Abrahamic Religious Debate - God, Prophecy & Everything Else

That is the beauty of the Bible, Deut. 32.8. The greatest discoveries in reading the Bible are through one's unique interpretation. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, we are to search the Bible critically, and look at it in new light, for that is when we grow the most.

cvipertooth said:

This is under the assumption that there is a God and obviously, if there is, we have a free will. I don't see many people being struck down by divine lightining bolts everytime they sin.

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That freewill thing bothers me. IF God made them, Adam & Eve perfect and the angels perfect, then they couldn't have deviated towards doing bad. Which is another question. What did they need to know bad for? The answer is obvious. So they could disobey and gove God something to do with His life.

Take the prophecy of the "son of destruction". Poor Judas. God knows he's going to do wrong but doesn't tell his Son Jesus to save him. Just string Judas along till the appropriate time because I Jesus must be killed in order to save the rest. So my Father who is in the heavens has described to me what must and must not be done. Save many, but not all. Incite riots by telling people off to their faces. Get them so angry that they'll just want to kill me.

Then why this scripture?

That "any" should perish. Why didn't Jesus pick someone else? Why didn't he put a different apostle in charge of the money? Jesus see's into peoples minds and knows their motives yet he doesn't lift a finger to save Judas Iscariot. Is this the Ying/Yang that you are talking about, because it sounds like a pretty bum deal. God knows your destiny and he's going to use you to accomplish His purposes. He doesn't wish 'any' to be destroyed, but in 'your' case He's going to make an exception. I guess the word 'repentance' needs to be re-evaluated. Maybe in God's eyes if you're a traitor and you die you've received repentance in His view. But then there's King David. NetDoc reminded me of this because I must have blocked it out. A chosen one acting like an impetuous school boy with a twist. He's King so he can have you killed atop of the prank. What am I talking about? King David steal some guys wife, commits adultery with her and has the husband sent to the front lines of a battle with explicit instructions from the King himself to those who are following the orders to put him in harms way that they make sure he gets killed. What happens? The guy gets killed, David takes the woman as his wife and they have a child. What does God do? He forgives David. But the Law covenant says someone that does all three of those acts should be stoned to death. Why is David pardoned? Because the prophecy of the messiah says he must come from the Davidic line. Royalty gets away with murder. God is contradicting himself and he shows this to everyone around that if you are someone I need to accomplish a goal, I'll break every rule I gave you people to do so, only this is 'divine justice' because I, God, did it! Tell me I'm wrong here!:help:

I'm reminded of

t3gah said:

That freewill thing bothers me. IF God made them, Adam & Eve perfect and the angels perfect, then they couldn't have deviated towards doing bad.

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God didn't ,make them perfect, he introduced them to a world without sin. They ultimately chose the life of sin.

t3gah said:

Which is another question. What did they need to know bad for? The answer is obvious. So they could disobey and gove God something to do with His life.

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It's not the bad, it's knowledge. IF God didn't give you free will then you would have no need for knowledge. Now please tell me you wouldnt rather live without knowledge.

t3gah said:

Take the prophecy of the "son of destruction". Poor Judas. God knows he's going to do wrong but doesn't tell his Son Jesus to save him. Just string Judas along till the appropriate time because I Jesus must be killed in order to save the rest. So my Father who is in the heavens has described to me what must and must not be done. Save many, but not all. Incite riots by telling people off to their faces. Get them so angry that they'll just want to kill me.

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But then, without Judas Jesus may not have fulfilled the prophesies he was to fulfill. Judas played a vital role in our salvation. And he truly believed in God. In a sense, some christians are like Judas. They deny and go against God every day. That doesnt mean they dont have a vital role to play or is doomed.

Then why this scripture?

t3gah said:

That "any" should perish. Why didn't Jesus pick someone else? Why didn't he put a different apostle in charge of the money? Jesus see's into peoples minds and knows their motives yet he doesn't lift a finger to save Judas Iscariot.

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Jesus did not choose Judas, it was is own free will. God only allowed it to happen, knowing it was going to happen and in the end it fulfilled Jesus's purpose.

t3gah said:

Is this the Ying/Yang that you are talking about, because it sounds like a pretty bum deal. God knows your destiny and he's going to use you to accomplish His purposes. He doesn't wish 'any' to be destroyed, but in 'your' case He's going to make an exception.

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First of all, destruction in this sense means eternal destruction. In that case, it rests solely in the individual's faith in Christ. And God's sole purpose is to bring you to him, not put you on a puppet string. The events in your life are a direct reflection of the choices you yourself make, not for the entertainment of God.

t3gah said:

I guess the word 'repentance' needs to be re-evaluated. Maybe in God's eyes if you're a traitor and you die you've received repentance in His view. But then there's King David. NetDoc reminded me of this because I must have blocked it out. A chosen one acting like an impetuous school boy with a twist. He's King so he can have you killed atop of the prank. What am I talking about? King David steal some guys wife, commits adultery with her and has the husband sent to the front lines of a battle with explicit instructions from the King himself to those who are following the orders to put him in harms way that they make sure he gets killed. What happens? The guy gets killed, David takes the woman as his wife and they have a child. What does God do? He forgives David. But the Law covenant says someone that does all three of those acts should be stoned to death. Why is David pardoned? Because the prophecy of the messiah says he must come from the Davidic line. Royalty gets away with murder. God is contradicting himself and he shows this to everyone around that if you are someone I need to accomplish a goal, I'll break every rule I gave you people to do so, only this is 'divine justice' because I, God, did it! Tell me I'm wrong here!:help:

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You are still getting the work of God and the act of man confused. God forgives you for sinning no matter what the sin, but there are still earthly consequences. A murderer may claim that God has forgiven him, but that will not change the judge's sentence. God is not breaking any rules, it is man who breaks the rules and they will fulfill their purpose regardless of the sins they commit themselves. Again, when we sin today there is no direct consequence straight from God . People get off for crimes all the time. Are you going to tell me that this is God's doing? That these people must have had some purpose for God's amusement so God spared them? I dont think so. It is due to faulty trials and our Legal systems, not an act of the Divine.

sorry for the doubled post

cvipertooth said:

sorry for the doubled post

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Eject, eject, eject!

err.. I mean... Delete, delete, delete!

Go to the second post.

Choose Edit.

You'll see a Delete Message option.

Select the appropriate bullet.

Add a reason or don't, it won't be public. I think it goes to the admins only.

Choose Delete Message button and it's gone. Whoosh!

thanks t3gah, I guess i've never had the need for that in my time on religious forums

GOD (Almighty Heavenly Father) said:

OK, got the tree of knowledge of good and bad in the garden of Eden. Created Adam and Eve. Now the test. Which I know they are going to fail. And the knowledge they learn will be beneficial because knowing how to kill, murder, rape, pillage, cheat, defraud, lie, commit incest, sell their bodies and so on will benefit them in a Godly way. Oh and I have a plan ready to go the moment that bad angel does the dastardly deed. And my Son is ready and up for the challenge when we set up Judas as the fallguy. Well, it will be his choice to do it or not do it so I, God, am in the clear as to the guilt part and what else? Oh yes, one day real Christians will circumvent the earth preaching my Kingdom is coming after my Son dies and well, enough pondering for one second. Time to put the command to Adam and leave Eve out of it so Adam will learn to make up his own mind and not listen to his wife over God. And of course I won't give the command to Eve because that would spoil the whole game.

Personal note to self: Must make sure my Son doesn't pick someone else instead of Judas as the 12th apostle. Boy I love being God!

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And then we have us. We humans surely love the 'gift' of life that god has bestowed on us, but why all the heartache? Surely we could have done without knowing all those horrible things! What earthly purpose do we need bad to know that good is the only choice? Without bad there would be only good and then we'd be more Godly like it says in the scriptures. God is love. But then we have jealousy, envy, bigotry, etc. Thanks God, great gift!

I think there is a prophecy that covers this. :sarcastic

I would say no; without the choice of doing 'good' or 'bad' there would be no point in living life, of learning morality, ethics and theology