Body-Shaming of Men

Revoltingest · Sep 6, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
An excuse is different from a mere explanation of context. To not consider the backdrop of a given comment is to leave oneself open to oversimplification and misunderstanding.

I sense rationalizing bigotry towards some
groups by feeling they deserve it.

Attacking women as a group is indeed quite tolerated, albeit with more pushback nowadays (thankfully so). Some could even become multimillionaires and social media celebrities while attacking women or having a history of being sexual predators.

Sexual predators are horrid individuals.
Nonetheless, sexism towards men is more tolerated.

Hillary faced significant amounts of abusive comments about her appearance. With high-profile politicians, it seems that some consider it fair game to use such language even when that means insulting those with the shared traits as "collateral damage."

Trump faced even more criticism for his appearance,
eg, skin color, hair style, weight, age.
A big difference is that there was no backlash against it.

No, but it can explain the motives behind it. (The difference is subtle but still present.)

Good.
We agree that differences don't make such bigotry right.

Debater Slayer · Sep 6, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I sense rationalizing bigotry towards some
groups by feeling they deserve it.

Then you're sensing incorrectly; refer to the last part of my previous post.

Sexual predators are horrid individuals.
Nonetheless, sexism towards men is more tolerated.

By whom? Certainly in some communities, but how representative are those of the general population, including in countries besides the US?

Trump faced even more criticism for his appearance,
eg, skin color, hair style, weight, age.
A big difference is that there was no backlash against it.

Merely criticizing a tweet or comment of Trump's is enough to get you considerable backlash among many of his more ardent supporters. I disagree that there was no backlash; it just wasn't as loud as the backlash against other criticism of him.

Revoltingest · Sep 6, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
By whom? Certainly in some communities, but how representative are those of the general population, including in countries besides the US?

By US society in general.

Merely criticizing a tweet or comment of Trump's is enough to get you considerable backlash among many of his more ardent supporters.

But criticizing Trump's physical features doesn't
appear to cause any backlash. But criticizing
Hillary's raises feminist hackles. And criticizing
Obama's policies gets one called "racist". (As
happened to me on RF.)

I disagree that there was no backlash; it just wasn't as loud as the backlash against other criticism of him.

We must agree to disagree that criticism of
Hillary's appearance was less acceptable
than criticism of Trump's.

Debater Slayer · Sep 6, 2022

Revoltingest said:
By US society in general.

I don't feel informed enough to comment on such a nuance of American society without any data or personal experience to inform my position, so I won't.

But criticizing Trump's physical features doesn't
appear to cause any backlash. But criticizing
Hillary's raises feminist hackles. And criticizing
Obama's policies gets one called "racist". (As
happened to me on RF.)

Criticizing Trump's physical features, or almost anything else about him, raises the hackles of his most ardent followers. I also think it's good that feminist groups called out and criticized some of the abusive comments that were directed at Hillary Clinton based on her appearance and gender.

There's a reason you won't see me mock Trump by calling him "orange man" or the like, but I absolutely don't think that he doesn't have people defending him at every step.

As for Obama, I would again be interested to know how common it was to accuse his ideological opponents of racism. Any high-profile politician has some extremist followers; I'm more interested in how representative they are of the majority.

Revoltingest · Sep 6, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
Criticizing Trump's physical features...raises the hackles of his most ardent followers.

I've not seen that.

I also think it's good that feminist groups called out and criticized some of the abusive comments that were directed at Hillary Clinton based on her appearance and gender.

But feminists are quite silent about abusive comments
about Trump's & other male politicians' appearance.

There's a reason you won't see me mock Trump by calling him "orange man" or the like, but I absolutely don't think that he doesn't have people defending him at every step.

As for Obama, I would again be interested to know how common it was to accuse his ideological opponents of racism. Any high-profile politician has some extremist followers; I'm more interested in how representative they are of the majority.

In summary, I see much bigotry from ostensibly
progressive/liberal/feminist people. The body
shaming of men is just one facet.
It would be nice if their sense of civility & tolerance
towards some groups were applied to all.

Twilight Hue · Sep 7, 2022

Heyo said:
Because people are superficial. Visual traits are easy and immediate targets. When Trump ran for office, the size of his hands was a target because it was an easy target. Since we know him better, it has become obsolete as there are more profound flaws to point to.

Like his orange hair! Heh.

Revoltingest · Sep 7, 2022

Twilight Hue said:
Like his orange hair! Heh.

Lefties loved to mock Trump's hair.
But can you imagine the outcry if righties mocked Obama's
"nappy" hair? Strikes me as quite hypocritical.

Twilight Hue · Sep 7, 2022

Revoltingest said:
Lefties loved to mock Trump's hair.
But can you imagine the outcry if righties mocked Obama's
"nappy" hair? Strikes me as quite hypocritical.

If only Imus was alive.....

Debater Slayer · Sep 8, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I've not seen that.

But feminists are quite silent about abusive comments
about Trump's & other male politicians' appearance.

All movements have a primary focus, and the primary focus of feminism is women's rights. It doesn't have to talk about all problems under the sun.

Nevertheless, feminists aren't monolithic, and there are many who speak against all kinds of body-shaming regardless of the targets' gender. (I strive to be among that subset of feminists.)

In summary, I see much bigotry from ostensibly
progressive/liberal/feminist people. The body
shaming of men is just one facet.
It would be nice if their sense of civility & tolerance
towards some groups were applied to all.

This is also true of any large movement. You'll never find one that doesn't have some bigoted, hateful, or otherwise problematic elements. The most important thing is what their ratio is to the movement as a whole.

Revoltingest · Sep 8, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
This is also true of any large movement. You'll never find one that doesn't have some bigoted, hateful, or otherwise problematic elements.

I addressed a pervasive predilection.
It's not just some random shortcoming.
It says something about the group that's germane to the OP.
It shouldn't be dismissed as "well, every group has some imperfections".
Acknowledge.
Overcome.

Debater Slayer · Sep 8, 2022

Revoltingest said:
I addressed a pervasive predilection.
It's not just some random shortcoming.
It says something about the group.
It shouldn't be dismissed as "well,
every group has some imperfections".
Acknowledge.
Overcome.

I don't see it as pervasive as you do. Perhaps we have interacted with different types of feminists.

Revoltingest · Sep 8, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
I don't see it as pervasive as you do. Perhaps we have interacted with different types of feminists.

On RF & Ameristan for me.
But another possibility is that you identify as a feminist,
& therefore belong to the group. I'm an egalitarian,
which is broader than feminism, but would also include
many flavors of it. So I lack attachment to it. Tis a
different perspective, which affects what is seen.

Shiranui117 · Sep 13, 2022

I will freely admit that, when I'm driving and see someone kicking a muscle car or truck or motorcycle into obnoxiously high gear on a sleepy suburban road, my reaction every time is to shout "Tiny penis!". Not because I care about what size they may or may not actually be, but because they're clearly trying to overcompensate for something by showing off so unnecessarily.

If you ask me, it's not the size of the thing that should be shamed, but some people's insecurity and resultant incessant need to compensate for it in the most annoying ways possible for those around them.

I don't fat-shame, but a lot of dudes (and people in general) have a very unhealthy weight and diet and should make lifestyle changes to improve their hygiene, physical+mental health, and overall quality of life.

Saint Frankenstein · Sep 13, 2022

RayofLight said:
I do not get why folk give a crap about penis size. It's a weird thing to obsess over.

Then again I'm asexual. But either way I agree with you it shouldn't be associate with personality traits and morals

It tends to mean more to men than women. It's because men view their twig and berries as the physical embodiment of their masculinity. There comes a point, sexually, where having a large penis is a liability for both partners. Women don't obsess over penises half as much as men do.

Saint Frankenstein · Sep 13, 2022

Shaul said:
Another item of male body shaming is short stature. It doesn’t apply to me personally, but I know some men who are shorter than average. It does seem to be gender centric. Although females face some body shaming based on shortness it is AFAIK worse for shorter males.

Yes, that's true. One of my coworkers is about 5'2" and he obviously has a huge amount of insecurity over it and mentioned women not wanting guys his size.

Saint Frankenstein · Sep 13, 2022

Erebus said:
As @The Hammer pointed out, ideas about what size a man's penis should be are often dictated by culture. Today, the perception is "the bigger the better" but this seems to mainly be the view of heterosexual men. I suspect that one reason for that is that heterosexual men generally don't see other men's penises outside of porn. While I don't want to derail the thread into debating the pros and cons of porn, I do think that the tendency for male pornstars to have enormous penises probably gives heterosexual men a skewed perception on what the ideal size should be.

So you have plenty of men who generally only see pornstar sizes and you know what pornstars do... they have sex with dozens, if not hundreds, of gorgeous women. I think it's easy to forget that the people in those videos are being paid for a job. You could have the biggest snake in the world but it's probably not going to be much help in actually forming a relationship with a woman. That's a sore spot for a lot of men these days, with the incel movement being a particularly extreme example of it.

The result is that if you want to insult a man without having to put too much thought into it, tell him he has a small penis.

The reasons for this type of body shaming being considered more acceptable are a bit more complicated but I'll give my thoughts on what I consider to be the main one.

Since most people don't walk around naked, the person giving the insult probably has no idea how big their target's penis actually is. That means it's the reaction to the insult that's the most telling. Getting offended or calling the insult out as body shaming is going to be taken as proof that yes, this guy really does have a small penis. The best bet is to laugh it off.

Men can't actually talk seriously about this subject without giving the impression that they're undersized. They have to turn it into a joke if they want to avoid further insults. It's not body shaming, it's just playful banter and anybody who feels self-conscious as a result obviously deserves to feel self-conscious. Since people who aren't heterosexual men typically find the obsession with size kind of bemusing, they're also likely to see the whole thing as a joke too.

They lie about penis size in porn and use certain angles and other tricks to make it look bigger than it is. They will also pair tall (6'+) males with petite females to make it look bigger. It's rather silly. No one should think porn is for real. They're doing the acts, but it's still "fake".

Shiranui117 · Sep 13, 2022

Saint Frankenstein said:
Yes, that's true. One of my coworkers is about 5'2" and he obviously has a huge amount of insecurity over it and mentioned women not wanting guys his size.

Being smaller-size is a great advantage in a fight if you're agile and quick enough to get past their reach and get into grappling range; you have a lower center of gravity which makes it easier for you to throw/trip them and makes it harder for vice-versa. Their longer limbs makes it harder for them to counter-grapple as well.

All about knowing how to use what you got.

Revoltingest · Sep 13, 2022

Shiranui117 said:
I will freely admit that, when I'm driving and see someone kicking a muscle car or truck or motorcycle into obnoxiously high gear on a sleepy suburban road, my reaction every time is to shout "Tiny penis!". Not because I care about what size they may or may not actually be, but because they're clearly trying to overcompensate for something by showing off so unnecessarily.

If you ask me, it's not the size of the thing that should be shamed, but some people's insecurity and resultant incessant need to compensate for it in the most annoying ways possible for those around them.

I don't fat-shame, but a lot of dudes (and people in general) have a very unhealthy weight and diet and should make lifestyle changes to improve their hygiene, physical+mental health, and overall quality of life.

Why automatically presume that inadequacy is
the sole cause of fast driving? It can be fun.
Also, feelings of inadequacy can stem from
many factors other than size of one's roscoe.
If a women feels inadequate, is it because
their hoohah is too small...or too something?
Or dingus envy?

People are too quick to define others in terms
of genitalia.

Body-Shaming of Men

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian

Debater Slayer

Vipassana

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian

Debater Slayer

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Revoltingest

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Twilight Hue

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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

Debater Slayer

Vipassana

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian

Debater Slayer

Vipassana

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian