences human position law.... microbial sperm human. You evolved says consciousness human. You're born...evolve again from baby body into adult type original human parents. One species human.

Humans living experience on planet earth.

No scientists.
No theists
No machines.

You are mutual equal in laws. Natural laws balances with nature body.

In natural law said only by natural observation humans intelligence in whole being. Your parents body life bio is now dusts blowing on the breeze.

As a human not conscious as theists you outright lie.

In conscious terms your parent biology is dead and has gone to hell in its decomposition stages to become dust. Says thinking using human biology memories.

As evil thinkers you ignore your owned just human conscious advices about living life survival. To thesis destruction instead...as cult science.

Your exact no man is God. Testimony proved human science had changed natural earth laws. Book shut. Oath to now legally as a human to only tell truth.

Testimony satanisms sciences... for temple science.

As theist human scientists had lied.

Natural law highest on earth is first...not their thesis.

As a bully group mind changed human men. Life was a bigger populous than bullies. Were meek loving innocent didn't murder nor wanted to murder.

Is obvious how cult bully behaviours was successful as murderers by threat. The answer in a destructive mind aware. To destroy gives me what I want. His answer theist journey belief choice motivated behaviours.

Exact.

Always has been your theists human answer. Men's group agreement first cult.

So today if a sun blasted everything that already pre existed as cold planets with cold gases. Where did suns law end? From big bang blast gave earth natural light above?

In Infinity that blasted as a planetoid in mass as just carbon bodies in deep space. Where it stopped. Law.

Is that earth in natural law?

No says intelligent humans.

Cult behaviours I'm more special than you only takes a few new ideas to begin a new cult...in science. Humans who want to be viewed as new with extra special in thinking conditions.

So once a non science man life sacrificed unnaturally bleeding said my families father's lineage had been a king. I understand he had lied historic as science high priest false my parents old memories. Preacher...maths.

I realised I now lived as a usurped king line family. As lords of trade king's were evil men of old. Always murdered families to become the new king. Greed involved as was control.

So I inherited my families karmic causes. As the thinker about causes of old technologies. I understood why modern science man would not listen to our human holy father.

Because of greed and want of new trade.

So I wrote recorded my living experience.

When it was legally correlated as new testimony it was from many books written records. Given the legal title Jesus. Just as old summarised was titled Moses.

And sun theists like Galileo were thrown into Gaol for contriving against life's safety on earth.

As light above is a fixed earths heavens status only and should never change. In voiding vacuum law.

As a medical biologist thinker I say minerals form a new living cell.

My brother in the cult lies. He takes minerals destroys them allows no living single cell.

Is my human warning.

As life's biologies uses natural mineral dusts to survive in waters conditions known.

So I argue for single cell life survival as a teaching. It's not about evolution at all. I argue the single cell needs to exist or life won't.
 
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