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Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe Psalms 121:8.Points to an afterlife?

F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe Psalms 121:8.Points to an afterlife?I do.Because of how Psalms 121:8 uses the words From this time forth, and even forevermore.

The bible I am quoting is the king james bible.:)

Psalm 121:8
King James Version

8 The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

I got this right here: Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 121:8 - King James Version
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
It also points to the principle of reincarnation. Reincarnation is the lot of souls until they realize union with their source, God.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said:
Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe Psalms 121:8.Points to an afterlife?I do.Because of how Psalms 121:8 uses the words From this time forth, and even forevermore.

The bible I am quoting is the king james bible.:)

Psalm 121:8
King James Version

8 The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

I got this right here: Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 121:8 - King James Version
Click to expand...
" The bible I am quoting is the king james bible. "

Why not the Catholic Bible, please? Right?

Regards
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
indefinite doesn't work with the Hebrew. The verse ends "v'ahd olam", "until forever".

Screenshot_20221002_195354.jpg


I wonder what they have for Genesis 3:22?
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Your interpretation contradicts Genesis 3:19 , Ecclesiastes 9:5 , Psalms 146:3-4 , etc.

The correct interpretation of the Bible leads to a beautifully harmonious and satisfying understanding.
Incorrect interpretations, which abound, result only in making the Bible indecipherable & confusing.
 
E

Eli G

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
They translate the same word "olam" as "forever" in Gen 3:22, but as "indefinite" in Psalm 121:8. Curious.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/genesis/3/#v1003022
Click to expand...
That Hebrew word ʽoh·lamʹ can be translated in any of both meanings depending on the context. There is an interesting article in our Biblical Encyclopedia about that Hebrew word and others with similar meaning under TIME INDEFINITE, here https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004408
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Eli G said:
That Hebrew word ʽoh·lamʹ can be translated in any of both meanings depending on the context. There is an interesting article in our Biblical Encyclopedia about that Hebrew word and others with similar meaning under TIME INDEFINITE, here https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004408
Click to expand...
Interesting, thank you.

From the link:
For example, the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Law covenant came to an end with Jesus’ death and the bringing in of a new covenant. (Ex 31:16, 17; Ro 10:4; Ga 5:18; Col 2:16, 17; Heb 9:15) And the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Aaronic priesthood similarly came to an end.—Ex 40:15; Heb 7:11-24; 10:1.
​
The justification for translating olam as indefinite is because the law covenant can't be eternal, and the priesthood can't be eternal because that would contradict the Jesus story. Seems like it's changing the original meaning in order to match the later addition.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said:
Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe Psalms 121:8.Points to an afterlife?I do.Because of how Psalms 121:8 uses the words From this time forth, and even forevermore.

The bible I am quoting is the king james bible.:)

Psalm 121:8
King James Version

8 The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

I got this right here: Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 121:8 - King James Version
Click to expand...
" Psalm 121:8 "
Isn't Psalm 121:8 from the Israelite scripture, please, right?
If yes, then one is to quote from the Jewish site please.

Right?
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
dybmh said:
Interesting, thank you.

From the link:
For example, the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Law covenant came to an end with Jesus’ death and the bringing in of a new covenant. (Ex 31:16, 17; Ro 10:4; Ga 5:18; Col 2:16, 17; Heb 9:15) And the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Aaronic priesthood similarly came to an end.—Ex 40:15; Heb 7:11-24; 10:1.
​
The justification for translating olam as indefinite is because the law covenant can't be eternal, and the priesthood can't be eternal because that would contradict the Jesus story. Seems like it's changing the original meaning in order to match the later addition.
Click to expand...
Question: isn't the word meaning hidden, secret
עָלַם
the root word for
עוֹלָם

If so, I can understand how the interpretation of "time indefinite" (from the perspective of humans) might be arrived at.
(Source: blueletterbible)
H5956 - ʿālam - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)
H5769 - ʿôlām - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said: ↑
Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe Psalms 121:8.Points to an afterlife?I do.Because of how Psalms 121:8 uses the words From this time forth, and even forevermore.

The bible I am quoting is the king james bible.:)

Psalm 121:8
King James Version

8 The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

I got this right here: Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 121:8 - King James Version

paarsurrey said: ↑
" The bible I am quoting is the king james bible. "

Why not the Catholic Bible, please? Right?
Frank Goad said:
I like the the king james translation better.:)
Click to expand...
How one likes " King James version" in spite of its many shortcomings, please?:

" Ditzy.52
Protestants only got biblical texts bcse they were preserved by the Catholic Church. Also, Protestant bibles are adapted to protestant theology of which there are TWO! Couldn’t make their minds up it seems. The Tyndale bible was so corrupted that Henry VIII TWICE issued an Edit banning it. The source of all truth for 2000 years is the Catholic Church. Protestantism is only 500 years old!"
Difference Between Catholic Bible and King James Bible | Difference Between
Right?

Regards
 
Last edited:
E

Eli G

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Interesting, thank you.

From the link:
For example, the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Law covenant came to an end with Jesus’ death and the bringing in of a new covenant. (Ex 31:16, 17; Ro 10:4; Ga 5:18; Col 2:16, 17; Heb 9:15) And the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Aaronic priesthood similarly came to an end.—Ex 40:15; Heb 7:11-24; 10:1.
​
The justification for translating olam as indefinite is because the law covenant can't be eternal, and the priesthood can't be eternal because that would contradict the Jesus story. Seems like it's changing the original meaning in order to match the later addition.
Click to expand...
You said: "it's changing the original meaning" like you think both meanings are diferent somehow, but that is not the case. It is only one meaning, but in the Hebrew language. For example: in English you got the word "edge" with a meaning that we Spanish speakers persons can not translate with only one word, we use diferent words depending on the context, like orilla or borde, and we can not use one for the other one in all cases, cause each of them have some peculiarities. In Hebrew they got one word for both meanings, like the English word edge has two meanings in Spanish.

You added: ... in order to match the later addition", and I guess you are trying to accuse somebody (who?) of something (what exactly?), and more important: can you prove that?
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Eli G said:
You added: ... in order to match the later addition", and I guess you are trying to accuse somebody (who?) of something (what exactly?), and more important: can you prove that?
Click to expand...
As @crossfire pointed out, translating olam as "time indefinite" makes sense if one looks to the root meaning of the word. I agreed. Because of this, I revoke my objection, and I thank you for the information.

I still think that olam in the Psalm is better translated using the more common, "forever". But that is my opinion.
 
E

Eli G

Well-Known Member
There is an intermediate point between both meanings of the Hebrew word: when we think of it as the duration of a time that is not known when it will end, which can be forever or simply until the system that surrounds the matter is no longer the same , as in the case of the priesthood in the temple.

Think on the word "always". We know that all human beings "always" die.

But that "always" is limited to this system of things where death dominates humanity. But when death is removed, that "always" no longer applies. However, in our current reality humans always die, even if that always won't last really always.

I need to eat now; I spent all energy my neurons had.:confused:
 
F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Frank Goad said:
Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe Psalms 121:8.Points to an afterlife?I do.Because of how Psalms 121:8 uses the words From this time forth, and even forevermore.

The bible I am quoting is the king james bible.:)

Psalm 121:8
King James Version

8 The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

I got this right here: Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 121:8 - King James Version
Click to expand...

Hockeycowboy said:
Your interpretation contradicts Genesis 3:19 , Ecclesiastes 9:5 , Psalms 146:3-4 , etc.

The correct interpretation of the Bible leads to a beautifully harmonious and satisfying understanding.
Incorrect interpretations, which abound, result only in making the Bible indecipherable & confusing.
Click to expand...

So your saying the translation in the King James Version is wrong?Can you explain why?:)
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Apply all the other Scriptures that relate to death, and come up with a uniform, ie., non-contradicting, explanation.

Consider how Ezekiel 18:4,20 might play into the correct understanding of that verse.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Eli G said:
You said: "it's changing the original meaning" like you think both meanings are diferent somehow, but that is not the case. It is only one meaning, but in the Hebrew language. For example: in English you got the word "edge" with a meaning that we Spanish speakers persons can not translate with only one word, we use diferent words depending on the context, like orilla or borde, and we can not use one for the other one in all cases, cause each of them have some peculiarities. In Hebrew they got one word for both meanings, like the English word edge has two meanings in Spanish.

You added: ... in order to match the later addition", and I guess you are trying to accuse somebody (who?) of something (what exactly?), and more important: can you prove that?
Click to expand...

Eli G said:
There is an intermediate point between both meanings of the Hebrew word: when we think of it as the duration of a time that is not known when it will end, which can be forever or simply until the system that surrounds the matter is no longer the same , as in the case of the priesthood in the temple.

Think on the word "always". We know that all human beings "always" die.

But that "always" is limited to this system of things where death dominates humanity. But when death is removed, that "always" no longer applies. However, in our current reality humans always die, even if that always won't last really always.

I need to eat now; I spent all energy my neurons had.:confused:
Click to expand...

Nicely explained!

(Greetings from Alabama, not too far from Columbus, GA.)
 
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