Is the United States really a democracy?

Evangelicalhumanist said:

And it could happen in just one state -- Pennsylvania. Running for Governor right now is Doug Mastriano (R), who still denies the 2020 election, and who has declared that he would have reversed the PA vote if he'd been in power. For the record, that would have made Trump President again, with a 7 million vote deficit. Mastriano is even now claiming that he would empower his Secretary of State to be "delegated from me to make the corrections to elections, the voting logs and everything..." And to decertify every voting machine in the state.

See those words? "Corrections to elections, voting logs and everything." That means that if the voters didn't "vote correctly," he would "fix it."

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At the moment he does not have the power to do what he claims he would do. He would immediately be taken to court and his "edicts" would be reversed. But republicans are trying to get a law passed, with the help of their rogue Supreme Court appointees, that would place state legislators beyond the reach of the judiciary, and allow them to appoint any politician to any political position they want, regardless of how the voters voted. And that truly is the end of democracy.

What is surprising to me is how many American voters are OK with them ending 250 years of the democratic republic in favor of a fascist plutocracy.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

"We are far and away the most countermajoritarian democracy in the world," said Steven Levitsky, a professor of goverment at Harvard University.

• Fact: two of the last four Presidents lost the popular vote: both of them Repbulican (George W. Bush and Donald Trump).
• Fact: the power to set government policy is becoming increasingly disconnected from public opinion, often because of unbalanced party affiliation in the Supreme and other superior courts. And because such appointments are for life, this may continue for years or even decades.
• Fact: Senators representing a majority of the American people are often unable to pass bills.
• Fact: a growing movement in one of the country's two political parties (Republican) to refuse to accept defeat in an election.

I am voting that no, the US is not a democracy as I personally understand it. My arguments are above. If you vote "yes," please make your arguments.

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I don't subscribe to the strict view that democracy
is direct voting on all leaders & laws. It's enuf to
have voting for leaders, even if the system is imperfect.

For those who believe we're not a democracy, I ask
them to stand by their conviction, & refuse to vote.
Leave that task to the rest of us.

Exaltist Ethan said:

A Republic is not a dictatorship or a democracy. If the question was, "Is the United States really a republic?" I would have said "Yes".

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Then you have the People's Republic of China.

Certainly not a free country.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

"We are far and away the most countermajoritarian democracy in the world," said Steven Levitsky, a professor of goverment at Harvard University.

• Fact: two of the last four Presidents lost the popular vote: both of them Repbulican (George W. Bush and Donald Trump).
• Fact: the power to set government policy is becoming increasingly disconnected from public opinion, often because of unbalanced party affiliation in the Supreme and other superior courts. And because such appointments are for life, this may continue for years or even decades.
• Fact: Senators representing a majority of the American people are often unable to pass bills.
• Fact: a growing movement in one of the country's two political parties (Republican) to refuse to accept defeat in an election.

I am voting that no, the US is not a democracy as I personally understand it. My arguments are above. If you vote "yes," please make your arguments.

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No, It's a Republic.

The Hammer said:

Yes. But it is falling apart rapidly.

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As it is in most countries, which is sad. Things go in waves, so it will be different in the future.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

"We are far and away the most countermajoritarian democracy in the world," said Steven Levitsky, a professor of goverment at Harvard University.

• Fact: two of the last four Presidents lost the popular vote: both of them Repbulican (George W. Bush and Donald Trump).
• Fact: the power to set government policy is becoming increasingly disconnected from public opinion, often because of unbalanced party affiliation in the Supreme and other superior courts. And because such appointments are for life, this may continue for years or even decades.
• Fact: Senators representing a majority of the American people are often unable to pass bills.
• Fact: a growing movement in one of the country's two political parties (Republican) to refuse to accept defeat in an election.

I am voting that no, the US is not a democracy as I personally understand it. My arguments are above. If you vote "yes," please make your arguments.

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We have aspects of both, which is pretty brilliant, but democracy is decreasing, which is unfortunately not just a problem in our country.

Twilight Hue said:

One look at who exactly those electors are is telling.

Example.... Hillary was one elector , Bill the other.

It's a fixed and now rigged system only open to the elite and privileged in society. Essentially a private voters club that votes for its own members, where the general commoners are completly excluded from ever voting in a president.

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The electors voting are just formalities. It doesn't matter who they are, the Clintons or two nobodies. They just vote as representatives of the number of ceretified votes. Nothing rigged. But the Electoral College is obsolete.

Let's note the electors have to be legitimate. What republicans tried to do in seven states back in 2020 is more than rigging the system, it was fraud sending fake electors, and some are in serious legal trouble, Not democrats, republicans. These republicans tried to cheat, and do so for Trump. There is your danger.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

"We are far and away the most countermajoritarian democracy in the world," said Steven Levitsky, a professor of goverment at Harvard University.

• Fact: two of the last four Presidents lost the popular vote: both of them Repbulican (George W. Bush and Donald Trump).
• Fact: the power to set government policy is becoming increasingly disconnected from public opinion, often because of unbalanced party affiliation in the Supreme and other superior courts. And because such appointments are for life, this may continue for years or even decades.
• Fact: Senators representing a majority of the American people are often unable to pass bills.
• Fact: a growing movement in one of the country's two political parties (Republican) to refuse to accept defeat in an election.

I am voting that no, the US is not a democracy as I personally understand it. My arguments are above. If you vote "yes," please make your arguments.

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No it's a constitutional republic.

Technically we are a constitutional democracy, but we have a wacky system because of the inclusion of the Electoral College, plus also that property itself has representation, such as the Senate.

I don't know...has there ever been a President who wasn't a Freemason?
Democracy implies anyone can become POTUS.
Maybe JFK wasn't...

Evangelicalhumanist said:

I am voting that no, the US is not a democracy as I personally understand it. My arguments are above. If you vote "yes," please make your arguments.

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I answered no because technically, the United States is not a democracy but a Republic, governed by a constitution.

Estro Felino said:

I don't know...has there ever been a President who wasn't a Freemason?
Democracy implies anyone can become POTUS.
Maybe JFK wasn't...

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Not sure, although it appears most Presidents were not Freemasons: List of presidents of the United States who were Freemasons - Wikipedia

Constitutionally, any natural born US citizen age 35 or older can become President.

Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it."
The brevity of that response should not cause us to under-value its essential meaning: democratic republics are not merely founded upon the consent of the people, they are also absolutely dependent upon the active and informed involvement of the people for their continued good health.

We as voters have a duty to filter out the facts from the political adds which now 'till post election will fill the airwaves.

pearl said:

Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it."
The brevity of that response should not cause us to under-value its essential meaning: democratic republics are not merely founded upon the consent of the people, they are also absolutely dependent upon the active and informed involvement of the people for their continued good health.

We as voters have a duty to filter out the facts from the political adds which now 'till post election will fill the airwaves.

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The interesting thing about words like "democratic" and "republic" is that they can be utilized in any number of situations and governmental systems. East Germany was called a "democratic republic." North Korea calls itself a "people's democratic republic." Iran calls itself an "Islamic republic."

Lincoln said (and many still believe this) that the US was a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Considering that talk is cheap and that actions speak louder than words, does it really matter what a government or the politicians say it is? Do they really mean what they say? I agree that the voters have a responsibility to properly vet and examine their candidates - and this is where having good sources of information is a vital component to the whole process.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

"We are far and away the most countermajoritarian democracy in the world," said Steven Levitsky, a professor of goverment at Harvard University.

• Fact: two of the last four Presidents lost the popular vote: both of them Repbulican (George W. Bush and Donald Trump).
• Fact: the power to set government policy is becoming increasingly disconnected from public opinion, often because of unbalanced party affiliation in the Supreme and other superior courts. And because such appointments are for life, this may continue for years or even decades.
• Fact: Senators representing a majority of the American people are often unable to pass bills.
• Fact: a growing movement in one of the country's two political parties (Republican) to refuse to accept defeat in an election.

I am voting that no, the US is not a democracy as I personally understand it. My arguments are above. If you vote "yes," please make your arguments.

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Kindly provide an example of a country you think is a democracy.

Stevicus said:

The interesting thing about words like "democratic" and "republic" is that they can be utilized in any number of situations and governmental systems. East Germany was called a "democratic republic." North Korea calls itself a "people's democratic republic." Iran calls itself an "Islamic republic."

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Yes, but was it so at their founding?

Stevicus said:

Not sure, although it appears most Presidents were not Freemasons: List of presidents of the United States who were Freemasons - Wikipedia

Constitutionally, any natural born US citizen age 35 or older can become President.

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Most of the Founding Fathers were, but only a few presidents were.

My opinion is that at this exact moment in history the U.S. is a democracy, but a very fragile one.

In just a few years this may change.

And the reason for this is so many Americans don't want Democracy. There are many who would rather have a dictator than have to accept the possibility that their political opponents might actually win an election, better not to have elections.

Question to those who voted no.

Do you want America to be a Democracy? Don't you think it is time it becomes a democracy?

Will you be one of the ones fighting for Democracy? Or will you be one of the ones fighting against it?

Not a rhetorical or hypothetical question.

fantome profane said:

My opinion is that at this exact moment in history the U.S. is a democracy, but a very fragile one

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The problem I have with claiming it is currently a democracy is that all our "choices" are not really choices. We get to decide between corporate toady "A" or corporate toady "B" because every candidate is toadying for the corporations that are paying for their campaigns, their bribes, their perks, and their high-dollar after-office jobs corrupting their successors. None of them will represent the voters that voted for them once they get in office because the voters are not paying them millions of dollars to represent them. While the corporate lobbyists are.

So our elections are basically just a bit of democratic theater being put on to keep us all pretending to ourselves that we are a representational democracy, when we are in fact and practice a plutocracy.

We do still have the ability to force our government to revert back to being a representative democracy, but to do so at this point would require an overwhelmingly unified block of voters, and citizens willing to run for public office with that express purpose in mind. And at the present time, the oligarchs have so successfully co-opted the media, the high courts, and divided the people against each other that such a reformation is clearly not possible. Instead, it is very likely that we will continue on our current path to becoming a full on semi-fascist authoritarian plutocracy with no democratic representation of the people, at all. We are very close to being that, even now.