What goes around comes around

InvestigateTruth · Oct 25, 2022

Maybe it looks like I should put this in the Politics thread, but it is not really about Politics.

It is well known now, that when in 1979, the Iranian Shah was overthrown and replaced by the Islamic theocracy in Iran, the USA and England had a role for that to happen, simply because the USA and British Governments at the time, saw it was in their favor. I don't want to get into details of that, as I'm not really interested in politics.

Now, consider, 40 years later, this same Islamic theocracy that was established by the help of the western Governments now helping Russia in war against Ukraine by supplying some Drones, which recently has destroyed more than 30 percent of Ukrain Electrical Power. The Ukrain is going to have a cold and dark winter.
But, could this help from Iranian Islamic theocracy, actually result in Russia winning the war? If Russia wins, through help from Iran, how would that effect the US and England?
Do you see how what goes around comes around, more than 40 years later?

exchemist · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
Maybe it looks like I should put this in the Politics thread, but it is not really about Politics.

It is well known now, that when in 1979, the Iranian Shah was overthrown and replaced by the Islamic theocracy in Iran, the USA and England had a role for that to happen, simply because the USA and British Governments at the time, saw it was in their favor. I don't want to get into details of that, as I'm not really interested in politics.

Now, consider, 40 years later, this same Islamic theocracy that was established by the help of the western Governments now helping Russia in war against Ukraine by supplying some Drones, which recently has destroyed more than 30 percent of Ukrain Electrical Power. The Ukrain is going to have a cold and dark winter.
But, could this help from Iranian Islamic theocracy, actually result in Russia winning the war? If Russia wins, through help from Iran, how would that effect the US and England?
Do you see how what goes around comes around, more than 40 years later?

To start with, what is your evidence that the US or the UK played a role in the overthrow of the Shah and the installation of the Islamic theocracy? This is something I have never heard of and it strikes as prima facie rather unlikely.

The Shah had certainly become unpopular and was resorting to brutal repression to hold onto power (SAVAK etc), so he had lost the sympathy of Western media and the US was considering withdrawing support for him, but I am not aware of any active effort from either government to overthrow him. Where do you get this from?

(These Iranian drones are not going to win the war for Putin, by the way.)

InvestigateTruth · Oct 25, 2022

exchemist said:
To start with, what is your evidence that the US or the UK played a role in the overthrow of the Shah and the installation of the Islamic theocracy? This is something I have never heard of and it strikes as prima facie rather unlikely.

The Shah had certainly become unpopular and was resorting to brutal repression to hold onto power (SAVAK etc), so he had lost the sympathy of Western media and the US was considering withdrawing support for him, but I am not aware of any active effort from either government to overthrow him. Where do you get this from?

Oh, please, You can do your own research on that. Just Google it.

exchemist · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
Oh, please, You can do your own research on that. Just Google it.

Nope. It's you that is making the claim, so it is for you to justify it.

InvestigateTruth · Oct 25, 2022

exchemist said:
Nope. It's you that is making the claim, so it is for you to justify it.

I am originally from Iran, and through many years, many Iranians got enough evidence to know that. But there is too much info to provide here or prove. It is upto you to accept or reject it.

HonestJoe · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
Do you see how what goes around comes around, more than 40 years later?

I think that is far to simplistic a connection. A vast amount happened in the 40 years since then and we've no way of knowing what situation Iran would be in today if the revolution hadn't happened in 1979 or Western governments had acted differently. It could be better, it could be worse, for both the Iranian people and from a more global viewpoint.

exchemist · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
I am originally from Iran, and through many years, many Iranians got enough evidence to know that. But there is too much info to provide here or prove. It is upto you to accept or reject it.

No it's up to you to justify your claim. Because if it is false, the rest of your post becomes nonsense, doesn't it? So it's pretty important that you persuade readers that your claim is true.

Viker · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
"It is well known now,"

that when in 1979, the Iranian Shah was overthrown and replaced by the Islamic theocracy in Iran, the USA and England had a role for that to happen, simply because the USA and British Governments at the time, saw it was in their favor

InvestigateTruth · Oct 25, 2022

HonestJoe said:
I think that is far to simplistic a connection. A vast amount happened in the 40 years since then and we've no way of knowing what situation Iran would be in today if the revolution hadn't happened in 1979 or Western governments had acted differently. It could be better, it could be worse, for both the Iranian people and from a more global viewpoint.

This is like saying, for example if this person had not killed that person, maybe, that person would have been killed by someone else in a more brutal way.

InvestigateTruth · Oct 25, 2022

Viker said:

Politicians don't tell you all their dirty works. You won't know unless you really investigate.
Who threw the first nuclear Bomb in another country?

MikeF · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
Maybe it looks like I should put this in the Politics thread, but it is not really about Politics.

It is well known now, that when in 1979, the Iranian Shah was overthrown and replaced by the Islamic theocracy in Iran, the USA and England had a role for that to happen, simply because the USA and British Governments at the time, saw it was in their favor. I don't want to get into details of that, as I'm not really interested in politics.

Now, consider, 40 years later, this same Islamic theocracy that was established by the help of the western Governments now helping Russia in war against Ukraine by supplying some Drones, which recently has destroyed more than 30 percent of Ukrain Electrical Power. The Ukrain is going to have a cold and dark winter.
But, could this help from Iranian Islamic theocracy, actually result in Russia winning the war? If Russia wins, through heAyatollah Khomeinilp from Iran, how would that effect the US and England?
Do you see how what goes around comes around, more than 40 years later?

It has been my understanding that the United States supported the Shah Iran. The Islamic revolution was in support of the Ayatollah Khomeini culminating in the Shah going into exile and the US Embassy hostage crisis and the Ayatollah coming to power.

I think the Islamic Theocracy in Iran was the exact opposite of what the US and other Western nations may have considered to be in their interest.

Perhaps you mean to say that supporting the Shah was the mistake that has come back to bite the US in the form of Iranian aid to Russia? If so, I would say that this instance is small potatoes compared to Iranian support of global terrorism and the Iranian nuclear program. There have been more gotcha's than Iran selling drones to Russia.

InvestigateTruth · Oct 25, 2022

MikeF said:
It has been my understanding that the United States supported the Shah Iran. The Islamic revolution was in support of the Ayatollah Khomeini culminating in the Shah going into exile and the US Embassy hostage crisis and the Ayatollah coming to power.

I think the Islamic Theocracy in Iran was the exact opposite of what the US and other Western nations may have considered to be in their interest.

Perhaps you mean to say that supporting the Shah was the mistake that has come back to bite the US in the form of Iranian aid to Russia? If so, I would say that this instance is small potatoes compared to Iranian support of global terrorism and the Iranian nuclear program. There have been more gotcha's than Iran selling drones to Russia.

Your understanding is based on what was told on multimedia according to their propaganda.
While it was said to the public, that USA and Britain are supporters of the Shah, in reality, this was a game. In fact they were not supportes of the Shah, because in those days, Iran was becoming a powerful and successful rival for the western countries. There are many Videos you can see on YouTube that the Shah and Western countries were arguing, and were not getting along. Therefore, the Westerners supported the Islamic Opposition as a way to beat their rival in the middle east. I am not saying they plotted the overthrown, but in many ways, which is known now, specifically to the current Iranians, they helped the Islamic revolution.
Even now, as you may know, the Iranian for many years are trying to change the Islamic regime and establish democracy but, the Westerners not only did not help, but behind the scenes try to help this regime to stay, for many reasons. Among the reasons, is, the Islamic Regime being a scary terrorist group, causes other countries in the Middle East to buy expensive weapons from the USA, and westerns. Yes, Money!

MikeF · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
Your understanding is based on what was told on multimedia according to their propaganda.
While it was said to the public, that USA and Britain are supporters of the Shah, in reality, this was a game. In fact they were not supportes of the Shah, because in those days, Iran was becoming a powerful and successful rival for the western countries. There are many Videos you can see on YouTube that the Shah and Western countries were arguing, and were not getting along. Therefore, the Westerners supported the Islamic Opposition as a way to beat their rival in the middle east. I am not saying they plotted the overthrown, but in many ways, which is known now, specifically to the current Iranians, they helped the Islamic revolution.
Even now, as you may know, the Iranian for many years are trying to change the Islamic regime and establish democracy but, the Westerners not only did not help, but behind the scenes try to help this regime to stay, for many reasons. Among the reasons, is, the Islamic Regime being a scary terrorist group, causes other countries in the Middle East to buy expensive weapons from the USA, and westerns. Yes, Money!

I would think it more useful to rely on scholarly historical research than on Youtube video's, wouldn't you agree? Youtube is the last place I would look for authoritative historical documentation.

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2022

I think these 3 Islamic traditions might be unfolding.

"In the latter days a grievous calamity shall befall My people at the hands of their ruler, a calamity such as no man ever heard to surpass it. So fierce will it be that none can find a shelter. God will then send down One of My descendants, One sprung from My family, Who will fill the earth with equity and justice, even as it hath been filled with injustice and tyranny.”

“A day shall be witnessed by My people whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur’án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them will it recoil.”

“At that hour His malediction shall descend upon you, and your curse shall afflict you, and your religion shall remain an empty word on your tongues. And when these signs appear amongst you, anticipate the day when the red-hot wind will have swept over you, or the day when ye will have been disfigured, or when stones will have rained upon you.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 172-179

Regards Tony

Twilight Hue · Oct 25, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
Maybe it looks like I should put this in the Politics thread, but it is not really about Politics.

It is well known now, that when in 1979, the Iranian Shah was overthrown and replaced by the Islamic theocracy in Iran, the USA and England had a role for that to happen, simply because the USA and British Governments at the time, saw it was in their favor. I don't want to get into details of that, as I'm not really interested in politics.

Now, consider, 40 years later, this same Islamic theocracy that was established by the help of the western Governments now helping Russia in war against Ukraine by supplying some Drones, which recently has destroyed more than 30 percent of Ukrain Electrical Power. The Ukrain is going to have a cold and dark winter.
But, could this help from Iranian Islamic theocracy, actually result in Russia winning the war? If Russia wins, through help from Iran, how would that effect the US and England?
Do you see how what goes around comes around, more than 40 years later?

I think of the reality in international politics.

Friends today. Enemies tomorrow.

danieldemol · Oct 26, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
Do you see how what goes around comes around, more than 40 years later?

What goes around comes around is just superstition.

Your desperate want to believe it is showing in that you consider a bunch of Ukrainian civilians being deprived of electricity - who had nothing to do with the Islamic revolution in Iran - as some sort of divine justice.

In my opinion.

InvestigateTruth · Oct 26, 2022

danieldemol said:
What goes around comes around is just superstition.

Your desperate want to believe it is showing in that you consider a bunch of Ukrainian civilians being deprived of electricity - who had nothing to do with the Islamic revolution in Iran - as some sort of divine justice.

In my opinion.

No, that's not what I wanted to show. I am showing how an Iranian Islamic regime who came to power with support of USA and England, is now helping Russia in a war, which could result in Russia winning the war. Which then could encourage Russia to even later invade other countries, and then extend the war to Nato, which would involve USA and England eventually. But if Russia looses this war, it would be incapable of extending it farther.

InvestigateTruth · Oct 26, 2022

Twilight Hue said:
I think of the reality in international politics.

Friends today. Enemies tomorrow.

That's too. But I am trying to show, how politicians can only think of short term benefits. They are incapable of predicting how a short term benefit, can in the future effects their own country eventually.
Another example of that was the Sam Bin Laden, who actually USA had previously helped, and some decades later did a terrorist attack in the US.
That's what happens when politicians play dirty games, rather than really caring about humanity.

InvestigateTruth · Oct 26, 2022

MikeF said:
I would think it more useful to rely on scholarly historical research than on Youtube video's, wouldn't you agree? Youtube is the last place I would look for authoritative historical documentation.

YouTube showing the history with actual showing the Shah, and his interviews is not documentary? There are books written on how the US, and Britain helped with Islamic theocracy in Iran.
To start with:

Jimmy Carter's engagement with Ruhollah Khomeini - Wikipedia.

MikeF · Oct 26, 2022

InvestigateTruth said:
YouTube showing the history with actual showing the Shah, and his interviews is not documentary? There are books written on how the US, and Britain helped with Islamic theocracy in Iran.
To start with:

Jimmy Carter's engagement with Ruhollah Khomeini - Wikipedia.

The Wiki page you linked has a warning on it that it is unsourced or poorly sourced and may be challenged and removed. Additionally, the page has links to two other pages:

1979 Iranian Revolution conspiracy theory

October Surprise conspiracy theory

These pages call your version of events a conspiracy theory right in their titles.

Regardless, it doesn't matter. What is occurring today in Ukraine is the result of more contemporary issues, not the fall of the Shah's regime, in my uniformed opinion.

What goes around comes around

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