Do Baha'i covert people to their way of thinking?Yes or no?

Exaltist Ethan said:

No. They tell people what they believe, as do I, but they don't typically tell people that is the only way to think.

Click to expand...

They don't overtly claim it is the ONLY way to think, but I am suspicious they are doing it covertly. I just asked a question about this on the homosexual thread. They insist the Messenger has connection with God, and the writings are absolute. Well if that is what they believe then everyone else is dead wrong. They might not come out and say we are wrong, but they certainly imply it as they claim their Messenger MUST be authentic, and the texts ABSOLUTELY from God. They are so adamant about these texts being absolute that they can't even remove the homophobic parts. With all the arguments against their immoral text and belief they stand firm. That they continue to defend their beliefs, often with distractions and deflection, indicates they are firm in their belief and defiant against criticism.

A smart thing to do, as some Bahai have done, is to bow out of the uncomfortable discussions. If they really believe the texts are from God and accept that gays are to be condemned, then they should keep that private. It they decide to keep up a defense for an immoral view then they bring on suffering for themselves, and taint the image of their religion that much more. An even smarter move would for the Bahai (assuming they aren't bigots) to offer prayers to God to change this law. That would save face, and suggest there is an oen dialog with God to adjust the ban on gays.

Frank Goad said:

Do Baha'i covert people to their way of thinking? Yes or no?

Click to expand...

They try very hard to do that, wherever they go.

Frank Goad said:

Do Baha'i covert people to their way of thinking?Yes or no?

Click to expand...

No.

Baha'is are encouraged to teach their faith to those who are receptive or interested. If they are not interested we should avoid any pressure or coercion.

People choose to become or not become a Baha'i the same way one chooses any other path.

loverofhumanity said:

People convert themselves.

Click to expand...

Strange OP then.

Secret Chief said:

Strange OP then.

Click to expand...

I don't think the OP meant exactly what it said, as it makes no sense the way it was written. No person can convert another person. What they can do is try to convince (proselytize), advertise, excessively promote, etc. Perhaps that is what the OP meant. It could also have meant 'accept converts'. I don't know.

soulsurvivor said:

They try very hard to do that, wherever they go.

Click to expand...

Not at all. I have many friends and all we ever talk about is food, family and the weather. Never religion.

F1fan said:

They don't overtly claim it is the ONLY way to think, but I am suspicious they are doing it covertly. I just asked a question about this on the homosexual thread. They insist the Messenger has connection with God, and the writings are absolute. Well if that is what they believe then everyone else is dead wrong. They might not come out and say we are wrong, but they certainly imply it as they claim their Messenger MUST be authentic, and the texts ABSOLUTELY from God. They are so adamant about these texts being absolute that they can't even remove the homophobic parts. With all the arguments against their immoral text and belief they stand firm. That they continue to defend their beliefs, often with distractions and deflection, indicates they are firm in their belief and defiant against criticism.

A smart thing to do, as some Bahai have done, is to bow out of the uncomfortable discussions. If they really believe the texts are from God and accept that gays are to be condemned, then they should keep that private. It they decide to keep up a defense for an immoral view then they bring on suffering for themselves, and taint the image of their religion that much more. An even smarter move would for the Bahai (assuming they aren't bigots) to offer prayers to God to change this law. That would save face, and suggest there is an oen dialog with God to adjust the ban on gays.

Click to expand...

We believe what we believe and leave others alone to believe what they believe. Of course if our beliefs are attacked or Baha’u’llah we will defend ourselves.

loverofhumanity said:

Not at all. I have many friends and all we ever talk about is food, family and the weather. Never religion.

Click to expand...

I'd like to hear about that here on RF. After all, it is one of the places you go, right? But here it's 95% Baha'i. Many folks here on RF, including me, say very little about their own faith.

Vinayaka said:

I'd like to hear about that here on RF. After all, it is one of the places you go, right? But here it's 95% Baha'i. Many folks here on RF, including me, say very little about their own faith.

Click to expand...

When people criticise our beliefs we will defend them just as you do when you feel your beliefs are being misrepresented otherwise we have a lot of floods here in Australia with many homes evacuated.

loverofhumanity said:

Not at all. I have many friends and all we ever talk about is food, family and the weather. Never religion.

Click to expand...

Same with me, however their internet presence is otherwise.
Same with other religions.

loverofhumanity said:

When people criticise our beliefs we will defend them just as you do when you feel your beliefs are being misrepresented otherwise we have a lot of floods here in Australia with many homes evacuated.

Click to expand...

In my experience the Baha'i members start almost all of the threads here that are about Baha'i. So it's not really about defending your ideas, but trying to promote your ideas, getting disagreement, and then defending it. Yes, lately there have been a couple of threads started by non-Baha'i about Baha'i. My point is simple ... if you don't want criticism, don't put it out there.

Vinayaka said:

In my experience the Baha'i members start almost all of the threads here that are about Baha'i. So it's not really about defending your ideas, but trying to promote your ideas, getting disagreement, and then defending it. Yes, lately there have been a couple of threads started by non-Baha'i about Baha'i. My point is simple ... if you don't want criticism, don't put it out there.

Click to expand...

Yes true. I I or other Baha’is start a thread of course we expect diverse viewpoints. There have been a few threads started by others asking about our views so we reply.

loverofhumanity said:

Yes true. I I or other Baha’is start a thread of course we expect diverse viewpoints. There have been a few threads started by others asking about our views so we reply.

Click to expand...

I don't believe the intent is to expect diverse viewpoints. Certainly they're often not welcomed, and I doubt if some are even read. Personally, I believe the intent is subtle proselytizing. The subtle part simply means to get people talking about your faith. That's the 'in' so to speak. Then, it carries into bigger things. It's the common strategy I have noticed. Not sure it it's a strategy consciously, but it certainly comes across that way. Of all groups here, the Baha'i wear their religion on their sleeve more than most. In my discussions with the Baha'i with regard o religion, it's been 97% Baha'i. 3% Hindu. Not exactly a 2 way conversation at all, but one where one side dominates. Can you imagine a friendship or marriage where the talk was about one of the people, and never the other?

Do you ever get to the ocean?

Exaltist Ethan said:

I do this, like the Baha'is, because we really want you know what we believe and why we believe it.
Our faith gives us excitement and joy. Especially mine.

Click to expand...

Then it sounds like proselytizing to me, if it's about
"we really want you know what we believe and why...."
Unless they ask for it; that is the right time to tell them
I don't want others to know what I believe; why tell them that?

Key questions to know whether or not it is proselytizing while telling:
1) Do you assume that their view gives them less joy than your view gives you joy?
2) Do you believe that all religions are equally sufficient to lead to the highest goal?

I don't know if convert is the correct word. I do believe they attempt to persuade or appeal to others. Sometimes, conversion could be considered a form of coercion. I haven't gotten that vibe from Baha'i that are here. But, I often don't pay full attention.

loverofhumanity said:

We believe what we believe and leave others alone to believe what they believe.

Click to expand...

The thing is you believe your beliefs are absolute and can't be questioned. Even if you don't want to debate (which you do anyway) you believe you are beyond error. Some Bahai like Tb admits they could be wrong. But that is pretty irrelevant if the ideas are considered absolute even though the believer could be in error. This is part of what is irrational about religious belief.

Of course if our beliefs are attacked or Baha’u’llah we will defend ourselves.

Click to expand...

I don't see attacks. I do see credible criticisms of Bahai and the religion and laws. To my mind the prejudice against gays is a serious flaw.

Vinayaka said:

In my experience the Baha'i members start almost all of the threads here that are about Baha'i. So it's not really about defending your ideas, but trying to promote your ideas, getting disagreement, and then defending it. Yes, lately there have been a couple of threads started by non-Baha'i about Baha'i. My point is simple ... if you don't want criticism, don't put it out there.

Click to expand...

Actually, I started a thread here some time ago called "Why Bahai" and that's where I learned about the Bahai theology.

The problem with many is that they do not understand what criticism is. Criticism is not insulting, mocking or demonising a theology or a group. It is to analyse, apply techniques, hermeneutics, criticism studies and present a valid criticism. A lot of people who insult the Bahai faith think that's criticism. It's absolutely wrong. I have seen many who just insult the Bahai faith have no clue what their theology is or even read a single book written by one of their bygone peers.

This is common everywhere. When you go to an atheist group, they call it "criticism" but without any education in the topic they just mock and apply the same illogical statements on all the religions. When you go to religious group they do the same to atheists. It's a seriously silly game.

When we say "criticism" we have to honestly look at ourselves if we are actually doing criticism or just there to mock and feel good. One must understand criticism first. IMO.

F1fan said:

The thing is you believe your beliefs are absolute and can't be questioned. Even if you don't want to debate (which you do anyway) you believe you are beyond error. Some Bahai like Tb admits they could be wrong. But that is pretty irrelevant if the ideas are considered absolute even though the believer could be in error. This is part of what is irrational about religious belief.



I don't see attacks. I do see credible criticisms of Bahai and the religion and laws. To my mind the prejudice against gays is a serious flaw.

Click to expand...

Anyone is free to object or question our beliefs. For the uninformed, Baha’is believe that this is the Day of God. Which means God is with us in the form of infallible Divine guidance for at least another approximately 800 years.

The greatness of this Day is we Baha’is believe, is that it is the Day of the Promised One. The Fifth Buddha, the Lord of Hosts, Kalki Avatar, Shah Bahram, the return of Jesus as the Father and the Twelfth Imam. This we believe is Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah, signed and sealed His Writings. In His Will He appointed Abdul-Baha with infallibility and in His turn Shoghi Effendi. After Shoghi Effendi the Universal House of Justice is now the infallible Body guiding Baha’is.

The total literature encompasses just about all topics. For example when non Baha’is ask a question, Baha’is are mostly giving them a paraphrasing of what our scriptures say. There is almost always a letter or answer that has already been stated by One of the infallible Figures that we could quote without paraphrasing at all.

Also, it is the very first time that humanity has had available to it continuous infallibility to guide it after the Prophet died. In the past religions split into schisms because their Prophet left no will.


This is the very first time in history that humanity we believe, has access to infallible knowledge should it wish to avail itself of it.

BUT. That does not make individual Baha’is special or chosen ones or infallible whatsoever. It’s just that we have access to this infallible knowledge and convey it to others . But anyone can have access to it as well. It’s there for one and all.

firedragon said:

Actually, I started a thread here some time ago called "Why Bahai" and that's where I learned about the Bahai theology.

The problem with many is that they do not understand what criticism is. Criticism is not insulting, mocking or demonising a theology or a group. It is to analyse, apply techniques, hermeneutics, criticism studies and present a valid criticism. A lot of people who insult the Bahai faith think that's criticism. It's absolutely wrong. I have seen many who just insult the Bahai faith have no clue what their theology is or even read a single book written by one of their bygone peers.

This is common everywhere. When you go to an atheist group, they call it "criticism" but without any education in the topic they just mock and apply the same illogical statements on all the religions. When you go to religious group they do the same to atheists. It's a seriously silly game.

When we say "criticism" we have to honestly look at ourselves if we are actually doing criticism or just there to mock and feel good. One must understand criticism first. IMO.

Click to expand...

So true. I found on many threads about Islam the majority had not read the Quran at all so were not sincerely questioning just opposing and seeking to defame it.

loverofhumanity said:

So true. I found on many threads about Islam the majority had not read the Quran at all so were not sincerely questioning just opposing and seeking to defame it.

Click to expand...

Daily occurrence, all over the world. But on the flip side, because of this, students in Islamic studies have increased like absolutely mad. Classes that had one or two students prior to 911 are as full as can be. And mind you, that's in the United States.

If you LOH study Islam, start teaching, your class will be full. You write a book on the topic, scholarly or just childish, it will still sell like crazy. It's a huge industry.