DACA expected to be ruled illegal

Hold · Oct 4, 2022

........

The Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) was declared “illegal” on July 16, 2021, by a judge in Texas. The court order blocked the immigration authorities from approving new applications for the program. Current DACA recipients are unaffected, and renewals are still being granted.
(edit)......
On August 30, 2022, the Department of Homeland Security will issue a new regulation that formally establishes the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) policy. The text was posted on Wednesday, August 24th. This is an effort from the Biden Administration to strengthen the policy, but this rule does not make any changes to who is eligible for DACA, and will not protect DACA from ongoing or future legal challenges.

Ultimately, the final rule mostly reiterates the DACA policy as it already exists. The rule does not reopen DACA for first-time applicants, nor does it change the eligibility requirements. Moreover, unfortunately, the rule is very unlikely to remove the urgent and existential threat to DACA that currently exists in the court.

The rule does not go into effect right away, so DACA recipients should understand that nothing changes for them right now. Not only is there a 60-day period before enactment, but it is entirely possible—if not likely—that there will be efforts to stop enactment via new or existing litigation.

Twilight Hue · Oct 4, 2022

Stonetree said:
........

The Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) was declared “illegal” on July 16, 2021, by a judge in Texas. The court order blocked the immigration authorities from approving new applications for the program. Current DACA recipients are unaffected, and renewals are still being granted.

There you go. All clarified.

Twilight Hue · Oct 4, 2022

F1fan said:
Do you want to share what you think should happen to DACA applicants?

Depends if they behaved while living in this country.

Evangelicalhumanist · Oct 4, 2022

Jayhawker Soule said:
They are typically darker skinned. Left unchecked, they will darken my comfort zone, marry my grandchildren, and, before you know it, I'll find myself with a bunch of ...

wait a minute ..

dang - what cute little grandkids!

Never mind. I have to go change some diapers.

There is one thing that seems (to me, at least) quite undeniable -- many mixed-race children are quite gorgeous, and grow up into very attractive people. Doesn't seem like a bad future for humanity, to me -- to be truly a single human family, and good looking into the bargain.

Stevicus · Oct 4, 2022

F1fan said:
Congress could pass legislation to make DACA a legal program, but hasn't. It's doubtful it would get enough votes in the Senate.

Should DACA be saved?

Yes, although whether or not Congress actually does it is another thing. The whole reason DACA came about in the first place was because Congress and the government as a whole never really formulated a truly coherent immigration plan. Part of the reason is that the political parties and America itself has been quite divided on the whole matter.

If America needs immigrants to come to this country to supplement labor shortages, then that seems a matter of practicality for Congress to pass laws to allow that to happen. If they're here already and working, then get them signed up, registered, and issue a guest worker visa, green card, or whatever it might be called.

On this issue, I think it's way past time for America to either **** or get off the pot.

I don't know the current estimates, but I've heard that there's somewhere between 10-20 million people whose status would be classified as "illegal." We're not deporting them. Even if some hypothetical right-wing government tried to implement some mass deportation, that would definitely see some serious pushback. And the businesses which profit from having an undocumented, under-the-table workforce would also balk. Having them in a position of legal limbo is advantageous for them.

That's why this whole issue kind of ticks me off, since they want to pretend like they're dealing with the issue, but the practical reality is that they really can't, not without some level of economic turmoil and fallout. So, the obvious solution is quite simple: Just make them all legal. Forget screwing around and just do it. At least then they'd be considered legal workers and have all the legal rights and benefits.

If we could at least normalize the process so that people could work here legally, get legal visas and be able to cross the border legally, then that would reduce the amount of illegal border traffic significantly.

F1fan · Oct 4, 2022

Stonetree said:
........

The Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) was declared “illegal” on July 16, 2021, by a judge in Texas. The court order blocked the immigration authorities from approving new applications for the program. Current DACA recipients are unaffected, and renewals are still being granted.

(edit)......
On August 30, 2022, the Department of Homeland Security will issue a new regulation that formally establishes the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) policy. The text was posted on Wednesday, August 24th. This is an effort from the Biden Administration to strengthen the policy, but this rule does not make any changes to who is eligible for DACA, and will not protect DACA from ongoing or future legal challenges.

Ultimately, the final rule mostly reiterates the DACA policy as it already exists. The rule does not reopen DACA for first-time applicants, nor does it change the eligibility requirements. Moreover, unfortunately, the rule is very unlikely to remove the urgent and existential threat to DACA that currently exists in the court.

The rule does not go into effect right away, so DACA recipients should understand that nothing changes for them right now. Not only is there a 60-day period before enactment, but it is entirely possible—if not likely—that there will be efforts to stop enactment via new or existing litigation.

The question is what’s next if the court backs the Texas ruling and DACA is an illegal program.

All 600,000 applicants could face deportation. DACA exists as a way for young migrants who grew up in the USA to stay while a permanent solution is determined by congress. As one conservative has stated this is a non-starter if republicans have the majority. So I take that to mean that republicans oppose granting citizenship to DACA applicants.

is that the position of all conservatives? If so do you really intend to send young people back to a country they don’t consider their home?

F1fan · Oct 4, 2022

Stevicus said:
Yes, although whether or not Congress actually does it is another thing. The whole reason DACA came about in the first place was because Congress and the government as a whole never really formulated a truly coherent immigration plan. Part of the reason is that the political parties and America itself has been quite divided on the whole matter.

If America needs immigrants to come to this country to supplement labor shortages, then that seems a matter of practicality for Congress to pass laws to allow that to happen. If they're here already and working, then get them signed up, registered, and issue a guest worker visa, green card, or whatever it might be called.

On this issue, I think it's way past time for America to either **** or get off the pot.

I don't know the current estimates, but I've heard that there's somewhere between 10-20 million people whose status would be classified as "illegal." We're not deporting them. Even if some hypothetical right-wing government tried to implement some mass deportation, that would definitely see some serious pushback. And the businesses which profit from having an undocumented, under-the-table workforce would also balk. Having them in a position of legal limbo is advantageous for them.

That's why this whole issue kind of ticks me off, since they want to pretend like they're dealing with the issue, but the practical reality is that they really can't, not without some level of economic turmoil and fallout. So, the obvious solution is quite simple: Just make them all legal. Forget screwing around and just do it. At least then they'd be considered legal workers and have all the legal rights and benefits.

If we could at least normalize the process so that people could work here legally, get legal visas and be able to cross the border legally, then that would reduce the amount of illegal border traffic significantly.

One reason for DACA was to offset the fear, uncertainty and anxiety of being deported at any time. Ive read stories of husbands or wives being in the USA without documentation and were deported quickly, leaving kids at home. The lack of clarifying laws, and as you note many aren’t being deported, suggests an arbitrary system at work.

Stevicus · Oct 4, 2022

F1fan said:
One reason for DACA was to offset the fear, uncertainty and anxiety of being deported at any time. Ive read stories of husbands or wives being in the USA without documentation and were deported quickly, leaving kids at home. The lack of clarifying laws, and as you note many aren’t being deported, suggests an arbitrary system at work.

Exactly the problem, and to be honest, I don't think it's really some accident that it remains an arbitrary system where millions and millions of people are in some kind of legal limbo. It's quite advantageous to those who are exploiting them. Those who live in a state of fear, uncertainty, and anxiety - and who could be deported at any time - are easier to control for any unscrupulous party who wishes to benefit from such a purpose.

They deport some, perhaps for political reasons - possibly to show the public that they're doing something about illegal immigration. Once in a while, they might show some business getting busted for employing undocumented workers. But they can't go after all of them.

Valjean · Oct 4, 2022

Twilight Hue said:
That's why they are being shipped to the left-wing sanctuary cities so the left-wing can show everyone in the nation how capable and loving they are.

What "left-wing?"
If Democratically led cities today are left-wing, what hotbeds of radical Communism must even Republican cities have been fifty years ago!

Hold · Oct 4, 2022

F1fan said:
The question is what’s next if the court backs the Texas ruling and DACA is an illegal program.

All 600,000 applicants could face deportation. DACA exists as a way for young migrants who grew up in the USA to stay while a permanent solution is determined by congress. As one conservative has stated this is a non-starter if republicans have the majority. So I take that to mean that republicans oppose granting citizenship to DACA applicants.

is that the position of all conservatives? If so do you really intend to send young people back to a country they don’t consider their home?

.....I voted to save DACA..

......but I don't want the government suggesting we have open borders. Historically immigrants have been an asset, not a liability.

F1fan · Oct 4, 2022

Stonetree said:
.....I voted to save DACA........but I don't want the government suggesting we have open borders. Historically immigrants have been an asset, not a liability.

The good news is there is no such thing as "open borders". That is a right wing Boogeyman phrase. What the USA has is border checkpoints, and migrants can apply for asylum as federal and international law requires. Many thousands are arriving to find a better life. There are more folks once Biden was elected because Trump closed the checkpoints due to Covid. This prevented many thousands from entering for over a year, and the people backed up.

metis · Oct 5, 2022

Shaul said:
This is a false dichotomy. There are other possible alternatives instead of either deportation and blanket naturalization.

With that I agree, as I strongly feel that opening up to more work visas would help both causes.

esmith · Oct 5, 2022

metis said:
With that I agree, as I strongly feel that opening up to more work visas would help both causes.

If you open up more work visas, which I agree with, then you are going to have to stop the influx of illegals crossing the border, correct?

F1fan · Oct 5, 2022

esmith said:
If you open up more work visas, which I agree with, then you are going to have to stop the influx of illegals crossing the border, correct?

This will require certain people in the USA stop referring to migrants as "illegals". This rhetoric is a sort of cultural meme for conservatives, and used for political rhetoric. Will conservtives be willing to give up this vilified group of people and actually support a policy that invites these workers in?

They come in and work as it is, and are crucial to our economy, so it seems just a matter of fitting law to how things work now. If these workers can get visas and don't have to sneak in then it will ease up the work for immigration.

I could see a system where migrants live in Mexico, but come into the USA for periods of time to work.

Still the DACA program needs to be resolved, and pass a law that gives these applicants security and citizenship. If it was 600,000 kids from Europe would there be a hesitancy?

Stevicus · Oct 5, 2022

F1fan said:
This will require certain people in the USA stop referring to migrants as "illegals". This rhetoric is a sort of cultural meme for conservatives, and used for political rhetoric. Will conservtives be willing to give up this vilified group of people and actually support a policy that invites these workers in?

That's an interesting point. I've noticed that there's been a resurgence in the phrase "illegal alien" lately. For quite a while, I noticed people avoiding that phrase and opting for "illegal immigrant" instead, but some people reject that phrasing due to the word "illegal." No human being should be seen as "illegal," and "alien" makes it sound like they come from another planet. Illegal aliens from outer space.

Much of their rhetoric seems to present the idea that they must think they're fighting off some kind of "zombie apocalypse." They see it as an invasion, and they want to build a wall, put more troops on the border - and they want to make sure that everyone has their papers in order, lest they be mistaken for some kind of invading zombie.

Mister Emu · Oct 5, 2022

Absolutely insane to have a formal policy of "use your kids as tools to gain access to America".

To take a page from the Obama book. They should have had more responsible parents.

But, really, it's an untenable situation and I don't see a 'good' way out. I'm far from convinced that in the grand picture placing the future welfare of hundreds of millions of people at stake for the sad folk at the border is actually the greatest moral consideration. That's part of the problem when discussing things with people, most only look at the immediate concerns without looking ahead 50, 100, or 500 years. No one likes to think on scale, they want platitudes like "the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice" which is a damnable lie. Justice, security, a societal framework where proper humanity is observed, etc. are all hard fought realities and there must be a constant struggle to maintain and vigilantly guard those facets of life.

Saint Frankenstein · Oct 5, 2022

Evangelicalhumanist said:
There is one thing that seems (to me, at least) quite undeniable -- many mixed-race children are quite gorgeous, and grow up into very attractive people. Doesn't seem like a bad future for humanity, to me -- to be truly a single human family, and good looking into the bargain.

I have to say, as a biracial person, I find those sentiments offensive. Mixed people are not a monolithic group, we have different cultural backgrounds and there's many ugly biracial people, too. Even with people who have one white and one black parent, we run the gamut from blonde haired, blue eyed and fair skinned all the way to just looking "black". We're just people and not some solution to racism or world peace. Our existence doesn't change anything and we'll never be the majority.

Mister Emu · Oct 5, 2022

Stevicus said:
No human being should be seen as "illegal,"

Case in point. Empty platitude.

Evangelicalhumanist · Oct 5, 2022

Saint Frankenstein said:
I have to say, as a biracial person, I find those sentiments offensive. Mixed people are not a monolithic group, we have different cultural backgrounds and there's many ugly biracial people, too. Even with people who have one white and one black parent, we run the gamut from blonde haired, blue eyed and fair skinned all the way to just looking "black". We're just people and not some solution to racism or world peace. Our existence doesn't change anything and we'll never be the majority.

They certainly were not intended to be offensive, and I'm sorry if you were offended by them.

I am so tired of "racial division" around the world, but especially in the civilized west, my world. I grew up in the Children's Aid, and went to a private school at which I lived with students from all over the world, of every race, colour, creed, height, weight and eye colour, as well as other characteristics such as singing voice, acting ability and orientation to mathematics versus the arts. So that is still how I see the world.

But Americans, and other presumably civilized people, have been focused on their racial hatreds for so long that I become convinced that they'll never go away, and I was trying to express a wish that we would eventually so intermix that it would be impossible to differentiate between each on that basis. Oh, yes, we'd still fight about religion, and whether abstract painting is really and truly art (unlike tearful waifs on black velvet, which are among the lesser art-forms). But at least we'd get rid of one terrible irritant.

Oddly, I'm reminded of a piece of music that I really liked, by an artist I also liked a lot (she sang in Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris). It's called The Pointillist by Elly Stone. It's about a person nobody could find anything to dislike about -- so they hanged him as a pointillist, an art form they didn't think was very good.

Valjean · Oct 7, 2022

F1fan said:
I could see a system where migrants live in Mexico, but come into the USA for periods of time to work.

Just as they used to do. Some would drive in ir walk across the border in the morning and go back home after work.
Now, however, getting in is so difficult, and arrests and deportations so frequent, that nobody goes back to Mexico any more. Once they manage to get here they try to be as invisible as possible.

Of course, this opens the door for exploitation by employers, under threat of deportation.

DACA expected to be ruled illegal

Should DACA be saved, congress pass a law?

Yes

No

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