KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
"Bahai apologist contradicts their own argument" shock!
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Homosexuality and religious.
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
Bree
Active Member
More mealy-mouthed excuses from people attempting to rationalise the homophobia in their religious/personal beliefs.
People are labelled "homophobic" if they express sentiments that are intolerant, prejudicial or discriminatory towards homosexuality or homosexuals.
People who have no opinion on the issue are not homophobes. Even people who say they could never have gay sex because they aren't sexually attracted to the same sex are not homophobes.
If you believe there is something innately "wrong" or "immoral" or "perverted" or "unnatural" about homosexuality, then you are a homophobe.
But don't despair! You can be cured of that psychological illness, with education and open-mindedness.
does anyone tolerate behaviors they disagree with? I dont think so.
And i think you are stretching it to claim mental illness for those who don't tolerate certain sexual acts. Im pretty sure there are some sexual acts that you don't tolerate.
Bree
Active Member
well it certainly hasnt changed my viewpoint
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Isn't it better to just accept that people are different?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
The common ground is that we only share it is a limited sense, because for knowledge we do it differently. And if you understand that differently than me, we have in this case no common ground.
I am trying to show you limited cognitive relativism and how that applies also to knowledge. But your position is that knowledge is in effect X and that we must find common ground. But we can't because we think differently.
Then you demand that I must explain my position to you, but that entails that you think like me. But I can't do that for you, because that is something you must do.
But my point is that for all humanity there is no common ground for what knowledge is, but you demand that there must be common ground and my point is that there is no common ground.
So for you to understand that there is no common ground, you must be willing to accept that there is no common ground. Can you do that or do you believe for all humans for all times there is in effect one correct understanding of knowledge?
Bree
Active Member
Its much better for mankind to all speak in agreement and all be on the same page so to speak.
Imagine if we did then we wouldnt have so much disunity and fighting among ourselves.
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
Good luck with that!
With most religions you get "when you die, this will happen", but love that Bahaism says "in the long-distant future, if something happens, something else might happen".
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
So presumably you go along with everything the Bible says, like the stoning to death of rebellious sons, killing people who work on the sabbath, slavery, etc?
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
The reason for pointing out the homophobia in your religious beliefs is not to "hurt" you. It is to get you to think in a humane, compassionate, logical way. To realise that you are supporting intolerance and prejudice that does harm people, even to the point of taking their own lives.
Why can't you see that? Why do you think its all about you?
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
You seem very confused. It's no more "about sex" than a heterosexual relationship. There is no difference, other than the genders of the individuals.
And are you claiming that heterosexual couples don't need to have sex in order to raise a family?
Bree
Active Member
Im sorry i am no mislead by that twisted logic.
God has given a man and a woman the ability to have a child together. Every child deserves to know its mother and father. Breeding children in testtubes and injecting them into foreign bodies was never intended to be a good way for any human to be brought into the world.
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
Yeah, as usual with some apologists on here, you seem utterly incapable of understanding concepts.
The point is that your "loving, beautiful" god allows huge amounts of terrible suffering that any human with a shred of compassion would stop if they could. But god just watches and shrugs. He clearly doesn't care about the abused child or the baby with cancer or the trafficked sex slaves. The abusers' "free will" is more important that the suffering of the innocent
.
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
So you believe that people who work on the sabbath should be killed, and that slavery is ok, and that brides who aren't virgins should be stoned to death.
Nice "moral framework"!
Bree
Active Member
do you not think that homosexuality harms people?
The people practicing it are harmed by it emotionally. If it was not harmful, there would not be so many suicides. We always hear of famous celebrities for example who have lived secretly as a homosexual for years, hiding their homosexuality and suffering depression and having suicidal thoughts. Think about it. They didnt become depressed and suicidal because everyone was persecuting them because of being homosexual.
Their own inner conscience was condemning them, forcing them into hiding for years. Lying about themselves, lying to themselves, lying to their families. The pain they felt as a 'closet gay' was all coming from within themselves.
Homosexuality is not good for us emotionally and spiritually. This is why God does not want people to practice it. He does love all of us and he does not want to see us hurt ourselves.
Bree
Active Member
those rules applied to the nation of Israel, no one else.
And those rules were taken away at the approriate time. They were for a very specific purpose and time.
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
This is an argument from dishonesty or ignorance. Either way, not a good look.
"Homophobic" means "dislike of or prejudice against gay people, holding negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality".
"Homosexual sex is not good" is a meaningless description. I could describe unsatisfactory sex between two men.
Interesting that homophobes often try to redefine their position as something that it is not. "But I just don't want to have gay sex". Fine. Neither do I. But I fully support the rights of people who do. I consider them no different to heterosexuals. Gay sex and relationships are natural and acceptable in civilised society.
No. I am happy for you to try and explain your reasons for your attitudes towards homosexuality. Unfortunately it usually boils down to "cuz god sez!"
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
So you are fine with the idea and the practice of gay couples living just as heterosexual couples do. Dating, sex, marriage, children, family, etc.
Maybe you aren't a homophobe then?
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
This just illustrates the essentially selfish nature of religious belief. It is all about you, what reward do you get, what punishment can you avoid, and to hell with everyone else (literally!).
Some of us care about others though, especially those who are marginalised, discriminated against, suffer prejudice and hatred simply because of their nature or circumstance.
Bree
Active Member
If i have a phobia, i have an 'excessive extreme, irrational, fear or panic reaction about a situation, living creature, place or object.' according to one definition.
so is it 'homosexuality' or is it 'gay people'?
because the two are entirely different.
Yes, pretty much it is because God said.
You are speaking to christians who have accepted Gods laws. If God said it was ok, then there would not be any problem with it. But there has always been a problem with it even among nations who do not have the bible because it is universally unacceptable. Universal laws stem from within mankinds conscience. They are like the natural laws that tell us murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, rape is wrong. These are universal because when God created us, he designed us in a very particular way. If we step outside of that design, our conscience starts to condemn us and this leads to an internal conflict.
No one can change that because its the way we've been designed.
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
No. Religion teaches you to blindly follow dogma. Things like "virtue", "character", etc are subjective concepts
Calling homosexuality "a shameful aberration" is not humane and caring behaviour towards homosexuals.