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Question for anti-trans monotheists

9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
If you think God has a gender (e.g. if you refer to God with "he/him" pronouns), how did you decide which pronouns apply?

I mean, I assume you aren't basing this on God's chromosomes or genitalia (or are you? :eek:), so what criteria are you basing your decision on?
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
9-10ths_Penguin said:
If you think God has a gender (e.g. if you refer to God with "he/him" pronouns), how did you decide which pronouns apply?

I mean, I assume you aren't basing this on God's chromosomes or genitalia (or are you? :eek:), so what criteria are you basing your decision on?
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Your question is a really good question:)

Since God has not shown in Gods true image (as far as I know) humans can not be certain of Gods gender
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Seeker of White Light said:
Your question is a really good question:)

Since God has not shown in Gods true image (as far as I know) humans can not be certain of Gods gender
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I notice that you don't say that God is genderless. You seem open to the idea that God might have a gender even if we can't say what it is.

So what do you think would or could determine God's gender? Is there anything you can think of where you can say "if I were to see _____, then I would know that God was (insert gender)"?
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I notice that you don't say that God is genderless. You seem open to the idea that God might have a gender even if we can't say what it is.

So what do you think would or could determine God's gender? Is there anything you can think of where you can say "if I were to see _____, then I would know that God was (insert gender)"?
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No :) i can not say what gender if any God might have because I honestly do not know.

What I do know is that often God is refered to as He or Him in certain scripture.
But if God actually have a gender i don't know
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
If you think God has a gender (e.g. if you refer to God with "he/him" pronouns), how did you decide which pronouns apply?...
Click to expand...

It is how He identifies in the Bible. Not my decision. But I think there is a good reason for that, and the reason is, He has fathered everything. (Father = to be the originator of something).
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
1213 said:
It is how He identifies in the Bible. Not my decision.
Click to expand...
So you base your position on God's gender identity, too?

But I think there is a good reason for that, and the reason is, He has fathered everything. (Father = to be the originator of something).
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You don't think "the originator of something" can be consistent with "mother," too?

Would you say that a human who is a metaphorical "father" in the sense you describe (e.g. an artisan) is a man regardless of their chromosomes, etc.?
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
...
You don't think "the originator of something" can be consistent with "mother," too?
Click to expand...

No, because mother "gives birth", but is not the originator, not the cause for why she is giving birth.

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Would you say that a human who is a metaphorical "father" in the sense you describe (e.g. an artisan) is a man regardless of their chromosomes, etc.?
Click to expand...

Maybe no one else is father in that sense, because God is the originator of everything, and it is also said:

...Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
1213 said:
No, because mother "gives birth", but is not the originator, not the cause for why she is giving birth.
Click to expand...
This is starting to head in a pretty misogynistic direction, but setting that aside for a moment: why the insistence on literality when it comes to women's roles but going deep into metaphor with men's roles?

I mean, are you suggesting that God impregnated something in order to make the universe? If not, why not (and why the insistence that being a metaphorical mother implies "giving birth")?


Maybe no one else is father in that sense, because God is the originator of everything, and it is also said:

...Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12
Click to expand...
So you think literal hunan fathers aren't fathers? o_O

Your position is starting to seem pretty ridiculous.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
This is starting to head in a pretty misogynistic direction, but setting that aside for a moment: why the insistence on literality when it comes to women's roles but going deep into metaphor with men's roles?

I mean, are you suggesting that God impregnated something in order to make the universe? If not, why not (and why the insistence that being a metaphorical mother implies "giving birth")?


So you think literal human fathers aren't fathers?
Click to expand...

Nothing I say is misogyny, I don't have dislike, contempt, or ingrained prejudice against women. If I tell there is a difference, it is because that is how it is, not because of hate. And even if a woman would be different than a man, it does not mean they are not as valuable, or not to be appreciated. I think it is disturbing that nowadays people seem to think that people must be as "good" in every way to be appreciated equally.

I think I have no difference in how I see women's role to how I see man's role. They are different both literally and metaphorically. But, in literal and metaphorical way father is the originator, first cause, the thing that starts the process.

I believe God created world and life from nothing, therefore there was nothing to impregnate.

And by what I know, father means literally to initiate something. And mother to give birth. Maybe you disagree with this, but that is the way to understand the difference and reason why the word is used as it is used.

I think human fathers can be seen as biological fathers, but, in Biblical point of view they are only because of God. That is why God is the only true Father, because He is the ultimate cause, reason why all exists.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Koldo said:
What the...
You know that women are not mere incubators when it comes down to reproduction, right? You must have heard of ovum, right?
Click to expand...

Ovum itself doesn't start the process; it is not the cause why a child begins to grow. That is why it is not the original reason, or "originator". But, in a way man is neither, because man has not made himself to exist.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
1213 said:
Nothing I say is misogyny, I don't have dislike, contempt, or ingrained prejudice against women. If I tell there is a difference, it is because that is how it is, not because of hate. And even if a woman would be different than a man, it does not mean they are not as valuable, or not to be appreciated. I think it is disturbing that nowadays people seem to think that people must be as "good" in every way to be appreciated equally.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's all true.

I think I have no difference in how I see women's role to how I see man's role. They are different both literally and metaphorically. But, in literal and metaphorical way father is the originator, first cause, the thing that starts the process.

I believe God created world and life from nothing, therefore there was nothing to impregnate.
Click to expand...
Then God is not a literal father.

Think about how you're drawing this line: if someone has to "give birth" to be a mother, then it stands to reason that they have to "impregnate" to be a father.

And by what I know, father means literally to initiate something.
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No, it doesn't literally mean that.

Where are you getting this nonsense from?

And mother to give birth. Maybe you disagree with this, but that is the way to understand the difference and reason why the word is used as it is used.
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I don't believe that you actually use the word "father" this way.

I think human fathers can be seen as biological fathers, but, in Biblical point of view they are only because of God. That is why God is the only true Father, because He is the ultimate cause, reason why all exists.
Click to expand...
Yeah... this makes no sense at all.
 
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